OMG, Sony aren't making as much money!

[Darth Marsden]

Yeah, their profits have dropped by a whopping great 2 Billion Dollars! (http://kotaku.com/gaming/oh-snap/playstation-biz-almost-posted-2-billion-loss-260809.php) (Insert Doctor Evil little-finger hand gesture here)

...not much else to say, really.

Sony suck!

[Majora]

[Master_card_Commercial]

Buying a Sony Playstation3 and breaking it over your face: $600

Purchasing Vista and throwing your PC out the window: $100-something

Buying the Wii and maintaining your dignity: Priceless.

There are some thing you don't WANT to buy, for everything else, there's Nintendo. Accepted almost everywhere smart people live.
[/commercial]

If Sony was a person, I'd shoot it in the face for it's stupidity.

[MottZilla]

I hate non-retro Nintendo fanboys. Sorry, Nintendo isn't great anymore. And no Sony's not the devil. How is it that a story of them losing money makes the PS3 better or worse? It doesn't. It's pathetic to keep beating the dead horse that Sony is having problems and trying to say Nintendo is at the top of the world.

Nintendo fell from the top when they were de-throned by Sega Genesis briefly and never ever regained their previous dominance. Nintendo is not super amazing or the king of everything and Wii most certainly is not the best thing to happen to the game industry. It is not really new and innovative either. It has it's place but stop lieing to yourself thinking Nintendo is the king of the hill.

[The_Amaster]

First of all, most people here don't hate Sony for the PS3. It's mostly for their arrogence and complete stupidity.
And let's face it, with the Wii, Nintendo is rapidly starting to come back on top. Hyper graphics and amazing processing can't compete with good old fashioned, interesting gameplay. If Sony stops acting like General Motors and Ford and starts actually listening to their customer base, they'l have gone a long way to redeeming themselves in my eyes.

[MottZilla]

I've been here alot longer than you and am aware we have plenty of Nintendo fanboys that hate Sony. Sure as of late Sony has given some great points to attack but it's been heard more than enough.

Also, maybe you should "face it" that Nintendo isn't coming back with the Wii. Nintendo got it's well earned reputation in the mid to late 80s and into the early 90s. Nintendo's NES, SNES, and GameBoy were the top of their game. Nintendo will never reach the success of that era ever again in the home console market, though they have continued to do quite well with portables.

"Hyper graphics and amazing processing" alone don't mean anything if the game sucks, sure. But if you have a great game that takes advantage of cpu power and high-end graphics, it's definitely better than a game that lacks those. For example, many seem to forget the SNES featured far superior graphics & sound than the Genesis. People really can appreciate graphical detail probably more than anything else.

I hate how people think that the Wii is "the right direction" and the PS3 and 360 are apparently teh wrong direction. That's retarded. Many of these people don't understand there's alot of things you can do with more RAM and processing power you can't do or can't do as well without.

Also people shouldn't be arrogant like Nintendo or Sega or Sony as you see what that got them all.

[Glenn the Great]

Gameplay and hardware are two complementary factors which must be in balance. Nintendo's idea of promoting pure gameplay and no power is just as poor as the idea of being all graphics and no gameplay.

The Wii is not the correct direction for the future of gaming. If it is, I'm going to quit gaming. It's a nice offshoot to run alongside of gaming to provide as a complement, but it's not "it".

Right now, the XBox 360 and the PC are where real gaming is.

Nintendo's problem is that it is run by too many old men in suits who live in a fantasy world of idealism to the point of being out of touch with reality. Sometimes I feel like I'm listening to Willy Wonka when I hear these guys from Nintendo, Miyamoto especially.

From standing outside the Wii crowd, it almost looks like these guys are pretending they are still having their fun with the system so that they can maintain an acceptable image to be qualified to bash Sony. I've begun to see Wii owners cracking recently.

It's made me feel sort of sad to watch the Wii people delude themselves with their 1 or 2 worthwhile games, sucky Internet service, believing they are having some sort of Wii "experience", all the while throwing coins down the drain as they impulse-buy old games for the VC that they could be getting some other way for free.

[gdorf]

As far as I am concerned $250 is already an uncomfortable amount to spend on a console. Unless hardware becomes drastically more affordable, Nintendo is going in exactly the right direction by using the cheapest hardware available.

My favorite games are still for the SNES, NES, and PC. I fully understand the things that become available with extra CPU and Memory, Mottz, but those things really don't interest me. Hyper-realistic FPS's make me motion sick, anyway. :shrug:

When it comes to video games, I prefer the WoW philosophy: keep the graphics cartoonish and simple. Video games are not realistic enough to "trick" me into thinking they are real. Until that level of realism is reached, the akward "almost there" effect (read: G-Man in Hl2) just annoys me.


That said, I think the Wii is currently riding a bubble that will quickly pop if some more exciting, quality games don't come out.

For the time being my money is staying in my wallet. I'll still enjoy reading and commenting on Sony's miserable status as a console provider. And I think Nintendo has earned its temporary spot on the throne and I am happy to acknowledge that.


Edit: I lied, My money will actually go towards the PS2 games which can now be had for ~ $5.

[Glenn the Great]

As far as I am concerned $250 is already an uncomfortable amount to spend on a console.

I completely agree with you there. The Wii is overpriced for what you get, and Nintendo realizes this. I read that they wanted to sell it for much less, but the retailers threw a fit. If it cost $100-150 I'd be comfortable enough with it to buy it.


When it comes to video games, I prefer the WoW philosophy: keep the graphics cartoonish and simple.

