Does classic have a "stigma"?

[AmazingAmpharos]

This is a concern I've been having. I was thinking of starting on a new project, and I really want to use the classic tileset. I like the way classic looks a lot, and I'm much more comfortable working with it than I would be with something else. However, I get a big sense that there's an inherent bias against classic, and I'm worried that many people would refuse to play anything I made in that tileset. I did plan to customize it more than I did the last one (notably, each dungeon looking legitimately different), but I would probably still stick to the general art style that classic offers. Am I just setting myself up for a massive disadvantage, or am I just imagining this?

By the way, if I were to not use classic, odds are I would customize it a lot less. I'm not a very good artist so I find drawing in art styles that don't "show their pixels" much harder, and I don't think graphics are an important enough part of a game to warrant spending an obscene amount of time working with. I'm actually already very daunted by trying to make customized tiles that fit into classic to be honest; I don't know if I could handle making that much harder on myself. Of course, I also greatly fear making the greatest quest that no one ever played, and as much as I truly loathe the idea of using fancier graphics to draw players, I suppose if it's the only way to get people to play it that I would.

[Tygore]

Real Zelda fans use Classic.

[LinkMaster500]

I don't see anything wrong with using the Classic tileset as the main tileset for the quest and then using non-classic tiles for some customization. It's not like you have to use Classic tiles for absolutely everything.

I'm using the Classic tileset too, but I am also using non-classic tiles for some elements in the quest (such as towns and combos used for certain puzzles).

In fact, there are ZC users who recommend using Classic for one's first quest--so that they first get used to the basics of quest making, and then use other tilesets once one is comfortable doing so.

[4matsy]

Classic is only shunned by young whippersnapper n00bs that can't appreciate what came before them. :p

Seriously though, the graphics are a big factor in setting the mood/flavor/atmosphere of your quest. Use what you want...if you're going for a feel similar to the original Zelda 1, then classic tiles are probably the best choice anyway. :)

[Gleeok]

Well I waited a few day's to reply to this, just to see what kind of responses it got...and it doesn't look good. Imagine for a second that you replace classic with "pure set" or "DoR" or whatever is popular nowadays. How many people would reply saying something like "what are smoking crack or something? Pure is awesome!" or the like. The fact that this hasn't gotten too many comments makes me think it does carry a stigma.
I remember looking through quests and tilesets from here and pureZC a while back, (before the database went down) and there's plenty of random comments here and there basically saying stuff like "not another dam nes quest", before rating it a 0. And there's enough that i still remember. It's kind of sad, really. 70% of the custom quests i've played through are some form of classic derived set, and every quest I started making(minus 1)has been from the classic set. I think it's the best. Pure looks too cartoony to me. But there's two things you gotta do;
1) add some colors, customize some tiles, something! There's like 1/3 a page of combos, mix it up a little...it makes a huge difference and it doesn't take too long at all.
2) add some music!!! This is the single most important thing you can do to change the mood of each level/portion of the game. I refuse to listen to the default midi's while playing. I'll set the volume to zero, and listen to something else. I don't like green eggs and ham, I don't like them...

...so to recap: Classic rules!(w/some adjustments) ..Screw you guy's if you don't like it...and I don't like green ham. ;P

[AmazingAmpharos]

Both your 1 and 2 concerns were completely in line with what I intended to do. I'm not really sure how music is a part of a tileset, and I like the default music (especially Level 9). However, I agree with you in spirit about the importance of music, and there were two reasons that I used the defaults almost exclusively in my last effort. The first was that I wanted an "authentic Zelda 1 feel", and the second was that I didn't figure out how to use customized music until late in production (it was my first quest!). Both of those factors are no longer present so clearly the result on this front will be radically different.

Of course, I intend to mix it up as much as my art skills allow, mostly in the context of making the dungeons look substantively different from each other (just not possible with raw classic). I just hope that doesn't translate to "very little"; I've never even really tried to do anything remotely artistic before in my life (I had art classes, etc, but I always was terrible and didn't care since as long as you are alive you get a B anyway).

I am not really sure how I should interpret this response, but it's positive enough for me to feel like going ahead with classic. There are various factors which are going to delay me actually doing anything beyond planning on paper for a while (my desire for it to be good, waiting for the better enemy editor, etc.) so I still have time for a change of heart if it's really needed.

