Ah, three new equipment items!

[ShadowTiger]

New equipment: Heart Rings (regenerate hearts), Magic Rings (regenerate magic), and the Light Force (infinite magic).Ah, most intriguing. Thank you good sir L. A few questions to tickle your well rewarded fancy, if I may?

1) With each of these regenerative rings: Are these based on a "Per Second" or "Per Minute" basis? What is the <REGENERATION PER><???> rate anyway? (I.e. #% of # heart(s) per <MINUTE/SECOND> etc.) This is for the default value.

2) How may we adjust such a rare and quantity? What if the player has two different rings they wish to turn on or off? What if you can only have one active at any given time?! (Something to give some thought to, I'd wager.) Perhaps toggle their ability to be either equipment or B Items? I.e. if it's a B item, then, naturally, only one can be active. If it's equipment, it'll be active all the time. Now what if you had BOTH a ring for your equipment and a ring for your finger? Would they overlap and be additive? What about a ring that does both?

3) Concerning the "Light Force:" What is the default item image that you had initially pictured? I'd imagine some sort of wispy cloud, but that's probably not even close. Now, this gives us infinite magic. Does this mean, say, a permanent 4/4, or 6/6, or 8/8 magic? Or does this imply an automatic 9999/9999 magic? For example, suppose you have a spell which actually does in fact require 9999 magic to cast, which is obviously well beyond your measly maximum of 8 magic containers. (Oh holy cow, "Magic Container Pieces. We don't have those yet. O_O ... Though I'll bet we could make them in the item editor.)



...

And what the hell. While we're here:

4) Will it eventually be possible for a sword (Or any weapon, custom or otherwise, (Though they're technically probably ALL "custom" at this point what with the remarkable changes you guys have made.) ) to inflict decimal or fractional damage? For example, a wooden sword will do 2 damage, where a minor upgrade to the wooden sword will do 2.5 damage, where the white sword still does 4 damage. Thoughts? This'd make weapon diversity far more entertaining, as no longer would we be stuck with EXACTLY FOUR (Or five.) A weapons, regardless of how we draw them to appear as. To be able to select a full weapons rack of weaponry would be a veritable dream come true. Hell, to SHOP for them would be even more fun! :p So it wouldn't just be art that would set them apart, but actual damage statistics. Eventually, even range and behavior.

Surely you can say that since the Biggoron's sword was indeed in OoA/OoS and OoT, it would eventually come to be into ZC as well. The damage can be modified. It's the range which as of yet cannot.

[AmazingAmpharos]

For fractional damage, couldn't you just use the enemy and item editors to increase all numbers? For instance, set the Wooden Sword to do 50 damage, the small upgrade to do 75, and Blue Octoroks to have 100 HP. There is the question of what the maxes are for stats like HP and attack power in such a case, but that seems like a generally workable solution for fractional damage, especially if you just wanted halves as that would just force you to double every number.

[splattergnome]

Looking the current lists of changes, I see that Dark Nation made a lot of changes towards the enemies (bugfixes and the like) - which will probably cause a lot of conflict with -L- redefined enemy editor. Hopefully -L- is making sure that his code is taking in account of these changes. :(

[The_Amaster]

Wow...jeez, there has been an explosion in the development of non vital but cool items(Peril Beam, Whisp Rings, Wealth Medals, and now thsi stuff.)

Cool!

[_L_]

1) With each of these regenerative rings: Are these based on a "Per Second" or "Per Minute" basis? What is the <REGENERATION PER><???> rate anyway? (I.e. #% of # heart(s) per <MINUTE/SECOND> etc.) This is for the default value.Well, Heart/Magic Ring 1 restores a quarter of a container every 1024 (hexadecimal:400) frames. That's about 17 seconds. Sure, it may seem small, but when you're doing a lot of overworld traipsing, it adds up! I recommend Heart Ring 1 as a supplement to the typical tall-grass-covered, recovery-heart-laden quest.

Levels 2 and 3 lower that time to 512 (hex: 200) and 256 (hex: 100) respectively. Level 3 could be used well in a quest where the Item Drop Editor has removed all of the recovery hearts from the game.


2) How may we adjust such a rare and quantity? What if the player has two different rings they wish to turn on or off?Why would they want to turn them off?


3) Concerning the "Light Force:" What is the default item image that you had initially pictured? I'd imagine some sort of wispy cloud, but that's probably not even close.Maybe a bottle of Chateau Romani?

Now, this gives us infinite magic. Does this mean, say, a permanent 4/4, or 6/6, or 8/8 magic? Or does this imply an automatic 9999/9999 magic? For example, suppose you have a spell which actually does in fact require 9999 magic to cast, which is obviously well beyond your measly maximum of 8 magic containers. (Oh holy cow, "Magic Container Pieces. We don't have those yet. O_O ... Though I'll bet we could make them in the item editor.)I went the easy route. Your "spell cost multiplier" starts at 2 and is reduced to 1 when you get half magic. When you get the Light Force, it becomes 0. Though, I must say that I prefer your approach, and might change it.

