Let's talk Sonic.

[Anthus]

I typed this up last night out of boredom. It was posted as a Blog on my MySpace, but I'm posting it here just to see what the fellow gamer thinks...




I typed this up becuae I'm bored. I'm also a fan of video games, and Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic's rocky road has inspired me to generally bitch about it.

If you fancy brightly colored anthropomorphic animals, and a self proclaimed evil genius with an un-canning resemblance to an egg, then you've probably heard of the Sonic the Hedgehog series. I've been a fan of Sonic since I played Sonic 2 waaaaay back at my aunt's house on my cousin's Sega Genesis. I'd say I was probably five or six. At that time, I could never manage to get past the Oil Ocean though…

So yeah, I've been following the series for quite some time. Even though my exposure was limited unlike with Mario etc, I still liked the games for their simplicity, and simple fun of running really fast through loops and down hills. When Sonic entered the 3D realm he got a stumbling start, and limped out before he was shot dead by shit stains such as Shadow's game, and that other one with lots of CG pre-rendered crap, and some silver guy from the future. I like the Adventure games, and Sonic Heroes well enough to not label then as shit stains… If that's saying a whole lot.


Though I agree with the camera problems (though they're pretty minor, and insignificant… most of the time) there is something I never understood about another complaint; something along the lines of "I can put down the controller and watch the game play itself"… Okay…. people. You act like you had so much more control over Sonic on loops, and down hills in the 2D games. If anything you had less control, because you were limited to forwards, and backwards, and you couldn't move left or right. I'm not defending the 3D games, but I am saying that some complaints are stupid.


So, automation isn't a real complaint in my book. All of this is null'd by the fact that the jerky controls/ special moves, poor, and borderline unprofessional stage design, trial and error situations (see: Sonic Heroes), and generic, crappy, un-Sonic elements are added together to create these horrid games. Why do I like the adventure games still? In spite of all the extra "innovative" crap, Sonic's/ Shadow's/ Tails' (SA1) stages are still somewhat entertaining. Even when mixed with the hunting and shooting stages, they still shine forth and give us a shallow glimps of what a good 3D Sonic may be like.


Sonic Heroes is a step in the right direction, but it is far from perfect. It brings back the traditional "Two stages, boss, special stages get Chaos Emerald" set up of the 2D predecessors. There are no more hunting and shooting stages. However, it seems that Sega can't stay away from experimental gimmicks since you now control three characters. The stage set up is also pretty basic (but this is a good thing… kinda…) You generally start out on a large hill, or straight away followed by some jumps enemies… blah, blah, blah. Sounds good, but the stages are designed very poorly, and are down right buggy in some cases (There are points in the Seaside Hill Zone where you can walk right through the large stone steps, and fall to your death). When you actually need something to be automatic, we'll use Rail Canyon Zone as an example: When you are launched from something, you often times miss the next rail even if you try to land on it. It is pretty hit or miss with when you should, or shouldn't touch the joy stick while air-borne). One of my favorite stages has to be Casino Park Zone. It is a throw back to Sonic Spinball, and the Casino Night Zone from Sonic 2. It's pretty cool, and for the most part, not buggy. Sonic Heroes feels rushed in my opinion. It could have been a great game… But, it's not so much.


Next up is Shadow the Hedgehog. I guess Sega thought that by adding unnecessary vehicles, and guns that it would make this game good. You'd think they would have learned not to add gimmicky crap to a Sonic game… Guess not. Honestly, I have not had the misfortune of playing this game, so it's probably unfair for me to judge it too harshly, but from what I've seen, and heard (and I've seen and heard a lot) it looks like it is shit in a game case… It seems like Sonic Heroes with twice the fail, and half the effort.


Sonic Riders… Played it briefly… I haven't really played it enough to get a good feel for it, since it is a straight forward racing game, which I'm not really a fan of anyway. It actually seemed okay though.


Sonic the Hedgehog, for the PlaySatan3, and Xbox 360. I played it for all of two minutes at GameStop. This game, again, takes some new characters, and complex time twisting plot and attempts to apply it to Sonic. It still boils down to "Eggman taking the Chaos Emeralds, oh lawd, get them back!". Read the paragraph about Sonic Heroes, and multiply everything by enough to make you wanna crawl into a hole, and die. And DIE. Like the series has after this.


