The hardest RPG ever thread!

[Gleeok]

So basically i'm getting bored with all these easy RPG games that are out there, and need something a little more (accually a lot more) difficult, cruel, and unforgiving. I always enjoy a challenge!

0-gamed wind waker, Twilight princess first playthrough.
Beaten FF1 with one character only.
Overcame Star ocean 3 4D difficulty. etc.

Everyone please share your thoughts on the hardest rpg you've played. I've decided to play whatever game is the most notorious for being rediculously hard, no matter what!

My vote so far would have to be Wizardry 1 NES (been awhile, but remember almost breaking my controller at one point on the 6th or 7th level) and SO3 4D difficulty.

What's the hardest RPG you've ever played?

[Glenn the Great]

Hardest I've ever played was FF1, and that was with 4 chars. I don't have anything for you.

[Grasshopper]

I thought Koudelka (PSX) was hard. I hated the game too. Played about an hour of it with my friend, since he owned it. I'll never play it again. It plays like Resident Evil, but instead of fighting in real-time, you get random enemy encounters where you're taken to a battle screen which plays out like a turn-based strategy RPG, where everyone is set up on a grid. You fight with ballistics or melee weapons, but they break, so you can't grind to level up your character, or you'll lose your weapon, and have to fight with your fists. Since the setting was more like a survival horror game, then an RPG, I had to find weapons lying about, since I couldn't buy them. So I was always stuck with less weapons because my more powerful weapons broke. I had no idea if you could fix them or not.

I don't know, maybe the game wasn't that hard, but I didn't like it, so I wasn't going to play it long enough to find out.

[Nicholas Steel]

Risk? ;P or are you into a different role playing game?? Risk has gameplay determined by a roll of dice thus i assume that makes it a RPG... but i could be wrong =\

[MottZilla]

I don't think Risk or Zelda is really a RPG. Zelda is more of an action adventure. It doesn't really have many truely traditional RPG elements to it.

[Cloral]

I think FF1 is a real good choice. It is insanely hard by today's standards.

Star Ocean 3 wasn't so much hard as it was frustrating. My other characters were always finding ways to get themselves killed. It was like you weren't really in control of what was going on.

[Orion]

No RPG is really that hard if you have the patience to level up.

[DarkDragoonX]

FF1? You CAN'T be serious. Certainly no walk in the park, but hardest RPG ever? Not even close. The Wizardry series is definitely harder (and I seem to recall Wizardry 5 being particularly challenging, for some reason). Shining in the Darkness is also far, far more difficult than FF1 could ever hope to be.

But for the HARDEST RPGs, you want roguelikes. Angband, Moria, Nethack, Gearhead... they are unmerciful, pitiless beasts. Theyw ill devour your pathetic excuse of an adventurer, and they will laugh gleefully as you are forced to create a new character from scratch every time you die.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot about "Mystery Dungeon" type console games. Nightmare of Druaga, Izuna, etc. Very similar to roguelikes, but with a distinct JRPG feel to them. THey, too, will crush your spirit and laugh at your feeble effots to defeat them.

[Aegix Drakan]

I think the hardest game I've ever played is my best friend's RPG. Before he decided to show some mercy.

I'm telling ya, before he finally acted on our pleas for mercy, his game was freaking hard.

Example: 2nd dungeon, the forest of Death, lived up to it's name. It's almost impossible to see where you're going, there are tough undead around every corner, and to effectively move through the dungeon, you need to find these little black ravens to fly you around. The ravens in question are highly camoflaged, and in pitch blackness you're only clue is often just a slight (almost pixel small) movement in a tree (A heavily leaved pine tree). Oh, and did I mention that there is no place to recover your HP and MP? All you got is a one shot complete-heal place, and that's right before the area boss, who I beat with only a single turn left (one more turn, and she'd have busted out a one hit kill move because I'd taken too long).

Yeah. No pleasant. And about ten minutes later, you are sent on a wild goose chase though the whole town, trying to avert a crisis, and you've got only one hour, and a lot of VERY vague clues.

:( and even now, he's just set up a maze of invisible spikes. With only the occaisional footprint to guide you, you have to go through this maddening maze, where one wrong move will cause spikes to appear and hurt you. He HAS started to make the game a bit more possible, but it's still quite hard...


