Voting is worthless in California

[phattonez]

Let's say you give money to a charity that wants to build a school. Instead, they use that money to pay a water bill. Would you feel cheated? That's almost exactly what's happening in California. Voters approved more than $1 billion in loans for transit projects, and instead, that money is being used for state debts, yet for some reason, people aren't getting mad. WTF? Why should I vote when something like this happens?

[DarkDragoonX]

Voting is worthless.

Ah, that's much more accurate. That kind of bullshit happens everywhere, not just California. Hell, the federal government has been dipping into social security funds for HOW long now?

At this point, we vote every so often so that we can feel all warm and fuzzy, then the politicians go do whatever they want anyway.

[phattonez]

The problem is that people don't know that their money is not being spent the way that they wanted it to be spent. Once everyone knows, then they will not reelect the people who are changing the purposes of that money. Until they know, we're stuck with the same people. We need to educate people about what happens with their money.

[Beldaran]

Eventually the United States will collapse under the weight of it's own intellectual incompetence and will be supplanted by bigger and better emerging free market economies.

[DarkDragoonX]

The problem is that people don't know that their money is not being spent the way that they wanted it to be spent. Once everyone knows, then they will not reelect the people who are changing the purposes of that money. Until they know, we're stuck with the same people. We need to educate people about what happens with their money.

This requires that people desire to be educated, which by and large they don't. When it comes down to either learning about financial realities and deciding who to vote off the goddamn island, guess which one the average joe seems to go for? I mean, do you really think that all these people who plunge themselves into credit card debt really give two shits what their government is really up to?

[Trevelyan_06]

I'm with Dark on this. Most of this country can't be bothered to turn off thier damned reality shows and actually learn something. Coupled with that is this countries obession with blaming other people. There is such a complete abandoment of personal responsibility in this country it's ridiculous.

Spill a cup of coffee on your lap. Should you cuss yourself out for being stupid and trying to hold it in between your legs? Hell no! Sue the place you got it from because there wasn't a warning on this beverage that is typically served HOT informing you that it is in fact HOT, and not to burn your stupid ass on it.

Given this I think it's no wonder nobody bothers keeping up with wether or not the things they voted for are actually taking place. People go out and vote so they can get the sticker and fell good about themselves. Once that's done they shouldn't have to keep track of what's going on. Isn't that someone else's job? They're taking valuable time away from thier TV watching just to go out and vote in the first place, how dare you expect them to take the time to follow current events. Shame on you all. Shame on you.

[Starkist]

Voting is worthless everywhere. In my old hometown, the school spent taxpayer money to put up a bond for vote. It failed to achieve the necessary 60% approval rating (which was about a dozen votes or something, small town) so they used more tax money, and teachers took school time to promote, a revote. It won this time.

When you vote for president, you are getting to choose between two candidates who have been chosen and vetted by the establishment. Our last presidential election was a choice between a former Yale 'C' student and member of Skull and Bones... and another.

Here in Washington, the legislature and the governor pushed hard for a $0.09 tax increase for every gallon of gas. They vehemently opposed a citizens initiative to repeal the tax, using many taxpayer dollars in the process. They proclaimed that the tax was necessary to fix several areas of roads, mostly in Seattle, that would collapse and endanger the public safety if left unchecked.

The initiative barely failed. The gas tax stands. Now that same legislature and governor are pushing for more taxes to fix these emergencies. You see, they have already spend the gas tax on other projects.

Voting is promoted as a civic duty, the privilege of a free American. It is just sham though. Throw the people a bone and make them feel like they are part of the political process. If our leaders are incompetent, blame the people for voting them in rather than the bureaucratic machinery who selected them.

[phattonez]

With what's happening now, I now understand why so many do not vote in elections. What's the difference, their money is going to be stolen and those in power are going to do whatever they want with it no matter what.

[Beldaran]

Voting is worthless everywhere. In my old hometown, the school spent taxpayer money to put up a bond for vote. It failed to achieve the necessary 60% approval rating (which was about a dozen votes or something, small town) so they used more tax money, and teachers took school time to promote, a revote. It won this time.

When you vote for president, you are getting to choose between two candidates who have been chosen and vetted by the establishment. Our last presidential election was a choice between a former Yale 'C' student and member of Skull and Bones... and another.

Here in Washington, the legislature and the governor pushed hard for a $0.09 tax increase for every gallon of gas. They vehemently opposed a citizens initiative to repeal the tax, using many taxpayer dollars in the process. They proclaimed that the tax was necessary to fix several areas of roads, mostly in Seattle, that would collapse and endanger the public safety if left unchecked.

The initiative barely failed. The gas tax stands. Now that same legislature and governor are pushing for more taxes to fix these emergencies. You see, they have already spend the gas tax on other projects.

Voting is promoted as a civic duty, the privilege of a free American. It is just sham though. Throw the people a bone and make them feel like they are part of the political process. If our leaders are incompetent, blame the people for voting them in rather than the bureaucratic machinery who selected them.

This is an excellent description of what happens. Maybe I have nothing to add to this topic, but I felt like emphasizing the points above. They illustrate why we do not live in a democracy, but rather a sort of fascist corporatocracy in which big money talks and good people walk.