Or has it? Even though the 3D Sonic games have raeped what's left, the 2D GBA/ DS/ PSP games have proven quite faithful to the original formula, and remained entertaining. Sonic Advance 1, and 2 are probably the best of the Advance series. Advance 3 is okay, but it borrows the multi-character combo from SH. It is still a pretty good game though. It's arguably the most difficult of the Advance games, that's for sure. Maybe because the level design is somewhat lacking. You'll find yourself missing jumps, and falling for a good bit, a lot. Sonic Rush (DS) was also good. Even though it had a generic character (from the future) it was still good enough. Its stage designers must have been sober, or a new group was hired, because the hit or miss trial and error stages from SA3, and SH are gone. Sonic Rivals (PSP) also looks promising. It is 3D, but it is side scrolling (like the boss stages in Rush). I've yet to try it, but I think it is a racing themed game. I'll still try it though. Some day…


One last game…. Sonic and the Secret Rings. Let's ignore the incredibly corny story, and look only at the game play. For once, a gimmick has worked out for the better. This game still has problems (Like moving backwards, and sometimes, the Wiimote isn't as responsive as it should be with timing jumps, or so I've read). The controls are basic, once again. You are almost constantly moving along a preset "track". You can steer left and right, and jump. I've yet to play the game, but it looks good so far (GAMEPLAY wise. The story is shit).


I've rambled on enough about Sonic. I have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night, so I took some time to write this little review of Sonic in general. I hope you enjoyed reading this, or something. Yes, I really have no life, or nothing better to do then ramble on about Sonic. So… yeah. Don't get me started on the Legend of Zelda (I could write volumes about the timeline, or why it is simply awesome), or why Sony eats ass.


So, for any Sonic fans out there, what do you think about the series so far?

[The_Amaster]

Eh, Sonic 3 & Knuckles will always hold my love. Although I have enjoyed the Adventure games, I still like Sonic better in 2-D.

(Oil Ocean, eckh, I kept falling into thick, viscous oil and drowning. Although the green platforms and round shooty things were fun)

[Glenn the Great]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles was the last Sonic game I enjoyed.

[Anthus]

Oh, I forgot about those two. I love Sonic 3, and Sonic and Knuckles. It is probably my favorite. I have them on Mega Collection, though I never owned them for Genesis.

I've also never played Sonic CD, but I think I'd like it.

[The_Amaster]

Definatly pick up CD if you can. CD and 3&K are probably my two top Sonic games, period.

[mrz84]

After reading that, I noticed that he said nothing about Sonic Battle. That or I missed reading it. But anyways, I can agree with some of the things he said, but I must disagree on some since I have not played some of the games he mentioned (SonicHeroes, Sonic Rivals, most of the new stuff from the past 3 years) :kitty:

[Aegix Drakan]

I'm a sonic fan. an incurable sonic fan.

I've played a lot of sonic, and I still have hope for the spiky blue guy.

Here's my thoughts on the sonic game I had the most experience with:

Sonic 3 + knux: oh man... sonic at its best. Three separate characters, insanely fun special stages, awesome level design, and above all, Super sonic, super tail, super knux, hyper sonic, and hyper knux...PLAYABLE IN REGULAR PLAY OUTSIDE OF THE FINAL BOSS. I don't know why Sega never allowed us to do that again...

Sonic adventure 1: Sonic in 3D. The speed levels were fun, the emerald hunting was ok, and big's fishing was... >_> So bad there is no word to describe it. Generally a good game.

Sonic adventure 2: Best 3D sonic game I've played as of yet. The shooting stages are annoying, but the rest is really well done.

Shadow: Meh, it's pretty fun, but the story could have been made SO much better it's not funny. And also, the close range weapons + homing attack + basic attacks were almost useless in actual gameplay.

Heroes: >_< Ugh...It bugged up on me so much, it's not funny. when I die 30 + times trying to land on the exact same rail...there is a problem. also, the team idea was poorly implemented, In my opinion.

Sonic Riders: An excellent racing game. the only thing missing is a difficulty setting option. When you start, the game is extremely hard, almost brutal. After you've mastered it, it's almost too easy.

Advance 1: Pretty fun, good for road trips and such. I whip it out every now and again.

Advance 3: I found it fun, but gathering the chao and the emeralds (with no walkthrough whatsoever) is such a hassle it's not fun at all. And I accidentally erased my save data so... >_<

Sonic Rush: Ok, I haven't gotten that far yet, but MAN is it awesome. Super fast speed, incredibly fun special stages, and the trick system that I loved from advance 3...it's really a good game.


I know that next gen is totally horrible, and other stuff, but I think our favourite blue hegdgehog can still pull through and make a couple of good games.

...

and now, if anyone want to flame me for my opinion, *gives out free flamethrowers*

[4matsy]

I declare S3&K the supreme and instant winner of this thread.

[The_Amaster]

Actually, knowing now that we are really allowed to give games 10s, and that it's not just some abstract, impossible score, I'm seriously considering going back and changing my review score to 10.

[DarkDragoonX]

S3&K and Sonic CD are the two crowning jewels of the series. Sonic Rush is the only modern Sonic title I've enjoyed.

I pretty much stay away from nearly everything sonic-related these days.

