Virginia Tech shooting...

[moocow]

Story here. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266310,00.html)

Anyone know how to get ahold of deathbyhokie? Doesn't he go there, or has he already graduated? Any idea at all?

Also, what's with all these crazy people shooting up schools? For real.

Just heard on tv, 22 dead, 28 injured... Gunman shot himself.

Scary.

[bigjoe]

Bah, they always say the gunman shot themselves to take the blame off of the police.

I just watched a cell phone video showing some of the action. It was indeed pretty scary.

[Lilith]

I just saw this on the news :( Fucked up. The shooting-up-random-colleges thing is getting weird... I hope dbh is okay. Also, 22 people dead = lots of people-shooting practice? Wtf.

[Beldaran]

Fuck that stupid ass hole who did that. Fuck him.

[Aegix Drakan]

...

Another one? Why the fuck do these idiots go around shooting up schools? It's just sickening....

My heart goes out to anyone injured (or who knows someone injured) in the attack.

[moocow]

Bah, they always say the gunman shot themselves to take the blame off of the police.

I just read that it's unclear whether the gunman shot himself or if the police shot him...

[Rainman]

...

Another one? Why the fuck do these idiots go around shooting up schools? It's just sickening....


Somewhere along the line they decide that it's better to be known for a horrible tragedy than to wallow in obscurity. It's the same thing that has driven a lot of high profile violence like the JFK assassination and Columbine.

This is truly horrible.

[Gerudo]

i was just keeping tabs on the news, and the death toll has risen to 32 dead at this point.

reading ticker at the bottom (FoxNews), although i didn't quite catch itn, but it said something to the effect of the shooter might have been looking for his girlfriend (this is unconfirmed, just something i thought i saw).

[Darth Marsden]

32's what I heard as well. I caught this a couple of hours ago before I went over to babysit someone who insisted on watching Coronation Street (Shock! Someone who'd worked 20 hours straight fell down a set of steps and died!), so I haven't had a chance to learn more.

Sky News has this down as 'The worst School shooting incident in the US', which is a little worrying by what that statement doesn't include. Have we had worse elsewhere?

Honestly though, how could someone do something like this? 32 lives snuffed out just by the pulling of a piece of metal. It's a scary thought.

[Beldaran]

32 lives snuffed out just by the pulling of a piece of metal.

http://jameswagner.com/mt_archives/Atomic%20Bomb.gif

Unfortunately, 32 lives in one day is peanuts compared to what humans have achieved in the past and are reaching towards in the future.

[MottZilla]

Isn't that the truth.

It's pretty horrible from what I've heard so far. But we've seen this sort of thing happen so many times. We already know what to expect. And honestly I doubt this person or any of the other shooters were actually good/accurate shooters. People like in the media just seem to assume these people were deadly trained killers. The primary reason firearms came about was because they are so horribly easy to use. It takes alot of skill and strength, not to mention time to train something like an archer. But you can just give anyone a gun and tell them point this end at what you want to die and squeeze your finger.

[deathbyhokie]

< Is ok

Figured i'd alleviate any worry amongst those who still remeber me. I'm no where near campus anymore.

[moocow]

< Is ok

Figured i'd alleviate any worry amongst those who still remeber me. I'm no where near campus anymore.

YOU WERE THE FIRST PERSON I THOUGHT OF!

I was sitting here like, "Omg, DBH!" and one of my co-workers looked at me funny. Ha.

Glad you'e far away.

[Plissken]

Man this is insane. When the Columbine shootings happened I was only in elementry school but still lived 5 minutes from there. Now I move to Virginia and live about an hour from VA Tech. Good thing I'm only in high school *shudders*. It has been insane here in Virginia today. Almost every single channel is broadcasting reports about this and everyone is freaking out. Yup it's been one nasty monday here.

[The_Amaster]

The police were really stupid here. I mean, even after the first shootings they didn't bother to lock down the campus? What kind of moronic idea is that.

[biggiy05]

The police were really stupid here. I mean, even after the first shootings they didn't bother to lock down the campus? What kind of moronic idea is that.

They didn't lock the campus down because it was an isolated incident. All in one place.