This brings to mind an observation I made earlier this year. There is a long way that creative artistic talent can go towards making a mathematically inferior game visually appear to be greater than one which has the higher specs. A lot of times I feel that developers too often fall back on technology to make their games look better when better and more clever artwork could deliver the same improvement in visual quality. I was very impressed with WoW's Burning Crusade in how they managed to utilize WoW's cartoonish graphics to look truly beautiful in the non-barren Outland areas, and keep it running at a great framerate at all times on somewhat older machines.

[Darth Marsden]

I'm a Nintendo fan. Not a fanboy, just a fan. I freely admit they've had problems in the past. The N64 was overpriced and difficult to code for. The Gamecube was too cutesy and had little to distinguish it from its competitors. But with the Wii and the DS, they've hit on something. People like to get involved with their games. It's one think to move a joystick and hit a few buttons, but it's something completely different to have you control your character by just moving the remote or touching the screen itself. It's physical interaction, and it's fun. Pure, honest fun.

That's why I, and millions of others, like Ninty's latest consoles. Because they're FUN. Because you can do totally different types of games - Kororinpa, for example, or Brain Train. Games that are unique through the way that they're played. Nintendo clearly want to draw people in who wouldn't normally play video games, and that's what they've been doing.

Sony, on the other hand, have been doing the opposite. They haven't been trying to draw gamers in, they've been pushing them away for a variety of reasons. High prices, substandard services (though they are improving in that regard), Lack of decent games (again, getting better)... I won't get into that too much as it isn't the point I'm trying to make, but there are valid reasons for disliking them and their console.

I posted this article in a tongue in cheek manner. We all knew they were going to lose money on the PS3, but a loss of nearly 2 Billion Dollars (Insert Doctor Evil little-finger hand gesture)? That's huge, nobody can deny that. And while they may avoid losing that much next year, they've clearly had a hard time with this console. Again, getting off topic slightly, but the point still stands.

I like Nintendo because they make fun games. The other consoles have them as well, but Nintendo as a games manufacturer seems to have more then others, like UbiSoft and the like. Their consoles are far more interesting - I've long held the belief that we didn't need another set of consoles, and Nintendo are appealing to me with their not-so-next-gen graphics philosophy. Simply put, Nintendo are, in my personal belief, a lot more in touch with what people want then Sony, and it's three words - to have fun.

If I've missed the point you were trying to make, please let me know so I can rebut it properly.

EDIT: I'm looking at this from a gaming point of view. I don't want Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, simply because we don't need them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with good ol' DVDs, but the big companies are pushing forward because they want to. Which is why this image brought a smile to my face:
http://www.destructoid.com/elephant//ul/30577-ps3%20borked%20ad.jpg
Also, if you want a really in-depth look at the situation, you'd do well to read this thread (http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=revolution&message.id=3526782&view=by_date_ascending&page=6). Scroll down to WIGGYMASTER's post (it's where I got the image from, you can't miss it) and read on. I think it's pretty well said. I should also point out that in some of the other posts (notably the one at the bottom of page 6) there are some Spider-Man 3 spoilers. Be forewarned!

[MottZilla]

As Glenn also mentioned, I've seen the Wii bubble pop for many people. It did the same for me and I since sold my Wii system. And it's just like it were still here as I never really played it after the initial buying of it. Though I suppose that's not fair as I own a real next-gen system the Xbox 360.

$250 is too much for Wii clearly. And its entirely based on the previously neglected and now very dated GameCube. The improvements made would have been great last generation... I certainly agree Nintendo has found a niche with Wii, more so though with the Nintendo DS that it's no niche. But Nintendo's success in the portable market is no surprise to anyone. Wii has its place sitting next to your real next-gen system wether it be your PC, 360, or PS3. But without traditional control gaming with high quality titles, Wii can never be the real leader. And that's just not gonna happen either.

Also your comment about HD-DVD makes no sense. Xbox 360 does not include HD-DVD support, that is an add-on. Blu-ray support is certainly not needed sure. But you do realize you don't need your game systems at all right? You don't need a video game system better than the NES. But the market demands better technology.

Also your thing about the Wii controls being fun, yes they are amusing for awhile. But at the end of the day, I'd rather push the buttons and dpad or analog stick than move a stick and flail it around. Twirling around the Wiimote or using the twichy pointer or annoying nunchuck is never going to be my idea of gaming.

Right now the Xbox 360 is clearly the best of the new 3 systems. Wii and PS3 haven't really started up yet, though I would say PS3 is in better shape than the Wii. PS3 has Ninja Gaiden Sigma. ;)

[mrz84]

I personally just play whatever games interest me, no matter what system they've been on. Seeing people bash a system because they own a different one they believe is better than the other, is just people being idiots. Gaming is gaming. So stop the trash talk and bashing and just play your games. :kitty:

[Darth Marsden]

As Glenn also mentioned, I've seen the Wii bubble pop for many people. It did the same for me and I since sold my Wii system. And it's just like it were still here as I never really played it after the initial buying of it. Though I suppose that's not fair as I own a real next-gen system the Xbox 360. That's fair enough, though I bet a little bit of you wants another go at Wii Boxing though. Just a little bit.

$250 is too much for Wii clearly. And its entirely based on the previously neglected and now very dated GameCube. The improvements made would have been great last generation... I certainly agree Nintendo has found a niche with Wii, more so though with the Nintendo DS that it's no niche. But Nintendo's success in the portable market is no surprise to anyone. Wii has its place sitting next to your real next-gen system wether it be your PC, 360, or PS3. But without traditional control gaming with high quality titles, Wii can never be the real leader. And that's just not gonna happen either. Wii have deliberately set out to make a secondary console. Whether (you spelled it wrong :p) people actually believe it to be a secondary or a primary console is up to them, but bear in mind that you can buy a Wii and an XBox 360 for less then a PS3. Hmm!