[Gerudo]

I had my issues with RUSH, but overall a great game. S3&K was a blast, obviously since you can play with all 3 of the star characters of the series.

The Advance series was well executed, imo. Classic 2D Sonic gaming on a portable device ftw. Of the 3, Sonic Advance 2 was my favorite. Unless you were completely terrible (or sucked at the boss battles), it was impossible to die in that game. Plus the music in 2 was very memorable (again, imo).

I can't say I've honestly liked ANY of the 3D incarnations of the Sonic series (RUSH doesn't count).

One last note, I can't bring myself to enjoy CD. I have the Gems collection, but everytime I force myself to play it, it just... sucks. Yes I know it's the same as the Genesis games, but the Past/Present/Future shit just annoys me. Maybe it's the level design... *shrugs*

[The_Amaster]

but the Past/Present/Future shit just annoys me


Well, sure, that's the fun of it. And I agree, although I've only played/own SA2, it was a really good game. Sonic really just belongs in 2-D.

[Glenn the Great]

The only reason I ever liked Sonic (and I liked it a lot), was because of the 2D format on the Genesis. I played the first Sonic Advance, but it seemed to be lacking the spirit of the Genesis games. I wasn't too impressed with the levels either. Also kind of retarded to throw in two super easy classic boss fights at the end who only take 4 hits. I don't think I liked the art style too much. Didn't have the same sort of crispness as the older ones.

[Dechipher]

Everyone agrees, the first three sonic and their knuckles counterparts rule. I liked Sonic 3D blast, because it was fun, and yeah it was kinda lame, but I had a good time with it. SA2 Battle is the only 3D sonic I had, and I traded it for Sonic Mega Collections. SA2B was fun with my little brother, doing the shooting matches, but that's about it. It sucked so bad that the most awesome character (knuckles) had the lamest stage gimmick.

EDIT and Sonic, Knuckles AND Tails better be in SSBB...

[DarkDragon]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the epitome of the franchise in my opinion.
Sonic CD was also quite good, but doesn't share S3&K's near-perfect level flow; you are always hunting around for "Past" signs and spewing profanities when hitting "Futures."
Sonic 1 and 2 were solid.
Everything else has left me feeling majorly disappointed. Sega has apparently decided that it needs to ruin all of its 3D games by throwing extreme bullshit into an otherwise solid experience: Treasure hunting, Big the Cat, Chao?!? WTF?

[Pineconn]

Yep, Sonic 3&K is pretty much the best.

I've played 1, 2, and Spinball for the Genesis, and Sonic 3D Blast for... whatever it's for (emulator), and it was all right. Oh, and I've played Adventure 1, and it isn't bad either... but not very polished... at all. Too buggy for my taste. But the cut scenes looks very nice, too bad the whole game couldn't look like that.

So have we agreed that Sonic does best as a 2D series? I've heard that Secret Rings feels like a 2D Sonic game, so it's probably pretty good.

[Darth Marsden]

I'm gonna agree with everyone else on this - the 2D games rule, the 3D ones don't, the psuedo-2D Secret Rings kicks ass.

Also: Don't (http://www.s2beta.com/forums/index.php?showforum=13) forget (http://info.sonicretro.org/Hacks) Rom (http://www.sonicresearch.org/index.php) hacks (http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showforum=63).

[DarkFlameWolf]

I have Secret of the Rings on Wii. Its a major step forward in the right direction, but play control is a bit stiff and the difficulty is highly ramped from the original 2d games. It seems like, ever since the transition to 3d, They Sonic team feels they need to make each game brutally hard.

[Darth Marsden]

Yes, but at least most of the difficulty in Secret Rings is intentional as opposed to the game just being broken.

[The_Amaster]

I played the first Sonic Advance, but it seemed to be lacking the spirit of the Genesis games


I would recomend at least trying SA2 than. I know what you mean, and while Advance 2 isn't perfect, it's better than 1. The levels are a lot larger, for one thing, with many routes through each one.

I also owe S3&K for being my introduction to platformers. Believe it or not, back when I was like, ten, I picked up the official PC version at Office Max for like, ten bucks.

[Darth Marsden]

Also: SPEED. Not only can you go through those utterly huge levels in what seems like a matter of seconds, you can literally go so fast you have echoes following you. Like so:

http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/6609/136659_full.jpg

It's totally awesome.

[Pineconn]

Eh. What will Sonic Team think of next? (http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1182447495&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5&)





BioWare, SEGA team up to bring first Sonic RPG to Nintendo DS.
SEGA&#174; Europe, Ltd., SEGA&#174; of America, Inc. and Canada-based developer studio BioWare&#174; Corp. today announced a partnership to create a new video game based on the classic SEGA flagship icon, Sonic The Hedgehog. The exact name of the game is undetermined, but this new title developed exclusively for the Nintendo DS will ship in 2008.