[MrCow]

I thought of Hokie too <3 hokie <3<3<3

[Lilith]

I find it strange that one guy with pistols was able to kill 32 people and injure countless others. It's pretty hard to get actually KILLED by those things from what I know, when threatened by one you're usually told to run even when injured etc. Although I guess there were a lot of people at close range, it seems hard to pull off without at least one other person/accomplice/massive strategy. Just a thought :(

[algam86]

This is terrible. I heard about this on the news. It's people like this that ruin it for everybody else. Especially for those 32 and their families/friends. Geez.

Still...maybe after this, they'll think about investing in some better security. Unfortunately, since it seems to have a pretty big campus...I doubt they'll be 100% secure. At least stop something like this from happening anytime soon.

P.S. Don't know you, but glad you're safe, hokie.

[MottZilla]

I find it strange that one guy with pistols was able to kill 32 people and injure countless others. It's pretty hard to get actually KILLED by those things from what I know, when threatened by one you're usually told to run even when injured etc. Although I guess there were a lot of people at close range, it seems hard to pull off without at least one other person/accomplice/massive strategy. Just a thought :(

The .22 pistol isn't as likely to cause instant/quick death unless to the head, however the 9mm pistol he had, esspecially with hollow points (not sure if he used those), is very deadly. Ofcourse it all depends precisely where the bullets hit. Many people might underestimate handguns compare to rifles and automatic weapons, but a pistol is plenty deadly. They say the main reason he did so much damage was because he had many extra clips for the 9mm pistol, though they didn't really say what kind of .22 calibre pistol he had though it too could have been semi-automatic.

[The_Amaster]

They didn't lock the campus down because it was an isolated incident. All in one place.
It started out in a dormitory, which they locked down, and then they didn't give an official announcement. It spread by word of mouth, but the police assumed that the guy left, and then , well....

[Aegix Drakan]

I'm glad Hokie and Plissken are ok. :)


...what sickens me most about this kind of thing is that the people injured are KIDS (well...relatively speaking. They're really young adults, but whatever). The people hurt by this are all innocent, and don't deserve this.
They always pick on the helpless. Students, the Amish, the disabled, and those who aren't strong enough to stand up for themselves. It just shows everone just how retarded the human race as a whole is (with some minor exceptions).

[Glenn the Great]

I'm glad Hokie and Plissken are ok. :)

Yeah, that was a really close call for Plissken, living only an hour away. I'd be scared shitless in his situation.

[Plissken]

Yeah good thing I'm only in high school. Although the only colleges I'm even interested in are out of state it still is pretty freaky.

[Beldaran]

Yeah good thing I'm only in high school.

Yeah good thing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre)

[Prrkitty]

Count is up to 33... http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[Darth Marsden]

The primary reason firearms came about was because they are so horribly easy to use. It takes a lot of skill and strength, not to mention time to train something like an archer. But you can just give anyone a gun and tell them point this end at what you want to die and squeeze your finger.
Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make. It seems anyone can buy a gun in the US these days. I'm suddenly reminded of a section from Fahrenheit 9/11, that Michael Moore film, with the gun you can get when opening a bank account... Yikes.

33 people. I just wish these people would tell us WHY. If we knew that, maybe we could work to stop things like this from happening.

[DarkDragoonX]

33 people. I just wish these people would tell us WHY. If we knew that, maybe we could work to stop things like this from happening.

Because they're a cocktail mix of evil, crazy, and bastard. Anybody who could even CONSIDER performing such an act is one sick fucker.

Good to know you're okay, though, DBH.

[Darth Marsden]

What amuses me is how the newspapers over here report it. The Daily Telegraph (which my parents get) has 'Lone gunman kills 32 in rampage at US university', while the Sun (which we don't get because it's rubbish) has '32 Killed By Love Row Student', despite it not being confirmed that the killer had gone for his ex-girlfriend. Oh yes, we love the Sun.

[Rainman]

Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make. It seems anyone can buy a gun in the US these days. I'm suddenly reminded of a section from Fahrenheit 9/11, that Michael Moore film, with the gun you can get when opening a bank account... Yikes.


You shouldn't believe anything in Fahrenheit 9/11 was unbiased reporting. I wish I got a gun when I opened a bank account.

The only way this could have been stopped is if someone in the area had a gun and defended themselves.

[Beldaran]

I agree with Rainman.

It is illegal to shoot people in the United States. People who shoot people are law breakers. If you make guns illegal, only people who obey laws will give up their guns. That disarms law obiding citizens, and does nothing to lawbreakers.