4) Will it eventually be possible for a sword (Or any weapon, custom or otherwise, (Though they're technically probably ALL "custom" at this point what with the remarkable changes you guys have made.) ) to inflict decimal or fractional damage? For example, a wooden sword will do 2 damage, where a minor upgrade to the wooden sword will do 2.5 damage, where the white sword still does 4 damage. Thoughts? This'd make weapon diversity far more entertaining, as no longer would we be stuck with EXACTLY FOUR (Or five.) A weapons, regardless of how we draw them to appear as. To be able to select a full weapons rack of weaponry would be a veritable dream come true. Hell, to SHOP for them would be even more fun! :p So it wouldn't just be art that would set them apart, but actual damage statistics. Eventually, even range and behavior.You will be able to customise the swords' (and also the hammer's, arrows', wand's, candles', bombs' and boomerang's) damage by changing their family level. The default swords now have levels of 1, 2, 4 and 8. (If you want more divisions between levels 1 and 2, increase the HP of various enemies!)
Also, you can give each sword its own sprites, beam hearts and beam power values. Other behavioural tweaks will be possible for other equipment items (altering the fuse length of bombs, or the flight distance of boomerangs, for example).

[Nimono]

Well, Heart/Magic Ring 1 restores a quarter of a container every 1024 (hexadecimal:400) frames. That's about 17 seconds. Sure, it may seem small, but when you're doing a lot of overworld traipsing, it adds up! I recommend Heart Ring 1 as a supplement to the typical tall-grass-covered, recovery-heart-laden quest.

Levels 2 and 3 lower that time to 512 (hex: 200) and 256 (hex: 100) respectively. Level 3 could be used well in a quest where the Item Drop Editor has removed all of the recovery hearts from the game.

Why would they want to turn them off?

Maybe a bottle of Chateau Romani?
I went the easy route. Your "spell cost multiplier" starts at 2 and is reduced to 1 when you get half magic. When you get the Light Force, it becomes 0. Though, I must say that I prefer your approach, and might change it.
You will be able to customise the swords' (and also the hammer's, arrows', wand's, candles', bombs' and boomerang's) damage by changing their family level. The default swords now have levels of 1, 2, 4 and 8. (If you want more divisions between levels 1 and 2, increase the HP of various enemies!)
Also, you can give each sword its own sprites, beam hearts and beam power values. Other behavioural tweaks will be possible for other equipment items (altering the fuse length of bombs, or the flight distance of boomerangs, for example).

I dislike your last idea. Why not add in a checkbox that, when ticked, makes the damage power be whatever you put in its little type-in box? I mean... What if we wanted to make a LESS-powerful Hammer instead of a MORE-powerful one? Decreasing its family level wouldn't do any good, now would it? :p

[ShadowTiger]

Why would they want to turn them off?Well, as I theorized above, what if they were inventory items rather than backpack-laden equipment? I.e. you'd have to keep the particular ring in the B slot for it to actually have any effect. Thus, you wouldn't "Turn it off" much less just put it away. Same effect, but different motivations and logic behind it. So if you had two rings, you'd have only one active at a time, UNLESS the ring was designed to be equipment. So I guess it's the difference between being able to "use" the item or not. If it's capable of being placed in the unusable equipment area, it'd always be on. If it's capable of being placed in the usable inventory area, you'd have to use it for it to have any effect.


Maybe a bottle of Chateau Romani?Well remembered. o.o This works wonderfully. Too bad it's only in one Zelda game. =/ It was quality stuff. (I haven't played Twilight Princess yet, so I wouldn't know if anything of the sort was in there.) Otherwise I just don't recall. ... But whatever. This works just fine.

[Nicholas Steel]

if you have a negative ring (eg: cursed) and you get the curse lifted, it will still have a negative effect but now you can remove/turn off the ring.

edit: im thinking of cursed stuff like in 'Castle of the Winds'

[_L_]

What if we wanted to make a LESS-powerful Hammer instead of a MORE-powerful one? Decreasing its family level wouldn't do any good, now would it? :p

I forgot to mention that the default hammer's level is now 4. And that the wand's default level is now 2.

[ShadowTiger]

*GASP* .. I just realized something. I hope it's of no tremendous importance. We have four sword flags (And beam flags) right? What if we suddenly have like, eleven Melee Weapons? (With all four of those default swords in the mix somewhere.) What happens to the flags? Will we still only be able to trigger L4 flags with our Master Sword, despite the possibility of a GRANDMaster Sword or something, which does even more damage? Or will it just be a lesser / greater thing? Suppose We have a very specific weapon, a sword which deals basically no damage, (A "1" damage on a scale where red octoroks have 100 HP.) which is meant to slash open locks and such, say, as a lockpick.

What would happen then?