“BioWare is one of the hottest names in RPG development in the world,” said Simon Jeffery, President and COO, SEGA of America, Inc. “Everyone at SEGA has huge confidence that Sonic is in the safest of hands, and that BioWare can create the ultimate handheld RPG experience for gamers of all ages.”

BioWare is the award-winning independent developer that has created some of the world's best-selling titles including the Baldur's Gate™ and Neverwinter Nights™ series, the 2003 Game of the Year, Star Wars&#174;: Knights of the Old Republic™ and the 2005 RPG of the Year, Jade Empire.™ BioWare is currently developing one of the most anticipated next-generation titles of 2007, Mass Effect.™

“We’re thrilled to be working with SEGA on Sonic, one of the industry’s most enduring and compelling icons,” said Greg Zeschuk, president of BioWare. “As huge fans of Sonic ourselves, we’re committed to delivering a truly amazing story-driven experience within the Sonic universe, focusing on capturing the character’s broad appeal and placing him in a completely original adventure,” added Ray Muzyka, chief executive officer of BioWare.

The relationship with BioWare reinforces SEGA’s increased emphasis on Western content development for Western audiences. In the past few years SEGA has announced partnerships with developers Bizarre Creations, Gas Powered Games, Monolith Productions, Obsidian Entertainment, Planet Moon Studios, Pseudo Interactive and Silicon Knights. SEGA has also acquired development studios The Creative Assembly, Secret Level and Sports Interactive.

[DarkDragoonX]

A little bit of the goodness in the universe just died.

[Darth Marsden]

Oh dear lord, I hope it's not a Sonic RPG. We've already got one of those, haven't we? By someone who posts here? God, who was it? I'm terrible with names.

[vegeta1215]

I just read that bit about a Sonic RPG earlier today too. As if the series wasn't going in a bad direction already...

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is a great game, but if I had to pick a best, it would have to be Sonic 2, which took everything good from the first one, made it better - better levels, a great new character, really fun bonus stages, spin dash!

I had fun with Heroes, and it really felt like a throw back to the old Sonic games (which is a good thing), but there were several stages that were just frustrating as crap. I remember dying over and over on the haunted house stage cause I kept falling to my death. I haven't played any other modern Sonic games, although Riders looks interesting, kind of like F-zero-ish. But, I have F-Zero GX, and nothing can top the speed of that game.

[Nicholas Steel]

Sonic Heroes? mmm its ok a) i recommend a controller with analogue controls for it and b) controls are way too sensitive for it.

[Aegix Drakan]

*bam*

that was the sound of my hand hitting the table in shock. An official sonic RPG?

...

...

All I can say is they'd better do a DAMN good job on it, and it had better be an action RPG type system, or there is gonna be a freaking riot in the streets.

In fact, If it's turn based, I'll go and join the riot.


BTW, the guy on AGN making a sonic RPG is Superstrider



I haven't played any other modern Sonic games, although Riders looks interesting, kind of like F-zero-ish. But, I have F-Zero GX, and nothing can top the speed of that game.

QFT. F-zero is the fastest and most intense racing game I have ever played. Riders is quite good, but F-zero is the ultimate, in my opinion.


And for the record, I want sonic in brawl too. SONIC FOR SSBB!

[Dechipher]

Guys...Mario RPG freakin ruled. Sonic RPG could do so equally. Especially if you got to play as Robotnik.

[Glenn the Great]

Well, BioWare knows what they are doing, but unfortunately it's a DS game. :(

[Gerudo]

Guys...Mario RPG freakin ruled. Sonic RPG could do so equally. Especially if you got to play as Robotnik.

i agree. if Sonic RPG comes close to what Mario RPG did on the SNES, then the game will be a killer app. let's just hope the only thing the touch screen does is show menus. requiring EVERY ds game to use the touch screen some something other than choosing options is starting to piss me off. i mean, why the hell would you use the touch screen to move if you have a damn D-PAD?!

(sorry if i was off-topic, the last line above stems from a rumor i heard about LoZ:PH)

[Glenn the Great]

What, you don't think it would be fun and innovative to draw circles on the touchpad to guide Sonic and friends through loops?

[mrz84]

A Sonic RPG? Better have Shadow in as playable. Maybe one of the traitorous robos*Gamma/Omega* as well. And Metal Sonic. Can't have a Sonic game without him in it. :kitty:

[Darth Marsden]

A Sonic RPG? Better have Shadow in as playable. Maybe one of the traitorous robos*Gamma/Omega* as well. And Metal Sonic. Can't have a Sonic game without him in it. :kitty:
I think you've just described one of the many reasons people have problems with the newer Sonic games.