Even if guns didn't exist, a person who is determined to kill innocent people will find a way to do so.

[AtmaWeapon]

I recall an article I read a couple of years ago that seemed to indicate that in many countries where guns are outlawed, the knife becomes the preferred weapon of the murderer. Granted, knives don't allow for such an easy killing spree, but there's always the old standby argument "would a criminal who is willing to kill over two dozen people instead decide to stay at home when faced with the moral dilemma of acquiring a weapon that is illegal?"

[Beldaran]

Or they could just make a bomb with chemicals you can get at Ace Hardware.

Europeans love to point out how many gun crimes there are in the united states, but they never mention that their murder rate does not differe appreciable from ours, and they also fail to mention that according to an article on the BBC website in 2003, violent crime is rising in the UK and falling in the US. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm)

[Glenn the Great]

The shooter was a 4channer!

http://www.thestar.com/StarPM/article/204030

[MottZilla]

Who's 4channer?

[Beldaran]

Who's 4channer?

4chan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan)

The article quote:



Students at the university's online newspaper, planetblacksburg.com, today discovered a message on a website that seemed to announce the massacre.

Posted early yesterday morning on 4chan, a website that allows anonymous postings, the message warned: "hey /b/ I'm going to kill people at vtech today in the name of anonymous."

[AtmaWeapon]

Oh god it was in /b/ it has to be true, that is the absolute pinnacle of serious business on the internet!

Guys I think he played video games too! Link for big image (http://imagesocket.com/view/20062vtecf42.jpg)

[The_Amaster]

See, guys like that give gamers a bad name. Hopefully the mainstream media doesn't get ahold of that image and use it for some more "Video games are Satan spawn" propoganda.

[Plissken]

News around the net is that is was a random guy who posted that and edited his time stamp to a different time. In either way it just shows us more and more that 4Chan is a twisted place.

[Aegix Drakan]

Hopefully the mainstream media doesn't get ahold of that image and use it for some more "Video games are Satan spawn" propoganda.

Well...if the gamefaqs social boards are to be believed (unlikely), then JT is blaming this whole thing on WoW. >_> Even though the source is not very reputable, I can't help but think that it's got a grain of truth...

And for the record, the games aren't the problem. If there were no video games, he'd have just imitated rambo or the texas chainsaw massacre. If peole would take the time to raise their kids PROPERLY, then we would fix 90% of these problems BEFORE THEY HAPPEN.

[Glenn the Great]

Right. No sense blaming video games. The real culprit is the girl who rejected his advances, as investigators believe may be a prime motive for his actions. When are girls going to learn to stop saying "No" all the time?

[me2]

Oh.

I haven't been here since apparently November 13th and the first thing I thought when I heard Virginia Tech was "hey wasn't there a guy from AGN that goes/went there?". I swear, no matter how hard I try to leave, something keeps pulling me back D:

Also, might 4chan have as many screw-ups as 2ch? I hope not, although you have to have a deteriorated mind to be able to regular that place.

[mrz84]

I heard about this on the news this morning. Horrible really. :shakeno:

Glad all AGNers in the area are accounted for. :kitty:

[deathbyhokie]

I swear, no matter how hard I try to leave, something keeps pulling me back D:

That would be your soul that you put into SB's jar when you joined.

[Aegix Drakan]

That would be your soul that you put into SB's jar when you joined.

>_> I don't belive my soul is in the jar. I always look carefully in any agreements I see on the net, and soul stealing was not in the terms of agreement as far as I could see...So...I doubt my soul is in the jar.

My life, and my mind though... :P That's another story.

[Skulkraken]

The shooting made the news even way out here in the Pacific. Apparently, the guy was a South Korean whose family had gone to the US in order to make more money. He also made a videotape.

...Wait, the guy used a pistol? The stuff I'd heard made it sound like he'd used a submachinegun or something like that.

Sorry, DBH, but your name didn't appear anywhere in my mind when I first heard of the incident. I guess I'm just not as deeply attached to this forum as the other members here...

[Nicholas Steel]

...

Another one? Why the fuck do these idiots go around shooting up schools? It's just sickening....

My heart goes out to anyone injured (or who knows someone injured) in the attack.
1) he was a quiet kid
2) bullies generally pick on quiet and/or weird people
3) person gets pushed over the edge gets gun kills all in sight :) simple really.