...and Golden sun 2 gets an honorable mention for the near-impossible final boss. Guard aura + cruel ruin + darksol gasp = massive damage. Especially if he's just drained all of your Djinni the turn before...

[Gleeok]

No RPG is really that hard if you have the patience to level up.

You have obviously not played some of the old school type rpg's. Some games are designed to prevent power leveling, making them that much harder.

I don't think risk qualifies as an RPG. Unless your pretending to be a plastic cannon sworn to defend North africa from the forces of unlucky dice rolls.


FF1? You CAN'T be serious. Certainly no walk in the park, but hardest RPG ever? Not even close. The Wizardry series is definitely harder (and I seem to recall Wizardry 5 being particularly challenging, for some reason). Shining in the Darkness is also far, far more difficult than FF1 could ever hope to be.

I still laugh my ass off when I hear stuff like "crono trigger was the hardest game i've ever played". gimme a break. FF 1, 2, and 5 i think were the only ones that I even saw a 'Game Over' screen for.


But for the HARDEST RPGs, you want roguelikes. Angband, Moria, Nethack, Gearhead... they are unmerciful, pitiless beasts. Theyw ill devour your pathetic excuse of an adventurer, and they will laugh gleefully as you are forced to create a new character from scratch every time you die.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot about "Mystery Dungeon" type console games. Nightmare of Druaga, Izuna, etc. Very similar to roguelikes, but with a distinct JRPG feel to them. THey, too, will crush your spirit and laugh at your feeble effots to defeat them.

I've gotten all excited now, never even heard of any of these before. Think i'm getting one step closer to finding some great, truly challenging games. Usually i'm the on laughing at a games feeble attempt to defeat me. I'm going to google all this stuff and try to put together a list.

Thanks everyone, and keep them coming!

[DarkDragon]

I experienced a lot of game overs when I played Final Fantasy Tactics, but then again I'm not the most hardcore of RPG players.

[Glenn the Great]

Aegix's comment about his friend's difficult RPG brings up a good point....

If you want an RPG that's truly difficult to the propensities you are seeking, perhaps you should have named this "The most poorly designed RPG ever thread!"

[Gleeok]

Holy crap. I never played or even seen any of these roguelike games before. Now that's old school! I think I remember hearing something like someone playing this for years and then going crazy going around killing people playing a real life version of this game or something 20 years ago. hmmm...maybe that was something else. Anyway, if your like me and have no idea what in the hell "rogue" games are, then here's some screenshots of some different versions.
http://www.zangband.org/Screenshots.aspx

Yeah, it definately looks hard ;P


Aegix's comment about his friend's difficult RPG brings up a good point....

If you want an RPG that's truly difficult to the propensities you are seeking, perhaps you should have named this "The most poorly designed RPG ever thread!"

Don't misunderstand. The majority of games that I have been playing for the last 2 years have all been fun easy games. Which is why I need a welcome change from. The last couple months i've been playing Lufia 2, Dragon warrior 4, and FF 12 on and off, not because their hard, but because they are great games.

Final fantasy tactics! I forgot about that one. I remember buying it, playing it for a week, then misplacing it and not being able to find it ever again! The organizational method of playing musical random CD cases triumphs again!

So here's what i've got thus far:
FF 1(by popular demand)
Wizardry 1 through 6 (particularly 4)
Shining in the darkness (gen)
Roguelikes-??? not sure which one
Mystery dungeon-AKA random dungeon generating games:
-Nightmare of Druaga,...any more?...-
DS games which I can't play::(
Izuna, Golden sun 2

P.S. Found Nightmare of Druaga new for 7 bucks! should get it next week sometime.:)

[Tygore]

No nominations for Fire Emblem? I know that the newer ones allow for random encounters and thus power leveling, but before that was introduced you only had so many enemies you could theoretically kill. Playing too poorly could render the game practically unbeatable.

[mrz84]

Ever try the Arc the Lad series? Of all the rpgs I've played, they've beenthe hardest so far. I've only played Twilight of Spirits, but I also own End of Darkness which I haven't played since I haven't beat ToS yet. The story is interesting and some characters are badass. :kitty:

[Sam Atoms]

Holy crap. I never played or even seen any of these roguelike games before. Now that's old school!