[The_Amaster]

Yeah. I mean, I don't mind Metal Sonic, because he's been around in one incarnation or another since Sonic 2, but a lot of the new characters are too much for me. Give me the good old triad.

[Cloral]

Or rather, a game where you just play as Sonic and nobody else. Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

[Tygore]

Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

Yes, please. Or at least make it work, and not be the "fly at the wrong target and fall to your death attack".

[DarkFlameWolf]

I honestly wonder sometimes if the creators actually PLAYTEST their games before they kick it out the door.

[vegeta1215]

Or rather, a game where you just play as Sonic and nobody else. Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

"Homing Attack"? Is that what it's called? I thought it was called "Plunge forward and fall to my death over and over again"

[Pineconn]

Yes, the Homing Attack. Good idea, poorly implemented. Except Sonic's boss battle in Adventure 1, which was kind of cool.

[Anthus]

Wow. This thread got popular.

Sonic has a lot of potential. If only the games were truly as fun to play as the FMV's in Sonic Heroes (opening) made it seem. The series could have so much more if they spent only six months more on their games...

They need to give Knuckles and Tails "Speed" stages like Sonic, and like back in the day again. Tails' stages in SA1 are cool though. Racing against Sonic...

[mrz84]

I think you've just described one of the many reasons people have problems with the newer Sonic games.

I can't help it that I'm more open minded about the games I play than others. I mean, come on! Not EVERYONE hates the new characters that have appeared in recent Sonic gmaes. Though I haven't played Rush on the DS or any of the games with Silver in them. I can't judge something by what others say. It's liek judging a book by it's cover, ya know? :kitty:

[Darth Marsden]

I just said (well, noted that you'd said) that some people have issues with the new characters. Not every new character is problematic - I, surprisingly, quite like Shadow and what he represents (essentially a dark version of Sonic), though some of the other characters are troubled, like Big the Cat or Cream the Rabbit (Suggestive much?).

Problems they need to address before they make any new 3D Sonic games:

- Fix the freakin' physics. If you include a homing attack, make it work. If you include springboards, make sure they lead somewhere. If you include loops, make sure we don't fall off halfway round. If you include a boss, make sure that we can actually destroy it without dying 50 times in the process.
- Make some decent levels. An example of one that isn't bad is Emerald Coast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsJ_B4TMoL4). An example of one that is bad is Mystic Mansion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frpU3Zu13Gg). And don't get me started with all the casino-style levels. The one in Sonic 2 was enough.
- Remember that speed is good. Most Sonic games have had him constantly stopping and starting - the best Sonic games don't do that. They encourage you to just keep on running.
- Get some decent voice artists. Tails and Amy in Sonic Adventure 2 were fingers-down-blackboard painful. This may have improved some in the more recent games, but since I haven't played them, I don't know. Either way, just make sure they don't frighten cats.
- Seriously, stop with the casino levels.
- Quit it with the love interests. While other games have plots, Sonic games never really did, simply because they weren't needed. Having Sonic fall for someone might work in the cartoons (*cough*PrincessSally*cough*) it's just wrong in games. Especially if said love interest is human. A hedgehog and a human? Eww.
- Stop inventing new characters. Deal with the ones you've got at the moment before coming up with any more. Honestly, it's almost like you're struggling to shoehorn them all in at times. Try getting rid of some, maybe? Please?
- No more f**king casino levels.

[Glenn the Great]

I definitely agree with the characters. I liked the old model, where new characters were introduced sparingly and carefully. First we just had Sonic, then we got Tails, then we were introduced to Knuckles, but he was very mysterious and unplayable, leaving us some time to think about him before letting us play as him with S&K and see his real abilities.

I stopped following Sonic after S&K, and now I look on the Wikipedia, and the game has turned into this huge character fest. They all look pretty much the same. So many clones of Sonic that are just colored a bit differently. Shadow seems to be a huge idiot. I thought this was supposed to be a game about robots, and not immortal beings. The Wikipedia says he's the 2nd most popular character. Last I knew, Knuckles was. I may be off track on this, but superfically he seems to be a carbon copy of Protoman from Megaman (another annoying-ass character who tries to look somehow cool and mysterious by acting aloof.)

[Nicholas Steel]

i think i kept getting stuck in the casino level in sonic 2 -.- you had to time your jumps on some bobbing platform to push it down enough so you can get under a wall and continue the level, i can never time my jumps on it right.

edit: yes the sonic heroes intro FMV made the game look good -.- you get it in the sonic gems plus (the intro vid) i got the game and it sux soo hard it just isnt funny.

