Sony to Europe: F U

[Warlock]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?Dispatch=Display&cId=3157441


Sony needs to start finding ways to save money on manufacturing PlayStation 3s, but most assumed that would come from cheaper chips became and more affordable Blu-ray production. Not so for Europe, however, as Sony Computer Entertainment Europe announced today they're actually removing the chips that allow for hardware-based backwards compatibility. They're going the Xbox 360 route and attempting software emulation for the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game libraries.

We've contacted both SCEE and SCEA for comment on the issue. What's to stop Sony from instituting the same policy on future revisions of American hardware?

SCEE's rationale is a bit reaching. The company claims the change means to generate a focus on PlayStation 3 software, rather than the old 'n broken machines. Does someone want to remind Sony that PS2 actually outsold PS3 in America last month? Clearly, the best response would be to start ignoring that hardware base. SCEE president David Reeves explains:


"Games designed for PS3 offer incredible graphics quality, stunning gameplay and massively improved audio and video fidelity that is simply not achievable with PS and PS2 games. Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology."

The press release says the European PS3 will be compatible with a "broad range" of original PlayStation games (they're easier to emulate) but a "limited range" of PS2 releases. They'll be launching a website on March 23rd with a searchable list of what will work and promise downloadable patches for more games. Based on experience with Microsoft's updates, however, this announcement says backwards compatibility will be forgotten a year from now.

What happened to Sony's old mantra of complete "legacy" backwards compatibility? Let's help Ken Kutaragi rewind to last fall:


"...the PS3 will feature backwards compatibility with PS and PS2 games from day one. I'm emphasizing this because, from what I hear, there are some platforms that haven't been able to completely do this. It's costly in terms of hardware, but we'd rather [invest] firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on."
From what we hear, that's not true anymore. Funny, just a couple months ago they were berating Microsoft for this very model. Hypocritical much?

[MottZilla]

It's a ploy to get you to buy your PS3 now before they remove hardware backwards compatibility! You better go buy a PS3 quick! ;p Honestly with how "powerful" they claim the PS3 is, shouldn't they have it software emulating PS2 titles? But you know they were going to remove the hardware eventually, they are losing lots of money. They need to cut cost.

[Warlock]

See that's the thing. There's nothing wrong with software emulation but it's way too damn late for that now. A "'limited range' of PS2 releases"? That's rediculous. If Sony wanted to do this, they should have really started a long time ago, building up compatibility to the point where at least *most* games are supported. Doing it now after denouncing Microsoft for their "lack of BC" (and Wii for "none" - lol) and not properly supporting it right off the bat is just suicide.

I also hear the PS3 will cost more in Europe - something like $900 when you convert it.

[ZTC]

Quite so, too =/

I'm not really surprised that Sony pulled that.

[Warlock]

I'm reading some of the Sony fanboy comments over at 1up and they are absolutely hilarious. The fanboys are completely behind Sony on this, and basically no one else is. Someone replied to the post in their message boards with this which is hilarious:


Seriously, Sony is so goddamn absurd I can't fathom ANYONE trying to spin this positively. Its at the point where if Kuturagi announced "the PS3 will rape your mother and blow up your house!", people would be like, "oh, thats not that bad...I mean my mom likes being raped and I hate my house anyway...seriously, cut Sony some slack".

[redmage777]

Next thing you know, Sony's going to invest a ton of money in its "Kill PS2" plot... Recall all the PS2s from stores, and forbid anyone from publishing titles for the PS2 "We want the focus to be on the PS3... Not that peice of crap that everyone seems to be obsessed with."

[MottZilla]

Well one thing to remember about the UK is that they add tax into the sticker price (VAT). Over here for whatever reason (like every god damn county having different sales tax rates) we don't. So right there that is some room for the difference. The other 200$ or so who knows. That's what you get for PAL50! That's it, it's the PAL50 punishment tax! =)

[Aegix Drakan]

Yet again Sony makes a stupid marketing desicion...

And I thought they could sink no lower.

-_- and why oh why are the fanboys still singing its praises? Oh wait...they're fanboys.

[Darth Marsden]

In the UK, PS3 bundles (Console, Controller, 60GB HD) are going on sale for £430, give or take.

That's around $850.

And, according to this, they're not going to have proper reverse-compatability.

FUCK YOU, SONY. FUCK YOU.

Source = Amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/B0007SV734/ref=s9_asin_title_1/026-4809792-9377209),Dollars-to-Pounds (http://www.dollars2pounds.com/)

[The_Amaster]

*Sigh* Why..why...why am I not suprised. You know, I used to not like Microsoft for things like this, like paying Office Max not to carry software for Macs(Yes, really), but Sony...Sony pretty much says "We have so much power, screw you we can do whatever we want." Sony is going to fall soon. The PSP was the start, with its mediocre sales, and the PS3 is going to damn them, I'd put money on it. Arogence, you have borught down mightier than Sony.