[Gleeok]

It's actually really, really easy to add some palletes, regardless of what tileset your using. I'd recommend starting with a dungeon pallete in classic and making all the colors crazy, you can easily tell what color does what. Then edit them to whatever feel your going for. I think now i've got something like 50+ level palletes with 15 colors for palletes 2,3,4, and 9 in each. Been using it for a couple of years though...wouldent want to do that in a day. Anyway here's some old un-updated shots from a quest of mine with the classic set w/ one or two colors changed in the old 3 color palletes.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/a372465fbc2575dce83185635063cccc4g.jpg http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/fc0c1a9d9901f8b7f642c2b947efa42e4g.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/81f8a7659b23917a800d80eb8f4612214g.jpg http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2b26db4339bb2116f91a1b5f41fad3114g.jpg

These are some screens that use classic and no updated tiles exept for the last, and man, i've got to rip better looking flames for that boss....as you see by the last one, i suck as an artist as well...wtf, those suck...ahem, so it just takes a little things here and there to make a huge difference. And yes, I think we're all waiting for the damn rejiggering to get completed. I have high hopes, but low patience...also check out vgmusic and midishrine, they're ggggreat! ;P

[Pheonix]

I was making a quest in Classic, but a lethal bug in the mapmaking (where you choose the screens that are 'filled-in') stopped me. Got as far as making level 2 as well...

[Gleeok]

I was making a quest in Classic, but a lethal bug in the mapmaking (where you choose the screens that are 'filled-in') stopped me. Got as far as making level 2 as well...


I don't remember a bug like this. You should start a post in ZQ editor help giving specific details to what's going on. Then if there is a bug, it can be fixed.

[erm2003]

I was making a quest in Classic, but a lethal bug in the mapmaking (where you choose the screens that are 'filled-in') stopped me. Got as far as making level 2 as well...

Can you describe it more? Also were you following along with a tutorial? The link to Alphadawg's tutorial is in my signature. I am wondering if your bug is really dealing with the dmap slider.

[Pheonix]

No, it was dealing with the selection of the screens to designate as part of the dungeon map. After a clicks on the grid, my computer crashed. It appears to be a bug in 2.10.2, as all the 2.5 betas are fine with it. And probably 1.92 and 1.90 (although I can't be bothered to find out).

Anyway... I've started a new quest with the classic tileset, which involves you starting with 16 hearts and the white sword and sending you into a Level 1 dungeon infested with Patra (oval)s, Gleeoks, and Octorok 3s. Needless to say, evil.

[Anthus]

This is a concern I've been having. I was thinking of starting on a new project, and I really want to use the classic tileset. I like the way classic looks a lot, and I'm much more comfortable working with it than I would be with something else. However, I get a big sense that there's an inherent bias against classic, and I'm worried that many people would refuse to play anything I made in that tileset. I did plan to customize it more than I did the last one (notably, each dungeon looking legitimately different), but I would probably still stick to the general art style that classic offers. Am I just setting myself up for a massive disadvantage, or am I just imagining this?

Am. Freakin. En.

I know exactly how you feel. Use the classic set. If people can't appreciate your work, then forget them. It is your quest. Make your quest how you want. I'd still play it... If I still used ZC...

Good luck.

[Gleeok]

Yeah, what TD said. I forgot to mention that earlier. Bottom line: who really cares what other people think. Don't start making a quest that your just not going to finish because it's not how you invisioned it. In fact, don't even listen to me right now. What do I know? :googly: (I just had to throw that in there)

Also I think part of the reason is that there is no good updates to the classic set. (demo tiles excluded.) Everything that could count as one is too bright and happy looking IMO. I've been making one for a while, but the problem is it's so unorganized and incomplete it'll be another year before I can submit it.
Maybe there's one that i'm not aware of though. Well if there is, someone let me know.

[Gplayer]

Classic pwns all of existance. I'd play your game once it was done!:D No doubt.

[Master_of_Power]

Yes Use the classic set! Its a solid tileset, unlike some others that are poorly organized, or heavely bloated so that you can't find what you need without wasting 5 minutes scrolling through combos...

Another thing to know, sometimes artistic ability is inherited, sometimes its learned. I started out really bad with my own drawings. As we practice, we get better, and we learn from others what is better. Don't let your "lack of ability" keep you from turning that into an explosion of creation!

[Russ]

What I normally do is make a "rough draft" of the quest using the classic tileset, and then copy it screen by screen to a newer tileset. That way people who refuse to play quests in classic tileset can play it in a newer one. Plus, let's face it, classic is so much easier to use. Another option, mentioned before, is to import new tiles to give it a custom fell. Or edit some tiles in the classic to come up with interesting results. Take the quest "End of Time" for instance (which is without a doubt the best quest ever). Pinncon, the creator, used classic tileset, but imported lava and edited the dungeon walls to make the level 9 entrance. A few screenshots:
http://www.freewebs.com/russad/zelda020.bmphttp://www.freewebs.com/russad/zelda062.bmp