[mrz84]

I gotta say. of the new characters from games I liked, Shadow was my favorite. He was followed closely by Gamma and Omega. The robot from Sonic Battle(can't remember his name right now) was sorta ok. Characters I hate? One comes to mind above ALL others. Big. The fuscking. Cat. Why won't they let him die? He gives cats everywhere a bad name. Cream I don't hate as much as she is one of the few characters with a weapon. The first being Amy. And I don't count Ivo in this until SA2 because he wasn't playable (to my knowledge) until then. I don't generally like any of the Chaotix. Except for Espio. Ninja chameloens rock. :kitty:

And I must agree that Casion levels suck. I really liked the Starlight Zone in the first Sonic game for some reason. Maybe it was the music. Meh. :kitty:

[Dechipher]

Casino Levels ARE Sonic, man. There's nothing more Sonic-like than casino levels.

[Cloral]

- Remember that speed is good. Most Sonic games have had him constantly stopping and starting - the best Sonic games don't do that. They encourage you to just keep on running.

I hate to say it, but you're wrong there. Speed is important, but speed alone is boring. I played the older sonics not too long ago, trying to see if I could see what made those games so much better. And the answer was level design. There were always areas where you could build up speed, as well as areas you could get by easier if you moved fast. But there were also areas where slowing down and paying attention would get you through more effectively or even allow you to find an entirely different route that might be stuffed with rings. Knowing when to go fast, and when to slow it down, was the key. And because slowing down in the right place might reveal a better route through the level, the way you played the game had a big impact on the experience you got out of it, which made the game feel a lot more rewarding. It didn't force you to play through the level in some set way.

Here's a good example: level 1-2 (I think) of Sonic 1 had an area with a swinging platform over a small depression. If you were moving quickly you could simply run up the right side of the depression and keep going. However, if you took a bit of time to explore and backtracked to the left down in the depression, you would find a pair of speed shoes. With the speed shoes you could fly through the level, and if you went fast enough with them you could reach a loop with a 1-up on top before the shoes ran out. The speed of the shoes allowed you to travel fast enough up an incline to the left of the loop to reach the top and the 1-up. But had you just been rushing through the level, thinking about nothing but speed, you would've missed the shoes and therefore the extra life. So in this case, knowing when to slow down (in the depression) and when to speed it up (once you get the shoes) makes a huge difference.

PS: has anyone else here played Secret Rings? The controls pissed me off quite a few times, but in the end I really did enjoy it. I actually played past the end of the game trying to earn better medals on the levels, which is something I almost never do in a game anymore.

[Darth Marsden]

Cloral: Ah, but I already mentioned better levels. Combine the two, and you get Sonic Advance 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biCjzyJlscM). Which, y'know, was fun. I do see your point however, so I propose we meet halfway and suggest that the option for the player to choose between speed or exploration would make a really bad-ass game.

mrz84: The robot in Sonic Battle was called Emerl. I never played far into that, but I have to say I wasn't that impressed. And yes, Starlight Zone rocked. It had cool music, it was a fairly simple level and the boss was fun. Wee.

Dechipher: There-in lies the problem. They've been done to death. There's nothing new you can add that will make a new casino level different to any of the others. And if it's pretty much just a carbon-copy of what's come before, then what's the point?

franpa: Did you mean the Carnival Night level in Sonic 3? 'cause if so, what you had to do was push the control pad up when the barrel moves down and down when it moves up. It took me so long to figure that out when I was a kid, it nearly drove me mad! No indication, no hints, nothing. Some sloppy level design there, methinks.

[vegeta1215]

The casino stage in Sonic Heroes was a surprise to see, and made the game feel more like a old Sonic game, but the levels themselves were very frustrating. Heroes had a big mix of good and bad levels - the good ones were great, and the bad ones made you want to throw your controller up against the wall. I also wish the special stages weren't so hard. I would like to play against the extra end boss (Metal Sonic), but probably never will since I can't get the Chaos emeralds from the special stages.

As for new characters - seriously Sega, I don't care about them! I care about Sonic! And you can keep Tails cause he's cool, and maybe one love interest. Everyone else, get rid of!

I haven't played Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii, but I remember Cloral saying in the past that it was a lot of fun. So maybe I'll rent that and check it out.

[Darth Marsden]

The special stages in Sonic Heroes aren't so much bad as they are broken. The only way I could finish them was by using an Action Replay, which is never a good way of doing things. If you have to cheat to finish a game, then the guys who made it have utterly failed.

[The_Amaster]

Oh mygod! Casino boss in Sonic 2. Drove me frickin up the wall! I'd keep going up the sided to hit it on the top, and then I'd hit the bumper at the top, fall out of my spin, and land on it, hurting me.


I think Carnival Night(S3), and Casino Night(S2) both showed different ways to pull off the whole "loud, flashy electric" zone feel.

[Nicholas Steel]

franpa: Did you mean the Carnival Night level in Sonic 3? 'cause if so, what you had to do was push the control pad up when the barrel moves down and down when it moves up. It took me so long to figure that out when I was a kid, it nearly drove me mad! No indication, no hints, nothing. Some sloppy level design there, methinks.