[{DSG}DarkRaven]

"Games designed for PS3 offer incredible graphics quality, stunning gameplay and massively improved audio and video fidelity that is simply not achievable with PS and PS2 games. Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology."


Why am I not completely surprised to see this generic, canned response come from Sony's marketing department? There's so much sugar slathered onto this statement, it's starting to attract bees. Half the statement is spent talking about how the PS3 really is the son of God, and the other half is spent talking about how the PS2 is old news, and it's owners are therefore losers.

I'm just surprised that so few members of Sony's fanbase are noticing this. I mean, yeah, I understand fanboyism, but seriously, are they so dedicated that they become complete idiots?

[Warlock]

Why am I not completely surprised to see this generic, canned response come from Sony's marketing department? There's so much sugar slathered onto this statement, it's starting to attract bees. Half the statement is spent talking about how the PS3 really is the son of God, and the other half is spent talking about how the PS2 is old news, and it's owners are therefore losers.

I'm just surprised that so few members of Sony's fanbase are noticing this. I mean, yeah, I understand fanboyism, but seriously, are they so dedicated that they become complete idiots?

Yeah, the thing about Sony fanboys is that they tend to be the worst of the bunch. It's like stockholme syndrome with them. I don't really get it. They take the worst abuse out of anyone and yet they would take a bullet for Sony if they had the opportunity.

Go to that topic I linked at the top and read the comments. I am laughing so hard. There are Sony fanboys who are saying that Europe is actually getting a "sweet deal" and they'd rather trade their US PS3s for European ones. LOL. The worst one over there is Dragon_Knight22 who posts in every single topic about how the "Wii60 fanboys are so biased against Sony that they will say anything to discredit them". It's really funny. I often enjoy teasing him just to get a rise out of him :D Works every time.

[Pineconn]

I really love Sony. Truly. They make me laugh so hard.

I kind of wonder why both NTSC and PAL exist and why we never just used one or the other from the "start." Making one universal today would be way too hard.

(@ Amaster: That cut scene at the end of Amateria was sweet!)

[{DSG}DarkRaven]

I kind of wonder why both NTSC and PAL exist and why we never just used one or the other from the "start." Making one universal today would be way too hard.


The same reason the other nine or so formats exist. It's to discourage international piracy. I think I saw a map of the different formats once, but I can't remember where it was. But china has it's own, I know, and I think Japan does too. That's all I can remember.

[Pineconn]

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/show_article.php?id=357

I believe this fan-made video is satiable in the Sony sucks department. However, it's more of a Microsoft > Sony video... possibly even bashing the Wii slightly. But if you're anti-Sony in any way, you need to watch it.

[Darth Marsden]

Nice video. Still wish the guy could actually sing though.

[The_Amaster]

Argghhh, there are so many factions. Pro Microsoft, anti-Sony, pro Nintendo, anti Sony and Microsoft, pro Sony and anti Microsoft, pro Sony and anti Nintendo....


So many different clans.

[MottZilla]

The same reason the other nine or so formats exist. It's to discourage international piracy. I think I saw a map of the different formats once, but I can't remember where it was. But china has it's own, I know, and I think Japan does too. That's all I can remember.

First off, there are only 3 major broadcast formats for TV. NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. NTSC is mainly North America and Japan. PAL is pretty much everywhere else. SECAM was the French standard which was developed to stop people from watching non-french broadcasts like from England. Although I think SECAM is still around in some countries. I'm not really sure. Btw, last I remember China was PAL. Although considering all the crap from japan they bootleg, it's not like NTSC stuff doesn't exist there.

One reason they don't worry about universal formats is because they are against importing. They want to set the prices for each region as they like. PAL/NTSC differences create a barrier to help them. But nowdays, with HDTVs so popular, they tend to support both PAL and NTSC, even SECAM in some cases.

So it really doesn't matter.

Edit: Here's a map of broadcast standards. http://www.totalmedia.com/images/NTSC-PAL-SECAM.jpg

[Pineconn]

So then what does Antarctica support? :tongue:

I'll tell you, I'm a proud supporter of the anti-Sony/MS, pro-Nintendo party. It's almost like politics, only without people interrupting your broadcasts with speeches you don't care about.

[Cloral]

Instead, you have to go to an online forum to read them. :)

The truth of the matter is, I want the PS3 to fail simply because I don't want to develop for it anymore. It is a huge pain in the ass. Microsoft did a good job getting their tools and development suite and documentation well-organized and integrated. Sony did not. And don't let their PR people tell you anything otherwise, it is a big fat lie.

[The_Amaster]

I know, I mean, I'm a pro-Apple, pro-Nintendo, anti-Sony, anti-Microsoft guy, and while I dislike the XBox for being Microsoft and all of the violent games and stuff on it, I can at least respect it as a good console. But the PS3? I dunno. Sony never really earned my respect. And now their actually in negative levels of respect, cause they started from 0 and went down.