[redmage777]

So if you had two rings, you'd have only one active at a time, UNLESS the ring was designed to be equipment. So I guess it's the difference between being able to "use" the item or not. If it's capable of being placed in the unusable equipment area, it'd always be on. If it's capable of being placed in the usable inventory area, you'd have to use it for it to have any effect.


If I'm not mistaken, equiping items to A was added a month or two ago, if so you actually can have both rings out at one time.

I don't know if I so much want these as official items, particularly L2 and L3 versions, so much as the frame work to create them myself. Then again I could always copy over the ones I don't need...

[ShadowTiger]

If I'm not mistaken, equipping items to A was added a month or two ago, if so you actually can have both rings out at one time.Hence why you could, then, in theory, equip them both as A AND B items to get both effects at the same time. No Biggie.


I don't know if I so much want these as official items, particularly L2 and L3 versions, so much as the frame work to create them myself. Then again I could always copy over the ones I don't need...Well, the framework is there. Either you can script an item, (Though it appears to still be an "On Activation" thing rather than an "If Equipped" issue.) or you can draw or rename the item however you'd like to make its effect suit an item that's more your liking. I.e. changing the "Light Force" into Romani Milk.

[_L_]

*GASP* .. I just realized something. I hope it's of no tremendous importance. We have four sword flags (And beam flags) right? What if we suddenly have like, eleven Melee Weapons? (With all four of those default swords in the mix somewhere.) What happens to the flags? Will we still only be able to trigger L4 flags with our Master Sword, despite the possibility of a GRANDMaster Sword or something, which does even more damage? Or will it just be a lesser / greater thing? Suppose We have a very specific weapon, a sword which deals basically no damage, (A "1" damage on a scale where red octoroks have 100 HP.) which is meant to slash open locks and such, say, as a lockpick.

What would happen then?
Currently, the L4 (now L8) sword triggers Wooden Sword flags as well as Master Sword flags. So, if a sword's level reaches or exceeds a sword flag's level, it will trigger it.

Also, some news:
* The Ring levels are now 2, 4 and 8. Feel free to use family level 1 for a default Green Tunic or something.
* You can now assign slash sprites to the Wand.

[redmage777]

So, does this mean that some of the Weapons/Misc Animations might find their way to the Item editor instead? It could make sence to eliminate the option all together and farm the animations out to the appropriate editors (Subscreen, Enemy or Item.) Then again this could confuse people and create problems.

To the point- Where in the interface will animations for new items be assigned?

[ShadowTiger]

Okay, so there are no ways to make an L1 flag which a L2 item (Or above) cannot trigger. That puts slashable lockpicks out of the picture. > <. Wasn't there going to be some sort of plan where you'd have unique sword flags, which only that level could trigger?

Maybe a screen flag menu prompt which sets the sword trigger flag values for those flags to something else. I.e. on that same page of the Screen Flags dialog where there's that Damage Combo sensitivity value, (Which is currently the only thing on it.) there could be four prompts: One for each Sword Flag. Each will set the Sword Family Value of its respective sword to a new number. So if your Wooden sword does 5 Damage, you could set it to 1, and now it'd trigger for that lockpick, where the lockpick wouldn't trigger any Wooden Sword flag on any other screen, as that value is 5, where its own family value is 1. But it WOULD be able to trigger it for that one screen, since it's been set to 1 rather than the semi-default 5.

I'm just sort of thinking in terms of quest possibilities here. I know coding this stuff isn't easy.

[The_Amaster]

Currently, the L4 (now L8) sword triggers Wooden Sword flags as well as Master Sword flags. So, if a sword's level reaches or exceeds a sword flag's level, it will trigger it.

So a swords level now equals the damage it deals. Ok. Does the same apply to other melee weapons? Based on
that the default hammer's level is now 4. And that the wand's default level is now 2. I'm assuming not, as I always thought the wand was proportionate to the lv 3 sword.

[erm2003]

The wand as far as I knew always had the same strength as the White Sword.

[beefster09]

Okay, L, this new system you decided on is definitely more versatile. But are the Level limits expanded too? (like to at least 16) They're only at 8 y'know. I would hope for 32 or 64 though... Like if you want like a spiked flaming mace or something. :rolleyes: :wink: :wink: :nudge: :nudge:

[Love For Fire]

So does this mean we can have an intermeditae value? To clarify, the Lv4 sword does 8 damage and it is now a Lv8 Sword correct? I want my Lv4 Sword to do 6 damage. Would I call it a Lv6 Sword? I would like the progression of swords 1->2->4->6

[_L_]

To the point- Where in the interface will animations for new items be assigned?

Well, you'll be able to assign to each item a corresponding "Weapon/Misc" sprite.* At first this'll be through an input box where you type the ID of a "Weapon/Misc" sprite, but hopefully a more UI-skilled developer will replace it with a dropdown menu of sorts.

And yes, setting a sword's level to 3 will make it deal 3 times the Wooden Sword's damage. Setting it to 64 will make it do 64 times the Wooden Sword's damage.