Also your comment about HD-DVD makes no sense. Xbox 360 does not include HD-DVD support, that is an add-on. Blu-ray support is certainly not needed sure. But you do realize you don't need your game systems at all right? You don't need a video game system better than the NES. But the market demands better technology. What comment do you mean? That we don't need the next-generation of DVDs just yet? I don't particularly bash HD-DVD, I'm just saying that the PS3 is the only console that uses Blu-Ray, and from what I hear it'd be cheaper to put games that can't fit onto a duel-layer DVD onto two discs then to put them onto a single Blu-Ray disc. I may be wrong, but I'll bet you a shiny penny that I'm right.

Also your thing about the Wii controls being fun, yes they are amusing for awhile. But at the end of the day, I'd rather push the buttons and dpad or analog stick than move a stick and flail it around. Twirling around the Wiimote or using the twichy pointer or annoying nunchuck is never going to be my idea of gaming. I know exactly what you mean - I'd rather play a platformer with a joypad then a wiimote. But there are plenty of other types of game that make use of the wiimote in a variety of manners, and there's also the Virtual Console which lets you play older games with a more established controller should you so wish. Admittedly they're not going to be as pretty as PS3 games, but they're still fun. And, as mentioned, if you have the Wii as a side console, you can always switch to your primary and play that with a standard controller.

Right now the Xbox 360 is clearly the best of the new 3 systems. Wii and PS3 haven't really started up yet, though I would say PS3 is in better shape than the Wii. PS3 has Ninja Gaiden Sigma. ;) I can't stand stealth games. Advantage lost!
See bold text.

[AtmaWeapon]

Honestly you are kind of right but coming off with the same kind of attitude as a rabid fanboy Mott.

The analogy comparing Nintendo's management to Willy Wonka actually amuses me and is probably more accurate than they want it to be. I got my Wii, I played the Zelda game I bought it for, and I've played a few other fun games, but I was actually just thinking the other day that out of all the games I wish I had right now almost all of them are either DS or PS2 games. Quirky gameplay has its place but I kind of want some traditional gaming mixed in as well.

I still don't really think the hardware was a bad choice since Nintendo obviously was shooting for 2nd place this round. They kept their costs low and make development of games a tad easier by doing this, which translates to a lower cost to the consumer. You can whine all you want about the $250 price tag but I remember the $200 SNES pretty clearly and that was worth every penny.

You seem particularly hostile towards the Wii and I just can't figure out why. Nintendo never claimed it would surpass the 360 or PS3. Nintendo made it a point to emphasize the difference in control style the Wii would bring about. Honestly the way I see it Nintendo is much more honest about their business model than the other developers are; from where I see it the game industry is about selling you the same thing repeatedly. Nintendo laid out the reasons why a Nintendo fan would want a Wii from the start: a new Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and Super Smash Brothers. Everything else on the system is just kind of whatever gets there. If you expected more you must have read the wrong magazine or something.

One problem is, though I want an XBox 360, the investment seems unsound. Suppose I spend about $400 on my XBox 360 system. There's not a heck of a lot I can do with it until I get some games, but there's not a whole lot of games that interest me on the system and those that do have limited replay value. I'd get Urban Dead, Crackdown, and maybe a few others but then I'd be $600 in the hole and in the same spot I am with the Wii: wondering why on earth I paid so much for a game console that has only a small set of games that interest me. On the other hand, I bought a Wii and a few games and even though I'm not entirely satisfied I'm only down about $350.

Next-gen games are pretty but I don't really like the genres that are popular right now. Nintendo still comes out with a winner from time to time, and as long as there's a Metroid or Zelda to play I'll be content since I do happen to like those games. There's just not a whole lot out there that is making me pitch an underwear tent. Gaming is an expensive hobby and I'm seeing less and less reason to keep funding it.

[Aegix Drakan]

I'm not totally anti sony, just so you know.

I actually considered getting a PS2 a while back, but never did.

it's just that with the release of the PS3, Sony has done nothing but shoot themselves in th efoot. Repeatedly.

Also, I do agree that the Wii needs some killer games very soon. I'm talking Brawl, Corruption, and a decent RPG or two.

And sure, nintendo may be run by a bunch of Willy wonka Idealists, but I don't think that's always a bad thing.

For one thing, nintendo's first games are almost always amazing. and a lot of second party stuff is good too.

Soo...yeah, I trust nintendo more then Snoy when it comes to gaming, although if the XBOX360 had some really good games, I might look into it.

>_> And if someone want to flame me for being a Nintendo fanboy, then flame away. I plead guilty to the third degree.

[The_Amaster]

I agree that stability wise, the 360 is the way to go. It's combines good gameplay with good graphics. PS3 and Wii went to the opposite extremes, and I just happen to be an extremist. I try to be as pacifistic as possible, and so I go Nintendo, because it has the most non-violent games. And weather the Wii is constantly fun or not, no one can argue that it just about shattered the mold.

(BTW, are we talking good Gene Wilder fun and creative Willy Wonka, or creepy wierd Depp Willy Wonka, who was just bizzare?)

[MottZilla]

Darth, no I didn't care for Wii boxing. I don't want another go at it.

About Blu-ray, yes it would be cheaper to use multipule DVD9 discs, however you should realize that Sony including Blu-ray in the system is an investment. Because of this it will make the price of Blue laser technology go down and be very nice later on. You have to start sometime. Also, High Definition movies are very nice and you would want them if you enjoy movies and have a high-def TV.