[MottZilla]

The truth of the matter is, I want the PS3 to fail simply because I don't want to develop for it anymore. It is a huge pain in the ass. Microsoft did a good job getting their tools and development suite and documentation well-organized and integrated. Sony did not. And don't let their PR people tell you anything otherwise, it is a big fat lie.

I just love that comment. =D The thing is I'm not so sure Sony can't salvage this. I certainly think they are beyond dominance but not beyond survival at all.

[Nicholas Steel]

how will the patches for the ps2 games work? will they remove the copy protection? if not then i cant use tho's patches :( my cd burner cant do 1:1 copies.

[MottZilla]

how will the patches for the ps2 games work? will they remove the copy protection? if not then i cant use tho's patches :( my cd burner cant do 1:1 copies.

Patches? What? If games need special fixes the system would detect you are trying to run the game and check for an update which would handle any sort of patch similar to the Xbox 360. Sony would never endorse copying your games. And no DVD Burner sold will do "1:1" copies of things like PS2 games out of the box. However with a custom firmware you may be able to make bootable discs.

[Pineconn]

I know, I mean, I'm a pro-Apple, pro-Nintendo, anti-Sony, anti-Microsoft guy, and while I dislike the XBox for being Microsoft and all of the violent games and stuff on it, I can at least respect it as a good console. But the PS3? I dunno. Sony never really earned my respect. And now their actually in negative levels of respect, cause they started from 0 and went down.

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same way. I'm kind of meh with the 360, but I don't like the arrogance of Sony's. They just need to... not be morons. (In retrospect, I wish they continue to be morons so that I can ridicule them. :naughty:)

[redmage777]

I don't like Sony, Don't really like or hate MS or Apple, I like Nintendo but not to the point that I would call myself a fan boy. (Maybe I'm a Zelda Fan boy...) Any reasons I have not to like Microsoft are windows related, and have nothing to do with XBox. I also love the MacOS, just not the Mac Machines themselves (I prefer to build and maintain my system myself.)

Usually I don't Love or Hate and brand of hardware or software, in fact the PS2 is an awesome system, that should contine to make Sony alot of money if they don't do anything foolish like end it's life early in hopes to boost PS3 sales. It is only the PS3 (and everything PS3 Related) that I think was a big mistake on their part, it's too far ahead of its time and over priced (3DO, Neogeo anyone?)

[Warlock]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070226.jpg

[Pineconn]

...Mmm, I don't get it. I can't tell who's getting pwned.

[Warlock]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157529


People weren't expecting this announcement. Surely we have the right to know the number of PAL supported games before the launch?

We have been assessing the extent of backward compatibility, and will continue to do so right up until launch. It is therefore not possible to provide a specific number of backwards compatible titles at this stage, but close to launch consumers will be able to check whether their titles are compatible with PS3 by looking at the list of compatible titles at http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc. This site will be available on 23rd March to meet launch day.

Does this mean that the PS2 hardware chips have been removed completely and replaced with software-only emulation?

The original PS3 used the Emotion Engine/Graphics Synthesizer to emulate PS2 titles. With the latest European specification we have removed the Emotion Engine, retaining the graphics chip. This has an impact on the number of PS2 titles that will be backwards compatible.

If this is a business decision to save cost, why are users left to bear the burden, having to purchase a system inferior to those sold in the US and Japan at a higher price?

The PS3 launching in Europe is every bit as powerful as the PS3s available currently in North America and Japan. PS3 is defined by key features such as the CELL broadband engine, its Blu-ray drive, the SIXAXIS Controller and its ability to output full 1080P HD game content which makes it an entertainment system for the future, without equal.

PSOne titles remain backwards compatible and we will continue to assess the compatibility of PS2 titles right up until launch We will continue to offer firmware upgrades to increase the number of titles that are compatible, but rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology.

How will consumers be able to tell the difference between the fully compatible launch model available in America and Japan and the new degraded model?

On the external packaging of the PS3 there will be a small 'PAL' logo to denote that the PS3 is built for the European market (North American and Japanese models have a 'NTSC' logo). The model number will also appear on the label stuck to the top flap of the PS3 packaging (beginning CECHC followed by two digits -- see below).

In addition, each PS3 carries a barcode and serial number on the back of the system. At the end of the unique serial number for each console is the mode number. In the SCEE territories there are four model numbers:

Europe: CECHC04 UK and Ireland: CECHC03 Australia/New Zealand: CECHC02 Russia/India: CECHC08

Will the new updated hardware version improve the quality of the images of PS2 games on the PS3, as the current crop have been highly criticized?

This has already been achieved by a firmware upgrade, which will be incorporated in European launch models

Love how he dodges all the real questions with basically "it's fine, live with it" type responses.