[Daarkseid]

1) he was a quiet kid
2) bullies generally pick on quiet and/or weird people
3) person gets pushed over the edge gets gun kills all in sight :) simple really.

No, there is always a mental illness component involved, which the killer in this case obviously had. Whats so messed up is that all the warning signs were there and people even complained to authorities and police about him, and he'd even been institutionalized for a brief period.

In the end, he was just sane enough to be pushed back into society. Problem with our mental healthcare system right now from what I understand is that its an area that is more and more becoming overwhelmed and I imagine this makes it attractive to release those people who seem to be coming down off of their episodes and calming down, so that the system can focus on the individuals who can't without close supervision be made safe to themselves and other people.

He was sick and probably needed long term therapy, but without somebody actively seeing that he got help, there wasn't anything that could be done until he commited a crime. Unfortunately, that crime had to involve the deaths of 32 people and more wounded.

Its all just fucked up. Nothing could've prevented it short of the conditions around the situation being more ideal.

[Lilith]

Too true, Ted. In the past it wasn't unheard of to spend long periods of time in loony bins, just chillin', but now the system is too overworked to hold that many people and also DIY medication culture is where it's at. The problem is trusting seriously insane people to take their medication, monitor their own behavior, etc. However, even with all this evidence I don't think anyone had enough information to detain him. I know plenty of people who have done similar "weird" things or had a history of crazy and never would come close to something like this. 99% of "disturbed" people are harmless, and it would be wrong to detain them. Also, if he was seriously planning it and this crazy, even if they had delayed classes or detained him, he would have done it as soon as possible anyway :(

Although on that note, one thing that really grinds my gears is repeat offenders, especially the sex kind. Nearly everytime I've read a story about rape/killing, they'll mention the guy had a previous history of sex abuse but was released. Wtf? This happens so often, I have no idea why they let these people out. If it's too much money to keep them, just kill them off imo. From the way the Vtech guy's roommates/teachers were talking, it looks like they were all looking for an excuse to point out he was really crazy, some small incident, but he went from 0 to killing spree in 5 seconds. So you can't even call repeat offender on this. Sad.

[Aegix Drakan]

Agreed with lilith. It makes no sense for them to release sex offenders, especially repeat offenders.

It's just plain stupid. I mean, if the guy is a sex predator, you DO NOT let them go back out. Seriously.

First offence should get 30 years hardcore jail at least, and second offence should get you another 30 years, plus you get neutered. With no anesthetic.

Maybe that would make them think twice.



You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?

From what I can see, not much.

[moocow]

You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?

From what I can see, not much.

Just curious, what do you WANT them to do about it? The schools can't even do anything about it, since no one knows when it's going to happen, or who's going to do it...

[deathbyhokie]

You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?

From what I can see, not much.

This is an excellent point. We should all write to our congresspeople and suggest solutions to preventing this. Maybe we can suggest to the police that someone may possibly be a school shooter, so the police can detain them and question them. And if they show any signs of aggression, including being indignant at the idea of being arrested when no crime has been committed, it'll be obvious proof that they have issues, and should be locked away for their own good.

Maybe we should also make every high school kid write an essay, and anyone whose essay shows anger, violence, use of a gun, or any other potential red flags we'll lock away forever. Sure, it's a bit of a loss of freedom, but it's for the good of everyone, right?

We should also finally do something about those damn witches up in Salem too.

[Lilith]

The kid's writings did suggest something particularly anti-social which is why I think it was red-flagged by teachers (as supposed to noir-violence or something). People did pick up on it, remarking that the only emotion he ever expressed was anger towards, which is a trait of anti-social disorder. A lot of the kid's fellow students and teachers were watching him closely to see if he would act out, but he didn't until this. If he was kicked out of school, he would have come back and done it or been able to complain/sue that he was kicked out for no real reason. There was nothing anyone could have done about this. That's why it's a tragedy. The only thing that could have really been done would be to impose more restrictions on who can buy guns, like psychological ones. However if you've had depression and wanted to buy a gun for protection and weren't allowed to, that would still be unfair. So idk.

[Beldaran]

Yeah I'm concerned that anyone that the popular kids think is "weird" or "anti-social" will get put on mood altering drugs and sent to counceling.