*Four of them, actually. (The hookshot requires a head sprite, a horizontal chain sprite, a vertical chain sprite and a handle sprite. And Nayru's Love actually requires 8 sprites, but I've decided that the right spell rocket will now be a mirrored version of the left.)

[Love For Fire]

Awesome... oh, is there/will there be a way to make a WEAKER arrow? Another idea I had was that the bow and arrow are used as another weapon, and not a special weapon. I'm pretty sure we can already do infinite arrows, but I'd like them to do low damage since you have a range advantage over other weapons.

[Master_of_Power]

And yes, setting a sword's level to 3 will make it deal 3 times the Wooden Sword's damage. Setting it to 64 will make it do 64 times the Wooden Sword's damage.


So you can set the level up beyond 8 now? :scared:

[_L_]

Another improvement: every weapon and item can now have a magic cost assigned to it. A checkbox can turn that into a rupee cost if the Magic rule is disabled.

P.S: Just for fun, I coded a new twilight-style Farore's Wind animation, available by setting misc1 to 1.

[Nicholas Steel]

Currently, the L4 (now L8) sword triggers Wooden Sword flags as well as Master Sword flags. So, if a sword's level reaches or exceeds a sword flag's level, it will trigger it.
but what if you want to have a quest where you start with max hearts and items, and as you progress through dungeons you lose items and heart containers, till your back to what you normally start with in LOZ?

i would like to block paths with level specific stuff like you need a weaker sword to activate stuff to allow passage... and items do decrease per dungeon you beat and the items you lose are dependent on the dungeon you beat but id have a script that makes it so you have to beat all the dungeons in a given area before you get the weaker sword.

dungeons will obviously be designed so that items you lose arnt needed in any future dungeons, else you'd be screwed.

[_L_]

That's a very good quest idea. And since a greater-than-one quantity of people have requested this feature in a single topic, I am now morally obligated to supply it.

[Nimono]

Another improvement: every weapon and item can now have a magic cost assigned to it. A checkbox can turn that into a rupee cost if the Magic rule is disabled.

P.S: Just for fun, I coded a new twilight-style Farore's Wind animation, available by setting misc1 to 1.

Twilight-style animation? Like in TP? Or are you talking something else?

Also, why not change Farore's Wind if you can? (Or at least modify it.) I'd actually like to see Farore's Wind work the same way it did in OoT, where when used, it'd set a little orb at the door you entered the current room from, and it stays there until you use it again. When you use it again, you're warped to it. It'd be great for when you have splitting paths and have to do a ton of backtracking. It could be a Level-2 Farore's Wind, or it could just take over the current one. I actually find the current Farore's Wind to be quite annoying. I, for one, don't really want to use it just to get back to the CONTINUE SCREEN. I'd rather use it like it worked in OoT....

So, we can finally tell the game what items use magic and stuff, eh? Great! Now all you need to do is make some checkboxes for things like "not a Melee weapon", and Link's usage animations, and I'd say it'd be perfect! ;)

[_L_]

* The Boots's level now indicates what kind of damage combos it can resist. Level 1 means that it only protects you from "Damage (1/2) combos". Default is 7.
* Also editable: Lens of Truth and Din's Fire radii.
* Furthermore: disposing of the "Long Bomb Fuses" rule, you can now set the number of frames before a bomb explodes. If this is 0, it becomes a Remote Bomb.

[Majora]

Holy crap, thats awesome! So, any predictions for when the next build is out?
Oh, and what became of the Idea I suggested for the whistle?: Everything is frozen for the duration of the sound. :poke:

And pikaguy:

Yes, he's referring to the TP-style warp where link breaks apart and goes up.

[The_Amaster]

Jeez, L, you're on a feature rampage. Keep it up
How about a dialouge option to give and take away items?


Yes, he's referring to the TP-style warp where link breaks apart and goes up.

Didn't it already do that?

[Nimono]

Didn't it already do that?

No, he just.... Broke up. :P

[Majora]

No, he just.... Broke up. :P

In TP, he actually broke apart in little black rectangles.

In ZC he dissolves

[Nimono]

In TP, he actually broke apart in little black rectangles.

In ZC he dissolves

I meant in ZC.In ZC, he breaks apart into little particles. In TP, he breaks up into little black squares of TWILIGHT. :o

[beefster09]

Will the item names be editable anytime soon?

[_L_]

Oh yeah, that's a good point.

Next to implement: item name, and subscreen name.

[Imprisoned]

4: Yes!

[Dark Nation]

You know, _L_, it's very cruel to announce all these nifty additions without committing them to the source repository so the other devs can look at them. :p

[Majora]

Well, in my opinion, new features such as these, well.... as long as there are no bugs it's OK if _L_ adds them without doing what you said. Little stuff like modifying existing stuff or adding the ability to edit certain little things should be OK. Big stuff like New Items and the like should be done with consent by other Devs.