No, there aren't "plenty of games that use the wiimote in different manners. There are a limited amount of functions that are roughly the same. Virtual Console doesn't interest me. If I wanted to play with a "more established controller" I would use the ones the original games used. If the Wii won't have new games that use a traditional controller, what good is it? You can't just have wiimote games, you must have traditional games too.

Ninja Gaiden is not a stealth game at all. It is still an action platformer. It also ownz your soul. :O

Atma, the rabidness is required due to the overly pro-Nintendo-no-matter-what atmosphere we tend to have. The hostility torwards Wii and Nintendo is because this is the second time Nintendo blew it. Remember back when the new console codename Dolphin was upcoming and everything looked like it would come together? Ya they fucked that one up. Then we have the Wii, same thing, and honestly it was way overhyped for what it is.

Your SNES for 200$ comment makes no sense. Sega Genesis cost roughly the same as the SNES throughout the generation. Also the SNES wasn't a gimped console compared to the Genesis, it was a graphics and audio powerhouse. The SNES has no similarities whatsoever with the Wii. Lets start with the fact that the SNES was a totally fucking awesome console and Wii isn't even close.

Maybe the problem is that, I'm a fan of Nintendo from 1983 to 1996 or so. That must be it. The Wii for me costs too much at 250$ with little to offer me. The Xbox 360 that I paid 400$ for was pricey but has been worth the money as it's provided me a whole lot of entertainment and countless gaming hours. I think the easiest way to tell you why I don't like Wii would be this. I like video games. I like shooters, platformers, racing, fighting and arcade games. Wii doesn't have any traditional games like those. Everything must brutally incorperate Wiimote functions. Excite Truck was indeed fun racing, but that's it. There are no good shooters, first person, side scrolling, or otherwise. There are no real fighters, no platformers, certainly no arcade ports. The system has no games and doesn't really support traditional gaming. Resident Evil 4, a GameCube game is one of few titles that actually can be controlled normally. Metal Slug anthology is there too. That's amazing, 2 games I've already played.

Aegix, buy a PS2 if you haven't played no doubt many games in the PS1 and PS2 library you will like. Seriously the Playstation 2 is really a core system to have for any recent gamer with its giant game library.

AMaster, aren't we on opposite sides then, I love violent games. Tell you what I'll play both our shares of violent games and you can play both our shares of Mario Party. ;p No offense to you or Mario Party, but Nintendo's latest offerings just don't have any magic to them anymore.

[Cloral]

I think the problem is the Wii isn't really designed to appeal to you. It appeals to people like my parents. People who will sit down to play every once in a while for something to pass the time. People for whom all this crazy timed button pressing is just too much. For them, being able to bowl by swinging the remote in a way that resembles real bowling is a big deal. It also doesn't matter that much that there aren't that many games for it yet, as they're not the type that would buy a whole bunch of games. I, on the other hand, want to see something more. I just finished Paper Mario, and I don't forsee there being anything much more I'll want to play on it until at least the end of summer. Does this mean it's going to sit next to my tv for the next 3 months gathering dust? Probably. But the same thing happened with my 360 for a while, and now I'm playing it all the time - arcade games on live, halo 2, halo 3 beta, MLB 2k7 online league, and even enchanted arms. So I think that the same thing will happen with the wii. Certainly once Prime 3 comes out I'll be playing that a lot. But in the end, I don't know that it matters much anyway. I think Nintendo has already accomplished what they set out to do - appeal to a broader audience.

[Orion]

Personally, I think gaming in general is going down the crapper. I had a 360, wasn't that impressed with it, and sold it. I have a Wii, and I'm not that impressed with it at the moment, either. I haven't played an actual Wii game in well over a month. I think it says something that all of the consoles have features to download retro games, because all of the "new" (read: re-hashed sequels) games are getting stale. I hardly buy new games anymore, I usually rent. I really don't think gaming is going to continue going in it's current direction for much longer. The only games that really capture my attention are short, pick-up-and-play games like Mario Kart and Katamari, for example. Which is why, honestly, I play my DS more than anything else. And the trends in Japan seem to agree with me.

[Brasel]

I agree with Orion here...gaming is starting to suck. Over the last year, I haven't really been able to get myself hooked to a new console game other than Final Fantasy XII and Twilight Princess. Alll I really play anymore are old games I've beaten a million times and GBA games, and the GBA games are all remakes. I bought a Wii, but I haven't played it for more than a couple of hours since I beat Twilight Princess back in March. Every night when I get home from work, its a constant struggle to find a game to keep me busy. My wife and I have slowly been working our way out of the house at night, finding normal people things to do like going to see local bands play or seeing movies or anything that isn't playing video games. I miss the SNES, thats all there is to it. GBA is my last remaining shred of joy when it comes to video games anymore. Games just aren't fun anymore.

[MottZilla]

Games just aren't fun anymore.

They are still fun, you're just playing the wrong ones.

[Darth Marsden]

Darth, no I didn't care for Wii boxing. I don't want another go at it. Not even a little bit? You have no soul!

About Blu-ray, yes it would be cheaper to use multipule DVD9 discs, however you should realize that Sony including Blu-ray in the system is an investment. Because of this it will make the price of Blue laser technology go down and be very nice later on. You have to start sometime. Also, High Definition movies are very nice and you would want them if you enjoy movies and have a high-def TV. That's all well and good, but it doesn't stop the fact that we don't need next-gen DVDs. Seriously, we've only recently managed to get most people to convert from VHS to DVD, and now we're giving them not one but two upgrades? That's just confusing and unnecessary.