Thank you for mentioning roguelike games, you reminded me that there is the great granddaddy of them all. Rogue.



http://www.classicgaming.com/rotw/rogue2big.gif



You say hard? Try impossible. I've been banging my head against this one for well over a decade. I'd be surprised if even one game in 10,000 gets through.

[mikeron]

Have you tried FF1 with only white mages? That seems like it would be a challenge, or at least a pain in the ass.

[Gleeok]

Ever try the Arc the Lad series? Of all the rpgs I've played, they've beenthe hardest so far. I've only played Twilight of Spirits, but I also own End of Darkness which I haven't played since I haven't beat ToS yet. The story is interesting and some characters are badass. :kitty:

Was that the one where the human and demi were brothers, and the humans girl was a little goody goody, and the demi's girl was a complete evil hearted bitch? There were some odd characters in that one.
Got some more suggestions. 7th saga, Might and magic 3,Vagrant story, and Eye of the beholder.

P.S. Aren't the Fire emblem games in japanese?

[Cloral]

Some (but not all) were translated to English. But they always seemed like more of a strategy game than an RPG, in somewhat the same vein as Ogre Battle. But then again I've never played any of them so I don't really know.

7th Saga is another good one. At the start of the game you're given a choice of 7 characters, and the ones that you don't pick become your rivals. Whenever you face one, it's always at the same level as you, meaning that you can't level up for them. The regular enemies you face are also pretty hard. In the end, I didn't make it very far. I hear they made a sequel for it that was never released here.

[DarkDragoonX]

Was that the one where the human and demi were brothers, and the humans girl was a little goody goody, and the demi's girl was a complete evil hearted bitch? There were some odd characters in that one.
Got some more suggestions. 7th saga, Might and magic 3,Vagrant story, and Eye of the beholder.

P.S. Aren't the Fire emblem games in japanese?

The newer Fire Emblem games have been released in the US. Two GBA releases and a Gamecube release. Also, I recall an old Genesis game... Dungeons & Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun. Pretty difficult, and fun as hell, too.

Also, the Arc the Lad game you're referring to is the first PS2 game. For a better challenge, you want the original games, found in Working Desings' Arc the Lad Collection, containing the first three games. The first and third are fairly easy, but the second is a decent challenge. Note that since Working Designs is no longer with us (*sniff*... RIP), you'll probably have to scour eBay or Amazon to find a copy.

And while we're on the topic of Working Designs... Growlanser Generations, a compilation of Growlansers 2 and 3, is a good game to pick up as well, and isn't too hard to find used. Growlanser 2 is the harder of the two games, and is reasonably difficult. Oh, and the two Lunar PS1 remakes. They aren't difficult at all, but one of my primary goals in life is to get everybody to love Lunar as much as I do. So there.

The Genesis version of Shadowrun is both challenging as well as being fantastic (far, far better than the SNES version). If you aren't at least vaguely familiar with the Shadowrun PnP system, however, just figuring out how it works may be a bit of a block to your enjoyment of the game.

On the PC front, Betrayal at Krondor (released as freeware many years ago by Sierra to pump up hype for it's crappy sequel) is both pretty tough as well as being one of the best PC RPGs ever made. You'll need DOSbox to run it properly, but it's completely worth it.

EDIT:

Cloral: Yeah, I agree with you there. The Fire Emblem games really just strategy games with a few RPG elements.

[Gleeok]

On the PC front, Betrayal at Krondor (released as freeware many years ago by Sierra to pump up hype for it's crappy sequel) is both pretty tough as well as being one of the best PC RPGs ever made. You'll need DOSbox to run it properly, but it's completely worth it.

heh. looks like i found a use for fucking dosbox after all;P It looks awesome, and it's only 18 MB.

I've also downloaded Nethack, and got my ass thourohly kicked.

-Here's the results of my first two games.:(

No Points Name Hp [max]
1 454 drijhtrjdo-Kni-Hum-Mal-Law died in The Dungeons of
Doom on level 3. Killed by a brown mold. - [30]
2 227 sdfhhhafel-Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu died in The Gnomish Mines
on level 3. Killed by a hobbit. - [12]

If anybody for some reason wants to play an AD&D game on crack, check it out. The file size is tiny and it's easy to get started.