By most definitions, I am the type of person people might think would go crazy and kill everyone. I stay home all day working at my desk, I don't hang out with people, I don't go places, and I don't participate in anything except my own projects. I also have a dark sense of humor and basically think everyone is stupid and annoying. I don't want to be institutionalized for not being a brainless idiot with a shit eating grin who goes to frat parties, sports events, etc.

[Darth Marsden]

It's just plain stupid. I mean, if the guy is a sex predator, you DO NOT let them go back out. Seriously.

First offence should get 30 years hardcore jail at least, and second offence should get you another 30 years, plus you get neutered. With no anesthetic.

Maybe that would make them think twice.
Good, but too lenient. I say if you sexually assault someone even once, you get your 'distinguishing feature(s)' blown off with a shotgun.

If I ever get to found a country, illegal immigrants will have both knees shot out being thrown back where they came from, graffiti gets you locked up for a year after you've cleaned it up, and murderers get their entire families thrown out of the country while they get a bullet to the brain. Harsh, but you watch the crime figures stay in single digits. Well, until the people throw me out of office, anyway.

And for the record, it's 'offense'. Easy to get wrong.

Beldaran: I think you've described a fair number of people who post here. I'm also fairly certain we outnumber the 'popular' kids... Viva la revolution! ;)

Seriously... A lot of the time it's difficult to spot who is going to do something like this. As mentioned, you can watch for violent outbursts or tell-tale actions, but it's nigh-on impossible to know if someone's gonna go on a killing spree until they do it. Whatever you do, things are difficult to change without upsetting one group of people or another. In the end, sad as it may seem, the world will forget this soon enough and nothing will change.

[Majora]

Has anyone read the book "Brave New World"? That's pretty much the ONLY way society can be safe. It's impossible to have both Safety AND Freedom to the point where everyone is happy. If there is freedom, there will always be crime/murders etc. If there is safety then it comes at the price of freedom.

[Glenn the Great]

I want to say something about the suggestions and comments made in this topic concerning jail time and institutionalization.

First of all, it grieves me when a person with no significant history with the law can easily and casually say that people should go to jail for 30 years or some such, and then how others can call it lenient. The reason for this is that these people have likely never been to jail, and have no idea what it is like.

I have had personal experience with being locked up in a mental health institute. I was held for about 2 months several years ago, and those were the worst 2 months of my life. I spent much of my time at a State Mental Health facility. This is exactly the kind of place you would expect to go to, and I was amongst other people who it was very unlikely they'd ever live outside the facility.

For two months, I stepped into a pocket of hell on Earth. I've read that this place is in many ways comparable to a prison. It terrifies me to think of spending any more time there.

People are suggesting throwing people into jail for upwards of 30 years for an offence, and I know they wouldn't be saying that if they'd experienced what I have.

The thing that is truly grieving to me, is that it is these everyday law-abiding citizens who never have to experience such, which go on to become our lawmakers and judges, perpetuating such sentences not just as casual forum chatter, but as actual real life punishments. They'll go to work as a judge, sentence someone to 50 years "hardcore prison", then as that person is being forced off to hell, they go home and make love to their wife and later grumble about getting up for work the next morning to sentence someone else.

Things like this make me shudder and detest sharing the planet with other humans.

[Beldaran]

It's even more terrifying when you think about the recent projects to show how many innocent people are in prison. They've cleared like over a hundred people off of death row because of DNA evidence. Or how about the Duke LaCrosse scandal? One black girl makes an outrageous claim and for a year a group of white defendants are presumed guilty and have to fight for their lives constantly.

It's extremely difficult to prove your innocence in this country, and that's terrifying because you're not supposed to have to prove you're innocent. You're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

[Aegix Drakan]

...wow...

I wish to retract my previous statement.


You are right, I have no experience with this kind of thing, and thus my opinon is faulty from the start. So, yeah, never mind my previous statement.

It IS true that the western way of applying justice is screwed up. Most of the time, it is the innocent/good person that gets screwed. Which is why I am vehemently opposed to the death sentence. In the end, it's not about whether or not you are guilty, it's about how much you can afford to pay a lawyer.

And while I don't detest sharing the planet with other humans, but I DO detest sharing it with idiots and the corrupt. With accounts for about 95% of the earth's population.