No, there aren't "plenty of games that use the wiimote in different manners. There are a limited amount of functions that are roughly the same. Virtual Console doesn't interest me. If I wanted to play with a "more established controller" I would use the ones the original games used. If the Wii won't have new games that use a traditional controller, what good is it? You can't just have wiimote games, you must have traditional games too. I will concede on this one somewhat, but surely you must have known what you were getting into when you purchased the system in the first place? And while the Virtual Console isn't perfect, are you really telling me you have a NES, Genesis, SNES, N64, TurboGrafx-16, MSX, and a Neo Geo lying around your home? I doubt it.

Ninja Gaiden is not a stealth game at all. It is still an action platformer. It also ownz your soul. :O It features Ninjas. Hence, stealth. :p Actually I don't have an XBox, so I haven't played any Ninja Gaiden games and the new one, which I hear is little more then a remake, still doesn't interest me. So not only do I still own my soul, but I've put it in a glass jar and entrusted it to Satan himself. It's like to see your fancy 'ninja' steal it from him.

Atma, the rabidness is required due to the overly pro-Nintendo-no-matter-what atmosphere we tend to have. The hostility torwards Wii and Nintendo is because this is the second time Nintendo blew it. Remember back when the new console codename Dolphin was upcoming and everything looked like it would come together? Ya they fucked that one up. Then we have the Wii, same thing, and honestly it was way overhyped for what it is. It was overhyped as a secondary console? Is that even possible? And I've already admitted the Gamecube wasn't perfect. Doesn't mean it wasn't still fun. Y'know, 'cause it was.

Your SNES for 200$ comment makes no sense. Sega Genesis cost roughly the same as the SNES throughout the generation. Also the SNES wasn't a gimped console compared to the Genesis, it was a graphics and audio powerhouse. The SNES has no similarities whatsoever with the Wii. Lets start with the fact that the SNES was a totally fucking awesome console and Wii isn't even close. 1. Initially sold for a price of US$199, the North American package included the game Super Mario World. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System) 2. Just because the Genesis was released earlier, doesn't mean it didn't have great games. Sonic, Ristar, Phantasy Star, Kid Chameleon, Beyond Oasis, Comix Zone, Golden Axe, Toe Jam and Earl, Vectorman, World of Illusion... need I go on? Power isn't always everything. Also, if you compare the Wii with the XBox 360, there's a lot of similarities between it and the Genesis/SNES rivalry. Finally, the Wii is an awesome console. It's just not for you.

Maybe the problem is that, I'm a fan of Nintendo from 1983 to 1996 or so. That must be it. The Wii for me costs too much at 250$ with little to offer me. The Xbox 360 that I paid 400$ for was pricey but has been worth the money as it's provided me a whole lot of entertainment and countless gaming hours. I think the easiest way to tell you why I don't like Wii would be this. I like video games. I like shooters, platformers, racing, fighting and arcade games. Wii doesn't have any traditional games like those. Everything must brutally incorperate Wiimote functions. Excite Truck was indeed fun racing, but that's it. There are no good shooters, first person, side scrolling, or otherwise. There are no real fighters, no platformers, certainly no arcade ports. The system has no games and doesn't really support traditional gaming. Resident Evil 4, a GameCube game is one of few titles that actually can be controlled normally. Metal Slug anthology is there too. That's amazing, 2 games I've already played. No games? Bollocks. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games) And brutally is a very strong word - a lot of those games incorporate the wiimote pretty damned well. However, as I've said before I prefer playing platformers with a standard controller and I can easily see how others might as well. It's a matter of preference, really.

Aegix, buy a PS2 if you haven't played no doubt many games in the PS1 and PS2 library you will like. Seriously the Playstation 2 is really a core system to have for any recent gamer with its giant game library. Seconded. You can grab them cheap now that the PS3 is out (sic) and there's literally hundreds of games out there, with new ones still coming out. Don't miss out, or I'll have to ridicule you. And you don't want that :D

AMaster, aren't we on opposite sides then, I love violent games. Tell you what I'll play both our shares of violent games and you can play both our shares of Mario Party. ;p No offense to you or Mario Party, but Nintendo's latest offerings just don't have any magic to them anymore. So you don't think Zelda Twilight Princess doesn't have the Nintendo magic? Or Super Paper Mario? Or any one of the other games they've released? Well, that's entirely up to you, though I personally have to disagree.
Again, see bold text.

[rock_nog]

*shrug* I haven't found anything to complain about yet with my Wii... Maybe the big games that haven't been released yet, maybe the stupidity of how third parties are handling it, but other than that, not much. Then again, I mean I don't have the kind of money to just go dropping on tons of games, so there are still like three or four out now that I want but don't have. I can certainly understand the frustration with the lack of new games, but I don't mind, 'cause I can't even keep up with games that have already been released.

As far as virtual console is concerned, am I the only person that doesn't own all of those systems? I mean, I lost my SNES when I was still a kid, so for me, it's great to be able to download SNES games, especially all the ones that I didn't own as a kid. Maybe I'm just not hardcore enough to understand? Also, yeah there's emulation, but it's illegal and it sucks to run games on my computer (my screen is small, my gamepad sucks, and even if I owned a decent gamepad, which still wouldn't be nearly as good as the classic controller, my computer's slow and the gameplay wouldn't be smooth).

The other thing is, and I think this is a big thing, I can't play games the way I used to. I can't sit down for five hours or whatever at a time and play through epic games. I play my Wii a lot simply because I can load it up, play a game of tennis or Super Mario Bros. or whatever, spend like 10-15 minutes, have fun, and walk away. I just don't have the attention span I used to, honestly.