[ShadowTiger]

Though to be fair, it IS something that's been on the Subscreen Editor for quite a while, in the "Soon To Be Completed" style as written on the actual subscreen entity type itself. There is a bunch of things that needs to be "finished" that's visibly unfinished before 2.5 can be released. (Floor / Ceilingmasters, Z3 Boulder and Z3 Moldorm, those subscreen elements, the bats, etc.)

[CastChaos]

Are there any major bugs left? Seriously, I can't recall now any unfixed major bugs like the "subscreen crash" were in the earlier betas or the "item disappears" in 2.11b14 or like the "arrows useless" in 2.11b12b.

However, if the Developers aren't already planning the stable 2.5, then probably there are some major bugs which I don't know of. Of course, there is a slight chance that 2.5 will be our Easter present... (in one of the upcoming years).

I like new features added though. It's like "make the pig really fat before you sell it". Just not to overfat that pig, so it dies before could be sold.

[Master_of_Power]

So... does a higher level Roc's Feather increase the height of your jump?

[Nimono]

So... does a higher level Roc's Feather increase the height of your jump?

I hope it increases the distance you jump! :D

[The_Amaster]

Yeah, a different distance bsed on level, and if you add in activated Link Tile Modifiers, you could merge the hover boots into the Roc's class, as well as fulfill my request for a shorter jump by making the current one level 3 or so.

[beefster09]

Yeah, a different distance bsed on level, and if you add in activated Link Tile Modifiers, you could merge the hover boots into the Roc's class, as well as fulfill my request for a shorter jump by making the current one level 3 or so.

Or you could have it be one of those misc properties that you referred to. Don't forget a way for it to be different in sideview!

[_L_]

You know, _L_, it's very cruel to announce all these nifty additions without committing them to the source repository so the other devs can look at them. :p

One of the implications of the current setup is that any time any other developer can release a public build of the current revision, and it'd be unnecessarily mean to release it without the appropriate ZQuest editing functions completed.

UIs are one of those things that take time for me!

[_L_]

You know what? I've just realised that you (that is, several people) are right - tying the item's Family Level to both item succession and weapon power is unnecessary overloading and constricting.

So, it is time for the following rewrite: the levels are now unchanged (swords are still 1,2,3,4, and still trigger appropriate combo flags), but a new variable, Power, is used for damage and jump height and such (for which the swords are 1,2,4,8).

[Petoe]

It's like "make the pig really fat before you sell it". Just not to overfat that pig, so it dies before could be sold.

Heh, well that's just what's happening to ZC. The pig is going to explode any minute now.
_L_ is on a crazy mode again...
There's tons of new stuff added and changes made to ZC since b254, it would be nice to get a new build ASAP to see how damn buggy the newest build is and is all compatibility ruined with b254... :(

[beefster09]

_L_:
Ok then, That will probably work better anyway since the item level is intended for the properties of the item, right? (eg. the white sword triggers white sword flags and wooden sword flags)

Petoe:
You're right. _L_ is getting carried away. Improving the item editor isn't on his to-do list... Unless another dev had L work on it for him or L considers it a bugfix.

[Luigi]

The only REAL danger with all these misc. attribute numbers is ZC/ZQuest crashing with someone using absurdly high numerical values.

In other words, a character limit will have to be set for ALL the text boxes these editable values will need - I take it _L_'s already considered/done this.

[The_Amaster]

Yeah, all these features seem to be a low bug risk. I mean, they basicly reorganize stuff that was already in the code, instead of new stuff that isn't understood and buggy.

[beefster09]

Good point.

[_L_]

All I'm really doing is rearranging the existing item code such that it's less dependant on item IDs and more dependant on family IDs and power levels. The extra stuff, like remote bombs and slashing wands, was either already partially implemented, or trivial to include.

[_L_]

Also! To make things easier for all of us, I'm giving the Hurricane Spin and Super Quake their own item families.

Doublealso: Among other things, you can now set magic costs for the Spin Attack, Quake Hammer, Cross Beams, and the Peril Beam. If both Cross Beams and Peril Beam have magic costs, and you can use both, then you'll be charged for both. For fun, set one of them to cost rupees and the other to cost magic! (For testing purposes only, of course...)

[_L_]

I have thought of a solution to the combo flag problem:

I'll add an extra variable and checkbox to the item editor. The variable will hold the number of the combo flag which is affected by this item, and the checkbox will mean that the item can also trigger combo flags for lower-level items of the same family.

EDIT: Wait. What about those Flag-related secret combos per screen?

[Stungun]

One efficiency problem - for your method, doesn't this mean ZC has to check all the weapons in that weapon family to see which flags they trigger, when checking to see if a flag gets triggered?

Say you have five items of each class and five flags of each class. (The first class is items 1-5)
Item 1 is set to flag 1. Item 2 is set to flag 2. Etc.