[The_Amaster]

Ya know, between all the aisians, hispanics, blacks, homosexuals, women and other groups, the white male is now almost a minority. Not saying that's a bad thing, just an interesting thought, when you consider all the special treatment we give other minorities.


As for the VTech thing, well, the guy didn't just write some violent stuff, I mean from the excerpts, they were twisted. I know if I read them, I wouldn't just assume he had some problems, no I'd tell someone in authority and bug them until they did somthing about it

[Plissken]

Wow I just heard tommorow all over the nation people are going to wearing the colors of VA Tech or somehow supporting it. Anybody here got anything to wear? I'd happily do it but I don't have there colors.

[EatinCake]

Ya know, between all the aisians, hispanics, blacks, homosexuals, women and other groups, the white male is now almost a minority. Not saying that's a bad thing, just an interesting thought, when you consider all the special treatment we give other minorities.
I can't remeber the source, but I recall reading a intersting news article about this not to long ago. For a species to successfully keep their population up they have to reproduce at something ilke 1.7 average rate. The "white" population has never really been the majority species on earth, but thanks to the age of exploration, we succesfully planted our seeds all over, and we encouraged to reproduce in order to keep colonies up. Now in this study they did, they discovered that the "whites" are reproducing at a rate of 1.3, while mexicians are something near 2.5 and asian at 3.7. In short, white people are gonna go extinct.

As for VT... theres nothing really to say other than its just sad being reminded how easily life is taken and how pointlessly.

[Daarkseid]

(stupid off topic shit about race)


Yeah, how about we keep the discussion centered around subjects that are immediately important to the VT shootings.

[moocow]

Wow I just heard tommorow all over the nation people are going to wearing the colors of VA Tech or somehow supporting it. Anybody here got anything to wear? I'd happily do it but I don't have there colors.

I don't have their colors either... nor do I have the money to buy clothes that is their colors. So I bought some ribbon (black and maroon), safety pins and orange puffy paints... and made a ribbon to wear. Then I had to make one for mom, dad, my sister and one of my friends... lol.

[Glenn the Great]

Has anyone else considered the irony of deathbyhokie's name?

Anyway, I think that the way to try to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future is to be sure not to bully others. If you are out of school, don't have kids; if you do have them anyway, teach them not to bully others. Also, you should take the time to sit down and realize that your "debaucheries" really are enough, if not too much. Also, if you become very rich, start giving money to the poor. Girls, never say no to a nerd who asks you out. Don't do too much to flaunt your membership in religious clubs either.

These are a lot of smart precautiouns that likely would have stopped this incident, the Columbine shootings, and many other lesser-publicized but just as devastating school-related acts of violence.

Just doing these things here, will do a whole lot more than the government ever could. You don't need to look to the government for help here... you need only look to yourselves.

[AtmaWeapon]

Glenn I really can't tell when you are fakeposting or not you need to implement some kind of a signal

[Beldaran]

I disagree. This guy was crazy and you can't placate crazy people by changing your behavior.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be nice to people (obviously you should), but girls should turn down whoever they want without worrying about them flipping out and killing people in psychotic retribution. You don't have to donate money to the poor and enjoying your life is not a debauchery.

The only way to stop people like this is by making sure administrators are more attuned to the mental health of their students. From what I've read, this guy had been red lighted as a potential problem, but was shuffled from person to person and no one ever really did anything.

[Glenn the Great]

Glenn I really can't tell when you are fakeposting or not you need to implement some kind of a signal

Success! I've been fine-tuning my posts very carefully to try to get this response. The best post is one where the authenticity isn't outright obvious, and you have to stop and think about it, which gives my message time to sink in and perhaps take hold.

[Lilith]

It's even more terrifying when you think about the recent projects to show how many innocent people are in prison. They've cleared like over a hundred people off of death row because of DNA evidence. Or how about the Duke LaCrosse scandal? One black girl makes an outrageous claim and for a year a group of white defendants are presumed guilty and have to fight for their lives constantly.

Actually it wasn't that outrageous, there was just no physical proof and you can't prove "rape" in NC without there being a PENIS PRESENT OH NO. If someone were to use a condom/their hand/not be male during a sexual assualt there's no way to prove rape so you'd have to dismiss it. So who knows. I've heard people in NC complain about this :(

[Beldaran]

Yes, but in this particular case, the case fell apart because the accuser told 3 or 4 different versions to police and no one could back up her recollection of events because they didn't make sense. At least that's what I heard from america's finest news source, ESPN News. :p

Dennis Nifong is in serious trouble because the only reason he took the case was to try and get black votes in his next election.