Before I go, just wanted to comment on power real quick. Firstly, I don't own HD, so I don't know how much graphics would actually be improved on my TV by owning a 360 or a PS3. Secondly, I agree with the sentiment that art direction does so much more than power in terms of graphics. I mean, a game with good art direction, you're not going to care what the power of the system is, 'cause it's going to look darn good despite limitations. Finally, will any of this matter in 5-10 years? People don't look at the big picture. Maybe it's because there's always a new system out, the companies treat us like we're supposed to get bored and forget that the old one even existed, but I personally intend to keep playing Wii far into the future. I still play my NES, right? Anyway, once the next new generation of consoles is out, will the power of the Wii even matter? I mean, a SNES is more powerful than an NES, but does that nobody plays NES because the SNES is better?

Sorry to sound like a big Nintendo fanboy, but I'm just trying to make the point that I genuinely like the Wii, and I don't see the flaws that apparently others do. Oh, and I love the Wiimote... Gives me something to be distracted by so I don't get bored with games so quickly... Actually, I've had a hard time going back to regular controllers.

[vegeta1215]

Really good post rock_nog.

Me, I was and am still very happy with my Gamecube. I still bought all my Nintendo favs, but I expanded and got into some new franchises whose sequels I will surely buy. Was I bummed out that some interesting games I wanted to play didn't come to Gamecube? Sure, but it doesn't make me angry.

I've only had my Wii a few weeks, but I have been very impressed with it. It is a slick piece of technology, and I really like the motion stuff. I only have Wii Sports right now, but will have Super Paper Mario soon, and there are several other games I want to play and am looking forward to. I already own an NES, SNES, and N64, but the Virtual console provides a really easy way for me to play those games I miss, or ones I owned that I sold, or ones I would have a more difficult time finding now. I think it's great.

Like rock_nog, I cannot play games like I used to. I still enjoy long epic games like Zelda, but I also really enjoy short bursts of game play - I think that's why the Game and Watch Gallery games clicked with me so well. So for me, the Wii offers both types of games I want to play.

Do I think the hardware limitations will prevent Nintendo from getting certain multiplatform games? Sure, there's no question. Am I going to be bitter about it? No way. If I really wanted to play them, I could buy a 360. It's silly to expect that every game is going to be on every console, especially considering "next-gen" consoles much more different under the hood.

It's not worth fighting for if you ask me. As far as Sony is concerned, their way is a different business strategy. It may be hurting them now, but it may pay off in the future. We don't know yet. All I know is I'll be enjoying my Wii.

[The_Amaster]

I agree that until we get some good gams(Brawl and Corruption) in particular, there isn't much to do on the Wii besides sports and TP. However, I still like the Wii for several reasons. For one thing, it makes FPS a lot easier(Yes, despite my earlier comment I do occasionaly play FPS) I mean, one of my problems with the genre as a whole would be that I'd be facing down like eight enemies converging on me at once, in the adrenaline I'd tap the stick just a bit over and the next thing you knew, my camera was swinging out of control looking at some distand cliff face and while I re-orient myself, I lose half my health. (Whew, all one*digital* breath) I do think, however, that the DS has been Nintendos best console. The SNES-64y graphics are great for a handheld, and you can do sooo much with a touch screen.

[MottZilla]

Only recently upgraded from VHS to DVD? DVD came out in late 1999 or early 2000. We've had plenty of time to play with DVD. Why is it too early to make movie discs that take advantage of High-Definition TVs? You do realize High-Definition isn't too early. We've been stuck with a relatively crappy standard for awhile now that has been looking even worse as time goes on. It's certainly time for High-Def and you need movies to go with that. However I don't agree with the higher price of the HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies. They should cost the same as DVDs. In time they should get there.

And yes I really do have a NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. laying around. I don't have a MSX or NeoGeo console but I have a Xbox that can emulate it better than the Wii ever will.

I don't know why you brought up the Genesis. And no there is no similarity between the SNES/Genesis and the Wii/X360. The SNES had a slower processor but far better graphics and sound capabilities. The Genesis had a faster processor but far inferior graphics and sound capabilities. The Wii has fucking dwarfed processing and graphics capabilties with a motion sensing controller. The Xbox 360 has modern processing and graphical capabilities with high definition. How's this similar to Genesis/SNES?

I didn't play Super Paper Mario, it looks amusing though. I did play Twlight Princess. I lost interest and did not finish or get far. I said fuck it and went to play Gears of War.

Amaster, no the Wii most certainly does NOT make FPS games easier. It makes them tedious and slow. If you ask anyone that plays alot of shooters they will tell you the Wiimote seemed like it had potential but the fact is it sucks compared to the high standards most expect.

[Cloral]

Heh, it looks like I'm the only one who wasn't totally sold on Twilight Princess. When I was playing it, I frequently had the feeling of 'been there, done that'. I think it's really time for them to do something different with the Zelda franchise.

As for Paper Mario, it was fun, but it felt like it didn't belong on the Wii. The controls were like on the NES, except for a couple wii-mote actions that felt totally tacked on (seriously, shake your remote when you kill an enemy to get a 10% exp boost?). It's still a good game, but I kinda wish they hadn't tried to pretend it was a Wii game by taking on those pointless Wii-mote actions.