When you have item 5 hit flag 3, Item 5 needs to check to see if it can trigger flag 3. However, the quest doesn't know whether or not flag three is of that item's family; Therefore, it has to check to see if it can 'trigger weaker flags'; If so, it has to check the item list and find what items are of it's family, and analyze all of them (item one through item four) until it either finds one or does them all. So it has to go through the items until it comes across item 3, which it learns to trigger the flag.

Just a little thought, wouldn't that increase code complexity and increase the load? Surely there's got to be a sim
pler way. Maybe we'll need a 'flag editor'... so we can define what families/classes the flags respond to.

Your current idea would fail because of the fact that candle flags are also triggered by Din's Fire, which is an entirely different item family. Mine would work, however.

As for the secret combos screen, I guess it'd have to be completely reworked to make each page dynamic; Possibly with scrollbars in each tab.

Oh, you're also clearly going to have to deal with the unmovable 'item combos' situation. Perhaps you could re-code various combos such as 'Slash', 'Bush', 'Pound', 'Damage N' and such to where they would, if the appropriate flag was pasted over them, require that specific item to be able to be triggered. Say, you had a Bush combo with a Sword 3 flag over it; It wouldn't cut unless you used Sword 3. Damage combos with a 'Boots' flag would require a Boots of that level or higher to cross; Anything lower and you take the damge. The level of the flag would override default settings of the combo.

Perhaps this simply depends on the item in your inventory, not what you hit it with. So that way, a bush with the 'Wand' flag over it wouldn't cut until you had the wand in your inventory; But if you did, it'd cut with the sword, not the wand.

Of course, the simpler and wiser way to make it work would just be that the combo ignores the effects of any flags other than the ones that are synchronized with it.

Either way. We already have it so that slash combos will have their undercombos overridden by the 'Secret N' flags, in fact we've had it for a long time. So why couldn't you expand on that capability?

[The_Amaster]

L, any chance we could get some special "custom" secrets, so we don't eat up our generics. I doubt many people use all 16 but the use of them for custom items is a bit counterintuitive.

[_L_]

Something I'm not entirely satisfied with is the Shield family. It seems awfully constrained to just have Power (limited to the range of 1 = small, 2 = large, 3 = magic) be the only editable option. And yet I'm at a loss to think of what the other misc. values can represent.

[splattergnome]

Something I'm not entirely satisfied with is the Shield family. It seems awfully constrained to just have Power (limited to the range of 1 = small, 2 = large, 3 = magic) be the only editable option. And yet I'm at a loss to think of what the other misc. values can represent.

You can add options such as amount of damage stopped (or percentage), chance of breaking, whether it stops velocity of attacks, or still "kicks" Link back when hit, and ability to individually mark which type of attacks are absorbed and reflected, maybe ability to push enemies (like in Zelda IV). These type of abilities would allow a bit more flexibility, especially in non-standard quests.

[ShadowTiger]

Well this discussion has certainly been interesting. :) I checked Shardstorm, and found the following.


New equipment: Peril Rings (increase defense when HP is low), Whimsical Rings (to be completed with Enemy Editor changes), Stomp Boots (jump onto enemies to damage them - also to be completed with Enemy Editor changes) and the Stone of Agony (Link vibrates when standing on secret combo flags).
Furthermore, the Lens Hint symbols are now determined by searching through item data for the matching item.
Also, ring colour is now determined by a Ring's misc1.

Thus: Following the trend set forth by the first post in this thread:

1) So there are now two Peril Rings? If one re-enables sword beams, and the other increases (Doubles? Triples?) defense, ... ... actually, wait, what's the point of increasing your defense at all? If it makes you harder to kill, isn't that the same thing as giving you one or two hearts back to help you out of that sticky situation so you don't die? The only difference is that if you keep getting hearts, you're immortal. So this ring would act like a one-time (Per danger.) stimpack. Alright then. Why not combine both? I.e. setting the Peril Ring's Misc1 attribute to 0 lets you shoot sword beams at < 1 heart, while setting it to 1 doubles your defense, setting it to 2 triples your defense, and setting it to 3 doubles defense and lets you shoot sword beams, and setting it to 4 triples defense and lets you shoot beams. Eh?

2) So, if we have stomp boots, ... this makes things interesting. I'm going to write down a few thoughts; make what you want of them.
If you had the stomp boots equipped, (Would they be equipment or inventory? Able to be turned off or not? You'll see why in a moment.) we may need a trigger for this, in either Pound Combo form (If Walkable.) or in Stomp form. (Again, Walkable, since you couldn't pass over the unwalkable combo anyway.) .. Or perhaps a new combo (Stomp/Pound) featuring both, since it's a fairly similar action.
If we have a Roc's Cape, we'd be able to double jump, OR jump, then press it again to hover a bit like in OoS, assuming you had to press the button again at one point. I wonder if these boots would NOT act in conjunction with the Roc's Feather. I.e. when you "used" these boots, if they were an inventory item, if you would simply jump up, flip, and land very heavily on the ground. Otherwise, if they were used in conjunction with landing after using the Roc's Feather, it'd be an item similar to how the Magic Book is paired with the wand. Unless:
So, if every time that you jumped, you'd be stomping something when you landed, couldn't one, in theory, make a puzzle like this, that would force someone to try to not land on a cracked floor, otherwise it'd break? So if they could turn it on and off, this puzzle wouldn't be possible unless the quest designer could decide whether it should be toggleable or not.
So, if you landed on an enemy with these boots, (Whether toggleable or not.) it would be the equivalent of a normal point or two of damage against them, eh? Eventually, you'd have to wander away from that enemy, or when it stops flashing, it'll just hurt you, as you're in its hitbox range.