[AtmaWeapon]

Well I was talking about something last night and I realized one of the biggest problems that presents itself when dealing with a guy like this. I hate to sound misogynist but it seems to me a lot of women would rather be victims than fight. From what I understand, Mr. Dude in the shooting had been in trouble for stalker-type behavior in the past but no one ever pressed charges because apparently going through the process of pressing charges on an individual for making you live in fear is embarrassing.

The general opinion I see people forming is that the general student body noticed signs of problems with the guy but nothing worth forcing some form of monitoring upon him. The authorities had several complaints against him that indicated there was trouble on the horizon, but charges were always dropped so their hands were tied by the system.

Many brutal murders I've read about involve an individual who had harassed the victim for quite some time beforehand, but for some reason the victims tend to keep quiet and the first time anyone goes "Hey wait he was that guy she told me was always standing outside her bathroom window with a knife in his hand for 3 weeks" is after the murder, then they go "I wanted to call the police but she told me she was embarrassed and if she ignored him for long enough he'd probably go away".

You can't arrest a person or force them into counseling for being a loner, antisocial, or displaying other characteristics of an unstable individual. Their right to freedom is protected up to the point where their behavior violates another's rights and that individual presses charges for the offense. I'm not saying this event would have been stopped had anyone pressed charges against him earlier, but I do believe there is a possibility something could have been done.

[Lilith]

Entire thread says: you can't press charges on people who don't do anything

even if you have a vagina

bye

[bigjoe]

I just read that it's unclear whether the gunman shot himself or if the police shot him...

I have nothing against a policeman shooting someone if it means keeping order. I just wish they'd own up to it.

[Glenn the Great]

Whether or not they own up to it, they will be treated with scorn for their actions. And that is as it should be, because a society which scorns it's police officers is a healthy society. However, they need to realize it is better to be scorned+honest rather than scorned+dishonest.

[Beldaran]

a society which scorns it's police officers is a healthy society.

I disagree. Police Officers rather heroically go out and risk their lives to keep society as orderly and safe as possible. They are rather heroic in my opinion. They ought to be respected and admired, but only when their actions deserve it of course.

I do agree that their behavior should be highly transparent and subject to criticism, but to scorn them for the good and necessary work they do is wrong.

[Glenn the Great]

Well you see Beldaran, it is very important that there is always a strong opposing force to the police. If there isn't, then the police will gradually become more and more corrupt, as they become placid in their image as heroes.

Everyone loved Hitler. They loved him too much. By the time things went to Hell, the German citizens didn't really even know what hit them.

Checks and balances, man.

[Beldaran]

it is very important that there is always a strong opposing force to the police.

There is one. The constitution.


Checks and balances, man.

The constitution.

Now if only we could ensure that the government respected the constitution. *cough* patriot act *cough

[Lilith]

I'm from chicago and everyone is like "fuck the police", there was a video of a big fat one beating the shit out of a 5'0" woman or something awhile ago. apparently this isn't that crazy :(

[Fabiano the Spy]

Whether or not they own up to it, they will be treated with scorn for their actions. And that is as it should be, because a society which scorns it's police officers is a healthy society. However, they need to realize it is better to be scorned+honest rather than scorned+dishonest.
I can't really say I quite agree with you.
I mean sure, there is police officers who don't own up to their job, but what about the people that do? What about the police officers that died during 911?

I believe there is certain officers who are heros, and then there is the officers who are the dirty wothless piece's of shit that do nothing. But then again, you'll find that everywhere you go correct? Please, don't take offense Glenn, I'm not shooting your view point down. But your statement seemed to be sort of 1-sided. Maybe I just misinterpreted it?

[Glenn the Great]

There is one. The constitution.



The constitution.



What are the first 3 words of the Constitution?

We The People.

We make it happen. The paper doesn't do it by itself.

[Prrkitty]

I feel sorry for those that lost their lives (and the families/friends involved)... but I also feel sorry for the family of Chou.

Hopefully like the Amish people that helped the family of the guy that shot their children... I hope the families of those that lost their lives can also - in one way or another - embrace the family of Chou and help them thru this as well.