Which just leaves Sonic, which I actually ended up enjoying a whole lot. The controls were imprecise, and I frequently found Sonic doing things I didn't want him to do. But it was clearly built around the Wii hardware, and used the controller to great effect (thrusting the remote at the screen to do the homing attack may sound gimmicky, but it really worked well). It also had pretty good graphics - by far the best I've seen on the Wii. So I think Sonic proves that good, longer-playing games can work perfectly fine on the Wii. The controls may have been rough, but I think that time and experience with the console will help to smooth them out. Remember how poor the controls were on some of the earlier 3d games? Half the time you couldn't see what you were doing because the camera would get stuck behind a wall. But with time and experience, developers have learned how to deal with the issues unique to 3d. Nowadays it would seem weird to ask them to abandon 3d gaming. So give developers a chance to learn how to work with the Wii, and then I think we'll see some really great things out of it. In the meantime, the 360 still offers some really solid gameplay in a more traditional fashion.

edit:
I guess I wasn't the only one who didn't totally like TP after all

[The_Amaster]

Well, maybe for you than, a controller is better. But I have an easier time hitting a spot the size of a quarter when I can aim manualy, rather than just fiddle with a joysitck and try to get it close.

And of course TP wasn't what you all wanted, because everyone expected another OoT, and when your standards are impossibly high, everythings a dissapointment(yes, I feel TP suffered from some over hype) A good game, yes. A miracle of modern game engineering, no.

[biggiy05]

I only skimmed through posts so maybe I missed it somewhere but in my opinion gaming isn't totally down the drain yet. PC gaming has gone up and down over the years and at the moment it's slowed down but there are games coming out in the near future for it. As for FPS games, I'll always take WASD and a mouse over a controller.

Just a biased opinion from a pc gamer.

[War Lord]

Do people think the PS3 is a failure because of it's sales?
The 360 sold less in it's first 3 months than the PS3 has.
The PS3 has also outsold what the PS1 and PS2 did in their first 3 months as well.

The PS3 simply isn't living up to the hype that was created. When you follow up a system with the success of the PS2, you're going to have that happen, every time.

If Nintendo can't deliver the goods, and by goods I mean third party support, and online play, it doesn't matter.

What really is important is what games matter to you, and with console exclusives going away and we see more multi-platform games(which we should, as it only means more money for the developers and publishers), we will see consoles shine for the reason they should. First Party titles and overall third party support.

[Darth Marsden]

Only recently upgraded from VHS to DVD? DVD came out in late 1999 or early 2000. We've had plenty of time to play with DVD. Why is it too early to make movie discs that take advantage of High-Definition TVs? You do realize High-Definition isn't too early. We've been stuck with a relatively crappy standard for awhile now that has been looking even worse as time goes on. It's certainly time for High-Def and you need movies to go with that. However I don't agree with the higher price of the HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies. They should cost the same as DVDs. In time they should get there. Well, adverts have only recently stopped saying 'On DVD and Video now'. What I meant is that most people I know have a DVD player rather then a VHS one - even my grandparents have switched, and that's saying something. Having finally converted most of the populace, it now seems like we're going up to them and saying 'Nope, that's outdated. You need Blu-Ray/HD-DVD now. I don't care if you've only just gone DVD, you're slow and need to upgrade NOW!'. I'm exaggerating of course, but I do that with everything. Big freakin' deal.

And yes I really do have a NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. laying around. I don't have a MSX or NeoGeo console but I have a Xbox that can emulate it better than the Wii ever will. Fair enough. Having them all on one console has gotta take up less space by your TV though, right?

I don't know why you brought up the Genesis. And no there is no similarity between the SNES/Genesis and the Wii/X360. The SNES had a slower processor but far better graphics and sound capabilities. The Genesis had a faster processor but far inferior graphics and sound capabilities. The Wii has fucking dwarfed processing and graphics capabilties with a motion sensing controller. The Xbox 360 has modern processing and graphical capabilities with high definition. How's this similar to Genesis/SNES? One was released after the other, and yet they've both had great games, both had pointless add-ons, both had huge fan bases and both made their respective companies a lot of money. Hmm!

I didn't play Super Paper Mario, it looks amusing though. I did play Twlight Princess. I lost interest and did not finish or get far. I said fuck it and went to play Gears of War. At least you tried it. I have to admit, I did the same thing - I gave up about halfway through the game. I will go back and finish it one day, though.

Amaster, no the Wii most certainly does NOT make FPS games easier. It makes them tedious and slow. If you ask anyone that plays alot of shooters they will tell you the Wiimote seemed like it had potential but the fact is it sucks compared to the high standards most expect. Which FPS did you try? Actually, I think there's only Red Steel out at the moment, and that's hardly conclusive proof. Give Metroid Prime Corruption a go when that comes out and see what you think - if anyone's gonna make a kick-ass FPS on the Wii, it'll be a second party.
For what I hope is the final time, see bold text.

biggiy05 - You're right, gaming is not dead. It's just evolving. As we get older, we tend to get tired of the same old games (WWII Shooters, Fantasy RPGs, etc), so we move on to other things, like reading, TV, going out. Younger gamers, people who haven't played the genres to death and still enjoy them, are eventually going to get tired of them as well. It happens.

But, like I say, games can still draw us in if they change. If they become more interactive. I'm still hopeful that we'll have proper Virtual Reality gaming, and the Wii is a great step forward to that. You have an avatar which you actually control with your movements, not just by pushing a button of a control stick. Hopefully the next gen of consoles will take that even further, and with any luck at all we'll have proper VR gaming within 10 years or so. That, I think, will be the ultimate gaming experience, and it's the sort of thing that less people will get bored with, simply because you really are the hero. Everyone likes to be the hero, right? Yeah, though so.

War Lord: Good to see you getting involved with the masses. :p I don't think I ever said the PS3 was a failure as such, just not as well designed as its competitors. I'm sure I'll eventually get one when the price comes way down and there's a shedload of games for it, but for the time being, I, and a fair number of other people, don't really see the point of getting one. I don't want a Blu-Ray DVD player, I won't be taking it online and above all, I just don't have the money.