3) Concerning the Stone Of Agony, it probably needs both a combo type that'd trigger it and a flag that'd trigger it. I say this to almost provoke the removal of its use with normal secret flags, as secret flags really aren't something that should be apparent in any way to the player 100% of the time. I'm not referring to instances where you can stand in front of an invisible switch, but to flags that trigger a warp which is involved in a cutscene. Players would find themselves spending many minutes trying to figure out how to trigger a series of combos in front of a bridge or something, when in fact it's only triggerable by killing the Trigger Enemy, which you can't.

4) Lens hints may be even more useful as a screen flag settable. I.e. they could even be separate from secret flags entirely! If the Lens is meant to guide you, (Say, making invisible arrows apparent to you.) When you manage to find your way to that invisible floor button, the arrows shouldn't appear as the door opens. Yet, the mere presence of those arrows on the floor is determined by the secret flags that you place there. The Lens Hints should probably have a system of something similar to the Combo Alias system, where you can set a "stamp" of a lens hint and place it on the screen, along with a screen flag that states that when secrets are triggered (Or enemies are killed?) on that screen, the lens hints will no longer appear when using the Lens.

5) Now this idea of a ring's color is really cool. Can Misc1 Determine the Palette that Misc2's Cset will use? (That sentence is phrased in suggestion, not inquiry form.) That way, you could make a palette completely devoted to Link, and maybe even Color Cycle it. (Disco Link, anyone? Maybe a Fierce Diety Link whose eyes shine and glow?) However, if it's a ring item, it should probably also have other benefits tacked to it besides a defense multiplier. Perhaps one misc setting could toggle not a multiplier, but an additor! (Instead of taking half damage, or a thousandth damage, which is still damage, they could simply take half a heart less damage, rounding to zero, so if you had "Takes fifty less damage," you could potentially have an invulnerable Link on your hands, despite still being vulnerable to knockback.)


Sorry if I'm being a bother. I love these items (And their concepts.) and congratulate you thoroughly on your incorporation of them into ZC/ZQuest. :) The more refined we can make them, the more useful they'll be to everyone.

[The_Amaster]

These for pre or post 2.5? I mean, they all sound amazing, especially the stomp boots, but were headed back into "super complex buggy feature" territory. I personnaly don't mind waiting for 2.5 with them, but I know others are going to want them postponed...

[Din]

If there is a chance of bugs, would they be severe, annoying, or minor?:confused:

[_L_]

The Stomp Boots' logic is very simple: if you collide with an enemy, and your Z is greater than the enemy's Z (plus height), then the enemy takes damage instead of you. Substitute Z with Y in sideview. There will be an enemy flag determining if an enemy is immune to this or not. Also, maybe Link will "bounce off" enemies that he jumps on.

I don't know why you think the Peril Ring and the Peril Scroll are the same thing.

P.S: The Stone of Agony only responds to the following combo flags: Whistle, Burn 1, Burn 2, Burn 3, Burn 4, Arrow 1, Arrow 2, Arrow 3, Bomb (Any), Bomb (Super), Boomerang 1, Boomerang 2, Boomerang 3, Magic 1, Magic 2, Fireball (Reflected), Sword 1, Sword 2, Sword 3, Sword 4, Sword Beam 1, Sword Beam 2, Sword Beam 3, Sword Beam 4, Hookshot, Wand, Hammer, Strike.

[The_Amaster]

Does that mean that the stone of Agony works when you're next to flags? Because most boomerang/hookshot/arrow/etc. flags are put on solid objects.

[_L_]

Well, you can set the Stone of Agony's "sensitivity" by increasing its Power. It works the same as Damage Combo sensitivity does.

[_L_]

For size and simplicity's sake, I'm going to make it so that an item's ZQuest name is used as its Subscreen name. This means that you'll need to rename "Arrow 3 (Golden)" to "Golden Arrow" if you want it to be displayed as such in the subscreen.

[ShadowTiger]

Wasn't that its originally intended method?


... ... (This post makes me sound like an idiot. Oh well. I've had more than enough of that lately.)

[The_Amaster]

Sounds pretty intuitive, especcialy now that we can change names and stuff. And just wondering, I know the stomp boots are in now, but do they actually do anything yet?

[Master_of_Power]

Does the Bow's power determine how fast you shoot arrows?:rolleyes:

[_L_]

Sounds pretty intuitive, especcialy now that we can change names and stuff. And just wondering, I know the stomp boots are in now, but do they actually do anything yet?