[AtmaWeapon]

Ahahaha I wish I could do things like that.

"Gee, I wonder how I'll pay off all these debts I have? I know, I'll take out a loan! Then I will take out a loan to pay the loan!"

[Glenn the Great]

Voting is promoted as a civic duty, the privilege of a free American. It is just sham though. Throw the people a bone and make them feel like they are part of the political process. If our leaders are incompetent, blame the people for voting them in rather than the bureaucratic machinery who selected them.

I've been pushing this point and others mentioned in the topic since High School. I even got chastised for my stance by my Civics teacher in front of the whole class. Can't tell you how relieved I am to see that others are realizing this truth.

[Aegix Drakan]

This thread is spot on.

And evne if the candidates aren't all pre-selected for the voters, then ther eis still the one underlying fact that no matter who you vote for, they're all gonna try to take advantage of you.

Here in Quebec, We have a constant problem going on. We have two primary governing parties that ususally bounce back and forth. Teh Liberals and the PQ. There are a couple other parties, but they aren't too huge. then there is the up and comcing party, the ADQ.

Vote for the pq: They try to drive Quebec to separate from Canada, and they generally make a mess of things.
Vote for the Liberals: They promise to mop up th emess, and then, when they get elected, leave the mess there, or take YEARS cleaning it up.
and then there id the ADQ, which is comprised of a group of people with little to no experience.

...So nothing ever gets done here, or if it does get done, it takes forever.

I actually considered a carrer in politics at some point, to try to change this, but...I found out that they don't like idealists. They like people who are going to help them rob the people blind. -_-


But still, a cheating govermnent is better than no government. Under anarchy, we'd be in deep shit in no time at all.

[firebug]

For the most part, I agree completely with most everyone on this topic. There is no true democracy. Even if there was it wouldn't work anyway, because when you get a bunch of people who all have an equal say, all you get is a bunch of people yelling louder to be heard over the mess. It's a faulty system from the start. Not to mention the fact that in a democracy, majority rules. The majority of people are stupid. You do the math.


But still, a cheating govermnent is better than no government. Under anarchy, we'd be in deep shit in no time at all.

I don't understand this. it sounds like propaganda. Is this what Canada tells it's citizens? Let me enlighten you just a little bit.
Anarchy is not real. Much like Marxist communism, It's a human fantasy.
Reality tells us that when two or more people congregate together, they naturally create 'family units', 'tribes' and 'villages'. People are social animals, just like wolves and horses. There is no escaping that. The moment you get a man and a woman together and they create a family, you have a government. No matter how rudimentary or simple, it is a form of government.
So your quote makes no sense to me. There will always be government, even if it is nothing but small government and family-run businesses. Any government that tells you it's the ONLY one, and that without it you would have anarchy is LYING to you.
Any government which does not LIE or CHEAT it's people is better than a government that does.
Strangely (to me at least) the majority of lying cheating governments are big ones. It seems the more space you have to govern, the less you care about the people within. There is a logical solution to this. The question is... Does anyone have enough empathy anymore to push for change?
Or is apathy the norm now?

[Glenn the Great]

Anarchy is a non-concept. It can't exist when multiple people are put together. If there is no "official" government, there will be unofficial de facto governments.

Nothing but complete interpersonal isolation will stop humans from imposing their wills on one another, which is essentially the function of a government.

[Aegix Drakan]

:shrug: So I guess I was wrong. I forgot about the minor induvidual "governments".

Also, most peole who really want to push for change will be ignored. Why? Because apathy IS the norm. People would rather complain about the shitty government they already have, than have to work to create a better system. they have more important things to do, like watch Oprah, Dr, Phil and the oh-so-important American Idol. (blech)

Also:

The majority of people are stupid. You do the math.

I back this quote 100%.

[phattonez]

^^Except for you of course.

Here's something you should go for. The majority of people may not be stupid, but more often then not they do not have the best answer.

[Glenn the Great]

^^Except for you of course.

Here's something you should go for. The majority of people may not be stupid, but more often then not they do not have the best answer.

The majority of the people are stupid, though.

[Aegix Drakan]

^^Except for you of course.

Well...there are many subjects in which I believe I fall into that category...

I am not afraid to admit that there are many times where I AM an idiot.

but...I just try not to be. Best anyone can do really. Unless they're Beldaran.

[phattonez]

I'm just pointing out that the majority of people here say that the majority of people are stupid. I don't think that the public is that stupid, they're just misinformed.

[Glenn the Great]

And I think you are naive, and a fine candidate for being part of the Stupid Mass, as evidenced by your conservepublican standpoints.

[Starkist]

Conservative Republicans are few and far between these days. The former conservatives are competing with liberal Democrats now to see who can spend more money and who can sell our sovereignty the fastest.

There are stupid, ignorant people on all sides of politics. I am more concerned with the idiots on the left because they usually advocate more government interference, rather than less.

[phattonez]

This just in: all Republicans are idiots because Glenn says so.

Really, what is so stupid about being conservative? Yes, I'm conservative because of my family, but it's for a pretty good reason. I've been to where they came from and I don't want our country to look anything like that and I don't want government interference. Now tell me, how is that naive?