I like Nintendo because they have great first party titles. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Sonic (kind of), and so on. I like their games. As you say, that's what's important and that's what I'll continue to buy my consoles for, and so far the Wii has far more titles that interest me then the other next-gen consoles, which is why I want it. Simple as.

[Orion]

And of course TP wasn't what you all wanted, because everyone expected another OoT, and when your standards are impossibly high, everythings a dissapointment.

No, I didn't expect another OoT. I didn't want another OoT. TP basically *was* OoT. I wanted something new. TP was stale, I've played that game 4-5 times already.

And I think the reason why a lot of Wii games don't seem fresh is because they aren't even Wii games. Super Paper Mario was originally a GameCube game, and a lot of the other games are just GameCube games with Wii controls tacked on. I would feel a lot better about buying the Wii if there was an original game or two out for it.

[vegeta1215]

Twilight Princess was entertaining, and had a lot of things going for it, but it could've been so much better. I really think it had the potential to best OoT. But, it is easily the worse of the 3D Zeldas.

[ShadowTiger]

Twilight Princess was entertaining, and had a lot of things going for it, but it could've been so much better. I really think it had the potential to best OoT. But, it is easily the worse of the 3D Zeldas.

I'm sort of afraid to ask, .. but .. on what scale is this judgment being made? o.o?

[mrz84]

I'm sort of afraid to ask, .. but .. on what scale is this judgment being made? o.o?

I'm must agree, how could it be the worst 3-d zelda? I can't see that happening. It ties with Majora's Mask as #2 3D Zelda gam in my mind. :kitty:

[Cloral]

I'm must agree, how could it be the worst 3-d zelda?

Because it didn't really bring anything new to the table. As much as a lot of you hated the sailing in Wind Waker, at least it made the game different.

I think one of the big problems for me was the linearity of the dungeons. You have this big dungeon, but in the end through their placement of keys, switches, and treasures, you pretty much are forced to go through the dungeon on a certain path. That gets boring.

[mrz84]

Because it didn't really bring anything new to the table. As much as a lot of you hated the sailing in Wind Waker, at least it made the game different.

I think one of the big problems for me was the linearity of the dungeons. You have this big dungeon, but in the end through their placement of keys, switches, and treasures, you pretty much are forced to go through the dungeon on a certain path. That gets boring.

I actually liked sailing around. Helped kill time between figureines before I decided to get the Song of Passing.

As for the big dungeon and such, I guess I have to agree that it does get kinda boring doing one single path all the time, though it does help you memorize it so you can try to see how fast you can go through the game. :kitty:

[Cloral]

I agree. I liked the sailing and treasure hunting. But a lot of people bemoaned it.

And even though the dungeons in WW were also largely linear, they felt a lot more inspired. There was something fun and unique about them that the ones in TP lacked. Don't ask me what exactly, as I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Glenn the Great]

You know, back in the SNES days, my vision for the future of gaming was that in the future, with better systems, we'd see larger and larger 2D adventures. I was content with the graphical style, and wanted to see people make advances in how much content they could make.

It seems the developers are just interested in making prettier graphics with each iteration, and the substance takes a back seat. I think this focus on visual over content has discouraged the people who can make good content from gaining much influence in the game companies. People just don't know how to make good scenarios anymore, and that's what's wrong with a lot of the newer games.

I maintain that the Zelda style of play has much more untapped potential. It's just being clumsily wielded by the current developers.

[Orion]

You know, back in the SNES days, my vision for the future of gaming was that in the future, with better systems, we'd see larger and larger 2D adventures. I was content with the graphical style, and wanted to see people make advances in how much content they could make.

I know exactly what you mean. I'd take a game with the original OoT or LTTP engine if it had a constantly expanding adventure, or a living community. I'd take Super Mario Kart if it featured online play and new downloadable tracks. Instead we get the same games, just prettier.

And I'm not all into being a completionist and seeing how fast I can get through a game. There should be better reasons for playing through a game after you've beaten it. I'm not going to waste 20 more hours collecting heart pieces and bugs, because it gets me nothing. No extra ending, no special item, nothing.

[rock_nog]

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who enjoyed the sailing in WW. It really was fun... I also got a blast out of exploring the islands. I just wish there had been more/bigger islands to explore. Really, I found myself disappointed with Twilight Princess, if only because it didn't seem there was really much to explore beyond the beaten path. I kept hoping there would be new areas to explore, ones that weren't crucial to the game, but there was nothing. *sigh*

[vegeta1215]

I'm must agree, how could it be the worst 3-d zelda? I can't see that happening. It ties with Majora's Mask as #2 3D Zelda gam in my mind. :kitty:

For me, the charm is not there, and that's what makes a Zelda game to me. Thank goodness for Midna though - she is one of the few redeeming things about that game, but her charm along is not enough.

Personally I think Nintendo just got lost in trying to make this huge game that was supposed to be better than OoT, and forgot what Zelda is about. Zelda is not about dungeons, it is about character and personality. Wind Waker, despite it's downsides (few dungeons, sailing can be boring etc), has so much character and personality.



You know, back in the SNES days, my vision for the future of gaming was that in the future, with better systems, we'd see larger and larger 2D adventures. I was content with the graphical style, and wanted to see people make advances in how much content they could make.

I know it is not quite the same as a "regular" Zelda game, but Four Swords Adventures of the Gamecube is so much fun and touches on your ideas. It can be played alone, but it is a blast with others.