Not really.


Does the Bow's power determine how fast you shoot arrows?I think so.

[_L_]

I've found a solution with regards to the Shield item class. One that I really ought to have thought of before.

Power: Dunno.

Misc1: Which projectiles to block. Sum the following values to produce combinations:
1: Rock
2: Spear
4: Boomerang
8: Fireball
16: Sword Beam
32: Magic
64: Fire
128: Ice Magic
256: Fireball 2

Misc2: Which projectiles to reflect back. Uses Misc1's values as well.

[_L_]

Ah, of course! Why didn't I think of it before?

Arrows
Misc1: Lifespan (in frames, 0 = unlimited)

Limited-range arrows! Just as the Deku Seeds in FSA have limited range, so too shall the arrows. (And this provides extra functionality for the Bows, too. Faster arrows = extended range.)

[ShadowTiger]

Perhaps a way to make them accelerate or slow down as well? That way you could provide a visual cue that they've actually got limited range, rather than them simply vanishing in midair.

[The_Amaster]

Somthing just occured to me. Will the stomp boots use the same graphics for the hammer pound?(Or any graphics at all for that metter) I mean, I'm not saying anything against that, I was just wondering.

[Majora]

Perhaps a way to make them accelerate or slow down as well? That way you could provide a visual cue that they've actually got limited range, rather than them simply vanishing in midair.

Would you be able to implement:

Arrow has limited range-> arrow is shot-> arrow slows down-> the point where its speed is zero, an "arrow Ammunition (1)" item spawns where it stopped.

[The_Amaster]

Something just occured to me. Should the different boots be(i.e have the option to be) equippable. I mean, right now we have regular boots, hover boots, and stomp boots. It doesn't make sense game wise. I mean, how can Link be wearing three pairs of boots at the same time.

(Oh, feature suggestion. If they are equippable, lets add in Pegasus boots. Would it be so hard to increase Link's speed(Honest question))

[_L_]

Pegasus Boots don't increase Link's walking speed - they give him a high speed dash attack with sword outstretched and a rumbling collision when he hits a wall.

[ShadowTiger]

But the Pegasus SEEDS do! Is his/our curiosity any less valid given his intentions? o_o

[DarkDragon]

Before going gung-ho making rings, boots, etc. equippable, don't forget the player's perspective: it can get annoying already having to switch between hookshot, hammer, candle, etc. when navigating a puzzle-dense dungeon. Do we really want to force them to go to the subscreen to activate abilities they probably want on all of the time anyway?

[Shoelace]

*drools on the Pegasus Boots*

You mention that they have go to the subscreen more often. That just popped a suggestion to make the subscreen come down faster. lol.

But really, it is up the author as, it is his/her job to think about that. It is a part of gameplay and it is the responsabity to make it so item using isn't annoying.

[_L_]

You mention that they have go to the subscreen more often. That just popped a suggestion to make the subscreen come down faster.

I'm on the case!

P.S: Not quite Double Clawshots, but Double Boomerangs will be possible by setting a Boomerang's misc2 to 2 - in case you ever get to a dungeon requiring you to hit two boomerang switches at exactly the same time for some extremely flimsy reason.

Serving suggestion: make it the L2 boomerang, and give the normal boomerang the "collect two to upgrade" flag?

P.P.S: Of course! I've got self-replenishing magic, but what about self-replenishing quivers, wallets and bomb bags?

P.P.P.S:

(Oh, feature suggestion. If they are equippable, lets add in Pegasus boots. Would it be so hard to increase Link's speed(Honest question))Well, given the inability of any of the developers, so far, to eliminate the "diagonal slow walk" bug, I'll have to say: it's a bit tricky!

[DarkDragon]

I can't remember a time when there *hasn't* been some unresolved movement bug, whether related to Z3 movement, Big Link, the raft, etc. So yes, the movement code is quite convoluted ;)

[ShadowTiger]

Well, seeing as this seems to be the general thread for the discussion of the new items and such, I thought I'd bring up something. I don't think it should be too hard to implement, (Or to reverse-implement, for that matter. o_o )


* Picking up any item of the Triforce Pieces class, including custom items, will now trigger the triforce cinematic.For those items which would just be added to the triforce list, would it be possible to have a screen flag which would disable that cinematic effect, and just add it to the proper place in the subscreen or game data? (As appropriate.) There may be occasions in which the player wouldn't want to have a cinematic triggered, as well as a side warp.

[Majora]

I think _L_ mentioned something about the cinematic triggering if it's Misc 1 is a positive number. So basically, I assume the cinematic will not be triggered if it's Misc 1=0, and will go to the proper spot.

[ShadowTiger]

Would be nice to be able to verify that (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96935), is all. :shrug: I mean, before I make a fool/ass (Assfoolery.) of myself for asking.

[_L_]

Fixed! (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=97283)