[mrz84]

I've played and beaten 7th Saga without any cheats. To me, it was a interesting and the ending surprised me. I choose the robot as my character and had the elf/sorceress chick join me. The final boss was only hard in that you had to use all 7 runes in a spectific order. I gave up trying to remember what I saw in Nintendo Power years ago after dying 3 times and just looked it up on gamefaqs. But ya, good game with a bit of difficulty. The Arc the Lad Collection is something I've been searching for for years at a low enough price and good enough shape. And as for Fire Emblem, it's different than Ogre Battle. In OB, you control units that can have several characters in them. In FE, your units are one character only. Similar concepts in gameplay, but still different a bit. :kitty:

[Gleeok]

I've played and beaten 7th Saga without any cheats.

I commend you. I don't know anyone else who didn't give up halfway through.
Personaly I used the elf mage, then had the robot join as his defense power is crazy high. Great minds think alike.

[mrz84]

.

I commend you. I don't know anyone else who didn't give up halfway through.
Personaly I used the elf mage, then had the robot join as his defense power is crazy high. Great minds think alike.

Actually, I just like robots and elf mage chicks, but seriously though I think they're the best combo in the game. I thought of the dwarf, but reconsidered it. :kitty:

[DarkDragoonX]

I was always a fan of the demon, myself.

Oh, and if you're looking to get started in Krondor, the Betrayal at Krondor Help Web (http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/krondor/krondor.html) has a prepatched version of the game to download, a copy of the manual, hints, Moredhel word lock solutions, and maps of the world. I really do recommend trying to complete the game without any assistance, but you'll be doing yourself a favor if you download the manual and give it a look-over.

[AlexMax]

Don't worry if roguelikes like nethack tend to be hard for you. It's not really your fault they're so hard, it's because they tend to rely on really fucking odd rules that can't really be figured out on your own without reading spoilers. How in the hell are you supposed to know to engrave 'Elbereth' in the floor for protection or that you can sacrifice monsters on an alter for favor with your god.

[DarkDragoonX]

Have you tried FF1 with only white mages? That seems like it would be a challenge, or at least a pain in the ass.

It's entirely possible to finish with just one white mage. Actually, the hardest game is with a single thief, but that's doable, as well.

As for going through with one or more white mages, it basically just slows the game down. Lots and lots of boring over leveling, punctuated with brief locations where you powerlevel relentlessly by spamming HARM against wave after wave of undead (such as a certain square in front of a chest in the Dark Elf's castle which as I recall spawns undead monsters (mummies or wights? Shades? I don't remember exactly) every time you step on it.

[DarkDragoonX]

... How in the hell are you supposed to know to engrave 'Elbereth' in the floor for protection or that you can sacrifice monsters on an alter for favor with your god.

Personally, I find you can generally find that sort of information in the manual (http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html).

EDIT: Well, crap. Thought I was editing my old post. Could some mod do me a huge favor and merge this with my last post?

EDIT #2: Actually, come to think of it, there ARE a lot of things in Nethack that aren't readily apparent. Still, I maintain that gives NetHack part of it's charm. For example, look at all the crap you can do/can have done to you by a single monster, the Cockatrice (http://www.geocities.com/dcorbett42/nethack/cockatrice.htm). Note if you're wearing gloves you can actually pick up a cockatrice corpse and turn your enemies into stone by beating them with it. It just doesn't get any better than that.

[Beldaran]

Man, I thought I was the only one who plowed through 7th Saga. That was a tough game only in the sense that you had to power level your ass off. Thank god for the zsnes fast forward button.

I wasted three months straight doing nothing but playing Betrayal at Krondor like 12 hours a day one summer. That game pwned me good. :)

[4matsy]

Note if you're wearing gloves you can actually pick up a cockatrice corpse and turn your enemies into stone by beating them with it. It just doesn't get any better than that.

...and then trip down some stairs and fall on said cockatrice corpse yourself, because you were weighed down with too many items.

Best RPG death method ever. :p

[Cloral]

And as for Fire Emblem, it's different than Ogre Battle. In OB, you control units that can have several characters in them. In FE, your units are one character only. Similar concepts in gameplay, but still different a bit. :kitty:

I only meant insomuch as both are strategy games with RPG elements. I'd seen enough of Fire Emblem to know it didn't work quite the same as Ogre Battle. I guess FFT would probably be a closer match for Fire Emblem than Ogre Battle.