OMFG, THANK YOU SO FREAKIN' MUCH ! im sure i looked at FAQ's but i dont recall ever hearing of such a tactic oO.

obviously yes, i was talking about Sonic 3 >.>

[Anthus]

Here's the thing with Sonic Heroes: The Stages up through Bingo Highway are good for the most part, and rather enjoyable. I personally like the Power plant themed area, and the Casino themed area. Both were very reminiscent of Sonic 2 which is my second favorite Sonic game. However, Rail Canyon/ Bullet Station was horrible. I was good in theory, but horribly executed. Frog Forest was a little better, but it still sucked seeing as how it was basically a clone of the preceding stage. Lots of grinding and jumping, and missing... Just like Rail Canyon. Hang Castle was also shit. More grinding... More sucking. Egg Fleet was okay though. It reminded me of the Flying Fort from Sonic 2. Final Fortress was okay too. I can't remember anything too terribly annoying about it.

So, up untill the later 2/3 of the game, it's pretty good. They obviously got lazy with all the grinding. Boss battles also suck. They could have been a lot more creative here.

I really wish they'd make another game like Sonic 3 & Knuckles. For the most part the series was great up until Sonic Adventure, and good up until Sonic Heroes, and shit after that (save for the GBA/ DS games).

[Darth Marsden]

*cough*Sonic R*cough*

I remember when I was at College, and I was discussing my preference for Sonic games rather then Mario ones with a friend, and I used the phrase 'Well Mario doesn't have a racing game, does he?' It took me 3 seconds to realize my folly, and boy did I have egg on my face!

But yeah, I've always preferred the 2D Sonics to the 2D Marios.

[AlexMax]

Sonic games are pretty fun for the most part but some of their fans are nuts (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sonic_CulT).

[mrz84]

The special stages in Sonic Heroes aren't so much bad as they are broken. The only way I could finish them was by using an Action Replay, which is never a good way of doing things. If you have to cheat to finish a game, then the guys who made it have utterly failed.

I have to agree. Having to cheat to finish a level/task in a game does reflect badly on the creators of said game. :kitty:

[Cloral]

I haven't played Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii, but I remember Cloral saying in the past that it was a lot of fun. So maybe I'll rent that and check it out.

I must warn however, that the controls take a lot of getting used to. Sonic will frequently do things that seem a bit counter-intuitive and until you get the hang of dealing with these things, the game can be incredibly frustrating. So keep this in mind if you decide to try it, otherwise you'll break the game in frustration before it gets fun.

At the very least the homing attack works better than it does in other games. They are very clear with a large bulls-eye graphic which enemy or object is currently targeted, and Sonic does a pretty good job of hitting what you tell him to. Of course, the fact that most enemies in the game hardly move probably helps.

[Aegix Drakan]

*glaces through the Wiki artivcle posted by alexmax*

0_0 W...T...F

There are Sonic fans like that?

[Sute]

Casino Levels ARE Sonic, man. There's nothing more Sonic-like than casino levels.

Those levels are probably why I'm addicted to gambling. Ahh, good ol' Sonic.
Not sure if it was just my Sonic the Hedgehog 2 catridge or what, but at the Casino level, Tails would randomly change chipset while flying, but he'd be walking. Probably the coolest thing ever though at my age during that. Actually, it's still cool, it's just I don't scream at it anymore.

[AlexMax]

*glaces through the Wiki artivcle posted by alexmax*

0_0 W...T...F

There are Sonic fans like that?

From the main Sonic article on ED...


The Fanbase

The Sonic fanbase is, unsurprisingly, filled with furfaggotry,which is split into 2 distinctive parts. Furry smut from the "old" part of the fandom usually consists of Princess Sally from "SatAM" being fucked. Those that are in this part of the fandom that don't jack off to Sonic porn are bitter "retro" fags who refuse to play anything after Sonic 1 because "the original is best" (For instance, all of Sonic CulT).

The second part of the fandom is the 13-15 year-olds who played Sonic Adventure 2 and watched Sonic X and probably don't know what a Sega Genesis is. This section of the fandom delights in creating fan-characters, which are quite arguably the least imaginative fan characters in any fandom ever. Most are recoloured Sonic clones wearing trenchcoats and those stupid huge goth boots that have swords and can go Super at any time, and are evil. This part also produces the worst of the Sonic porn, due to it being drawn by people who don't know what a vagina actually looks like, or have just copied it from a porno mag they found in some bushes. The fandom is also filled with drama, the essential staple for any furry fandom, usually between "new" and "old" Sonic fans bitching about the latest Sonic game.

I would link you, but pretty much every picture on the Sonic page on ED is Not Work Safe/Not Mind Safe/Furry Porn/Rule 34/Oh God Someone Please Kill Me.

[DarkDragoonX]

That... that is some fucked up shit, is what this is.

[jman2050]

As AGN's resident #1 Sonic fanboy (no one else will claim this title as long as I am around), I am tempted to make some ridiculously huge post dissecting everything Sonic-related that's happened over the past 16 years. I'll refrain however in order to keep my sanity. I'll just mention 3 points of interest

1. The internet sonic fan base is, more or less, how it's described by ED and other outsiders. I don't consider myself technically part of this fan base, as they are usually all 12 year old furries, but I do mingle a bit with some members (usually related to reverse-engineering Sonic games, but that's another story), so believe when I say that nothing is exaggerated.

2. Sonic CD is still the best of the series, but I have learned to appreciate S3K a lot more over the years. It is probably my most replayed Sonic nowadays simply because of how easy it is to get into. Sonic Rush owns, the Advance games are better than people say, and I've logged over 200 hours into SA2B getting all the emblems. Sonic Heroes almost made me disown the franchise though, and everything that's happened after that sans the Sonic Rush games just has me banging my head on the wall over and over and over again.

3. Sonic X is garbage, SATAM is garbage (having recently rewatched it, I can say this with certainty), heck, and and all extended merchandise relating to Sonic is usually garbage. This is even worse today considering we don't even have new good games to fall back on like Pokemon and Mario franchises do.

[vegeta1215]

I actually kind of liked the Sonic cartoons (both of them) when I was little... :(

[Nicholas Steel]

"Sonic X" has the most weird twists in the story ever seen nearly oO "super mario bros cartoon" has the weirdest :P

and the voice acting sux so hard its not even funny.

[Glenn the Great]

The SATAM cartoon rocked. It followed the Archie comics, which I was really into at the time. I hated all the other incarnations of the series that were floating around because they were way too goofy and childish. SATAM had this really dark feel to it, and Robotnik was impressively portrayed.

[Dragon]

I sadly don't think Sonic is ever going to be as huge as it once was... thanks in part to its army of crappy 3d games. I remember liking Sonic Adventure, but I have to disagree with others and say SA2 sucks, the Sonic/Shadow levels were pretty good... except for the boss fights, the Tails/Eggman sections were a little weak, and once we get to the gem finding mission with Knuckles and (BAt Girl?) we are truly at the fifth layer of gaming hell. Sonic Hero, Shadow, and the latest 360 Sonic all proved that with the possible exception of SA1, Sega does not know how to make a good 3d Sonic game. So unless Sega tries something bold and makes a new 2d Sonic game for consoles... you might as well stick to the Genesis and Sega CD for all your Sonic needs.

[mrz84]

The SATAM cartoon rocked. It followed the Archie comics, which I was really into at the time. I hated all the other incarnations of the series that were floating around because they were way too goofy and childish. SATAM had this really dark feel to it, and Robotnik was impressively portrayed.

I agree with this post 95%. Why not 100%? Because I like Sonix X a bit more than all the other Sonci cartoons EXCEPT for the SATAM cartoon. :kitty:

[Darth Marsden]

When did you last watch Sonic SatAM? I got the DVD boxset recently (sad, I know) and was surprised at how... well, not cool it was. The voice artist for Sonic was particularly annoying, although to be fair, he's the only one who is.

[MottZilla]

Yes Sonic in the SATAM cartoon is ridiculusly whiney/annoying and a douche bag. And SATAM didn't really have that much of a "dark feel" because of Sonic's constant annoying talking. Really it wasn't dark or anything like that.

[mrz84]

I last watched Sonic SATAM when I was a kid during the final episode. I heard it was supposed to continue, but has not.

[DarkDragoonX]

*cough*Sonic R*cough*

Sonic R was actually surprisingly good game. At least, I enjoyed it.

[Darth Marsden]

It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't that great either. Pales in comparison to Mario Kart.

Sonic SatAM info. (http://www.satamsonic.com/) Selected quotes follow:

With a cliffhanger ending such as the one the SatAM had, many questions arrise. For one, who did the glowing eyes behind Snively belong to? Well, some time ago, the main writer for the second season, Ben Hurst showed up on AFSH. [...] According to Ben, the red eyes were none other than Naugus.

Archie was based off the SatAM series. DiC created all the characters that are in SatAM including Sally, Bunnie and Dulcy. [...] The reason the comic came out first is because it takes a lot less time to develop a comic verses a whole cartoon series.

[mrz84]

DarkDragoonX - Yes. Sonic R was a surprisingly good game.

Darh Marsden - I looked that up a couple years ago actually. I'm still dissapointed they didn't continue it, but alas. There is narry a thing I can do about it. :shrug: