Kid Icarus/Iceclimber/Kirby's Adventure on VC

[Orion]

So, now htat all three of these games are available today, I'm curious if any one knows which ones are any good? I picked up Kid Icarus and am liking it so far, but I'm unsure about Kirby and Ice Climber. Is Kirby at all similar to it's GB/SNES iterations?

[War Lord]

I'd skip Ice Climbers but totally recommend Kirby's Adventure.
That was the game that gave way to all the other kirby games. It's actually a great example of what the NES could do as well since it was released towards the very end of the NES' life span.
You won't be disappointed if you pick it up.

[MottZilla]

I recommend Kirby too. It's how Kirby really ended up so well known and liked. Ice Climbers is classic but you probably should skip it.

[Warlock]

Kirby's Adventure is probably the best Kirby game made. It's actually the very first one where he could steal powers (it's technically Kirby 2, but wasn't labeled that way.. Kirby's Dreamland 2 was released later for Gameboy)

I'm debating if I should get it though - I basically played the heck out of it back on the NES. I suppose for $5 it is a pretty great game.

[Cloral]

I played through Kirby several times. It is a lot of fun, though perhaps a bit too easy.

[AtmaWeapon]

Man oh man if I ever get my debit card back I've always wanted to play Kid Icarus for some reason. I think I'm going to blow a lot of money on VC in the coming weeks.

[Warlock]

Yeah, I need to play Kid Icarus properly. I've only ever played it once on an emulator. I *almost* rented it back in the NES days but changed my mind and regretted it afterwards :(

It was extremely fun on the emulator though, if not pretty friggin' hard. I want to play it without the crutch of save states though :D

Ice Climbers though, that game gets way more credit than it deserves, at least ever since they were included in SSBM. I've played it, mostly in Animal Crossing, and it's pretty lame.

[The_Amaster]

Kirby's Adventure was great. it had some really revolutionary stuff for a NES game. If you've played Nightmare in Dreamland, tho,it's the exact same game.

[Solair Wright]

Kirby's Adventure was a very good game, I admit. After beating the game once, you can try Extra mode. The only problem I have is that the game is fairly easy. Kid Icarus is very difficult, mostly because the fact of how you can die from falling in vertical scrolling areas. It's really frustrating when you're very close to completing a level, then you die from one misjudged jump, and you have to start ALL over again.

Ice Climbers isn't a good game at all. It's nowhere near as fun as some games, but my gripe is the pretty loose play control. What do I mean? If you jump, you have a chance of hitting into an enemy or icicle.

[Warlock]

I downloaded Kid Icarus and Kirby last night. Kid Icarus is kicking my ass though, I swear. I didn't play it too much, but it's pretty brutal. It's funny that you can tell it's by the Metroid team because it looks a lot like the original Metroid and especially the SFX and Music are obviously done by the same guy (they are very similar, and I think Pit even uses the same walking SFX as Samus). I think the game gets easier once you beat the first level and can get some more life.. I just gotta pass that hurdle :D

Kirby is a lot of fun too. I forgot how fun it was. I told myself I was just gonna play one level and go to bed, and before I knew it I was halfway done with the second world. :P Man though, Whispy Woods is friggin' easy with that ice ability. I just sat next to him and spammed it and he died in seconds before he could even attack me.

[Mak-X]

I have never seen past the beginning of the second stage of Kid Icarus. I hear there's several levels.

In related news, looks like Pit is making trouble again. (http://oldskooled.comicgenesis.com/)

[AlexMax]

I downloaded Kid Icarus and Kirby last night. Kid Icarus is kicking my ass though, I swear. I didn't play it too much, but it's pretty brutal. It's funny that you can tell it's by the Metroid team because it looks a lot like the original Metroid and especially the SFX and Music are obviously done by the same guy (they are very similar, and I think Pit even uses the same walking SFX as Samus). I think the game gets easier once you beat the first level and can get some more life.. I just gotta pass that hurdle :D

Kid Icarus uses the same engine that Metroid used. In addition, they were released on the exact same day and promoted the exact same gimmick of a password save. And the Japanese version of Kid Icarus came out on the FDS, just like the Japanese Metroid, and had three save slots.


I have never seen past the beginning of the second stage of Kid Icarus. I hear there's several levels.

That's exactly what I figured when I watched a speedrun of Kid Icarus the other day. What I saw was very surprising, turns out it's way more than just another vertical platformer, there are explorable 'boss' stages every four levels, and the second set of levels is actually sidescrolling. With a blue background. And the final stage? Well...biggest WTF ever in my book.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7187645883092280282

[Warlock]

I have never seen past the beginning of the second stage of Kid Icarus. I hear there's several levels.

In related news, looks like Pit is making trouble again. (http://oldskooled.comicgenesis.com/)

Yeah, I beat it *once* on an emulator, but I cheated and used save states. It's a great game, just hard as hell. I am determined to beat it on VC :D

After you beat it, it puts you back on the first level but with all the crap you bought/found previously.

[Orion]

Kid Icarus really isn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. Sure, the levels 1/1-1/4 were a little on the hard side, but once you get to the second stage with the horizontal levels, I've had no troubles so far.

[Warlock]

Kid Icarus really isn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. Sure, the levels 1/1-1/4 were a little on the hard side, but once you get to the second stage with the horizontal levels, I've had no troubles so far.

I think the difficulty is with the low amount of health you start with.. Also, you're probably right - I think the sidescrolling stages will be easier. It's mostly when enemies are coming from above or below you that it's difficult to dodge/attack them.

[MottZilla]

Kid Icarus uses the same engine that Metroid used. In addition, they were released on the exact same day and promoted the exact same gimmick of a password save. And the Japanese version of Kid Icarus came out on the FDS, just like the Japanese Metroid, and had three save slots.

Really!? Who'd have thought 2 games made by the same people would be so similar? :p

Both games also has sentance long looking passwords to do cool shit. Like PACKING PACKING PACKING PACKING puts you on the last dungeon and you're loaded with good shit in Kid Icarus. I'm sure everyone remember JUSTIN BAILEY ------ ------. Good games but I wouldn't pay for a ROM and emulator. :O

[Warlock]

Ok, I decided to play some more Kid Icarus tonight. The game gets MUCH easier once you get an extra bar of life (~18,000 points I think). In level 1-3 I also got an arrow upgrade and a bow upgrade (long range). And then 1-4 is great because it's pretty open-ended. For example, you can keep leaving and re-entering a room to kill enemies for hearts, then go to the shop (which doesn't close in fortresses) and buying life bottles, etc. It takes awhile but it makes it easier.

Then I did World 2 and that one is a lot of fun. I got *another* arrow upgrade (Pit is purple now :D) and the rest of my weapons upgrades (force field and fire arrows). I love world 2 because it's all side-scrolling which is much more managable. There are a lot of pits, but overall that just means making big leaps, not really much different than playing Super Mario Bros (1), specifically world 8-type leaps. So it's still not easy, but it's less stressful than worrying about stepping two pixels to the left and falling off the screen every two seconds like in the top-scrolling levels. Also, there are these enemies that drop from the sky over and over. They are rediculously easy to dodge and killing them gives a full heart every time, so you can make a ton of money just by killing as many as you can each time they fall. I was actually up to 999 hearts for awhile there.

What's not cool are the stupid thief enemies that will steal your weapons (bow/wand/fire). I made the mistake of trying to kill the suckers the first time and had both of my weapons stolen -_- I died shortly after, which was good, because when you die you just start out at the beginning of the level exactly how you entered it (so I got my weapons back).

Also, Eggplant Wizards friggin' suck! They are not *too* bad if you can get close enough to them so they don't hit you, but half the time they'll stick snake jars in there so you have snakes dropping on your head, or they'll put them in weird places (i.e. one time I climbed down a ladder into a room and was instantly egg-planted because the guy was at the base of the ladder and threw one up just as I entered the screen)

[MottZilla]

Kid Icarus is an awesome game. Thank the Famicom Disk System for that. ;) The Famicom Disk System paved the way for our Kid Icarus, Metroid, Legend of Zelda, Zelda 2, and Super Mario Allstars' Lost Levels. Some good accomplishments for a failed system. ;)

[Warlock]

Kid Icarus is an awesome game. Thank the Famicom Disk System for that. ;) The Famicom Disk System paved the way for our Kid Icarus, Metroid, Legend of Zelda, Zelda 2, and Super Mario Allstars' Lost Levels. Some good accomplishments for a failed system. ;)

Yeah, though I wish they'd update our Kid Icarus & Metroid (and the Castlevanias I think?) to support save games over passwords. I mean, other than that, how much of the game is really different? Just retranslate the Japanese one - that shouldn't be hard :P I always hate password systems.

But one thing I will say - NES Zelda 2 > FDS Zelda 2. I guess it was a space issue with the FDS disk or something, I don't know. But I've played the FDS version on an emulator and it's vastly inferior - at least from a technical standpoint. Every palace uses the same tileset (from Palace 1) with only two alternating color schemes (gray or teal). Quite disappointing. Only exception is Palace 9 which is on Side B I guess so they had more room for tiles. There were other things that just seemed inferior, especially in the way of Nintendo going back and just polishing some aspects for the NES version - making some sprites more detailed, adding new villager sprites, etc.

BTW, if you want a laugh, go read GameSpot's VC review of Kid Icarus. They give it a friggin' 5.1. I mean, they gave Ice Climbers a higher score for crying out loud! The review is so biased - they knock it because "the graphics suck", claiming "single color backgrounds" and "lack of decent sprite animations" among others. Gee, funny because Super Mario Bros also features single color backgrounds, and most enemies in that game have two frames or less - Bowser has ONE. Yet that game is a classic? I mean, if they want to knock it for the difficulty, that's ok - the first level is probably *too* difficult compared to the rest of the game. But it's not a 5.1 game. It's maybe an 8.5ish game. The game doesn't have to have SNES-quality sprites to be enjoyable.

[MottZilla]

But one thing I will say - NES Zelda 2 > FDS Zelda 2. I guess it was a space issue with the FDS disk or something, I don't know. But I've played the FDS version on an emulator and it's vastly inferior - at least from a technical standpoint. Every palace uses the same tileset (from Palace 1) with only two alternating color schemes (gray or teal). Quite disappointing. Only exception is Palace 9 which is on Side B I guess so they had more room for tiles. There were other things that just seemed inferior, especially in the way of Nintendo going back and just polishing some aspects for the NES version - making some sprites more detailed, adding new villager sprites, etc.

The Famicom Disks held 64KB (alittle more actually as I recall) on each side, making it 128k or so, which equals Zelda 2's rom size release. The palace palette issue was clearly just a revisional issue. The room needed to have another palette would be a few bytes, nothing more. Infact if you look the FDS version actually has some things the cartridge didn't like animating water. I think most of the improvements on the NES version were because they had a new development cycle to translate, port to cartridge, and make refinements. The FDS though was fully capable of producing a better game than the NES cartridge Zelda 2. Esspecially because if they wanted they could have used an additional disk. But oh well.

And I hate people who review classic games from the 80s or early 90s and don't seem to realize... it's from the 80s or 90s... Ya, Kid Icarus sucks, it doesn't support 1080p, and where's the Bluray! Those cheap bastards. ;p

[Warlock]

The Famicom Disks held 64KB (alittle more actually as I recall) on each side, making it 128k or so, which equals Zelda 2's rom size release. The palace palette issue was clearly just a revisional issue. The room needed to have another palette would be a few bytes, nothing more. Infact if you look the FDS version actually has some things the cartridge didn't like animating water. I think most of the improvements on the NES version were because they had a new development cycle to translate, port to cartridge, and make refinements. The FDS though was fully capable of producing a better game than the NES cartridge Zelda 2. Esspecially because if they wanted they could have used an additional disk. But oh well.

And I hate people who review classic games from the 80s or early 90s and don't seem to realize... it's from the 80s or 90s... Ya, Kid Icarus sucks, it doesn't support 1080p, and where's the Bluray! Those cheap bastards. ;p

Heh, I was going to say that but then revisied it because I changed my mind and thought it may have been a space issue :P It's actually sort of a shame for Japan, for once they have the inferior version of the game. Nintendo should take our version, add back in the animations, and make one definative version for both regions :P They'd have to retranslate for Japan of course though (but I figure that's easier than gutting the FDS version). In fact, they should do that with most of the FDS titles to retain the save game awesomeness.... but they won't :P

And yeah, exactly. And really, they complain about difficulty like it's the hardest game in the world. The game isn't *that* hard. If you are willing to spend maybe an hour getting used to it and getting through the first two levels, it's no problem after that. Honestly if the game had checkpoints I don't even think people would be complaining - it's the having to start all over at the start of the level after almost getting to the end that gets people upset.

Edit: I forgot, we also got a new boss or two. I'm forgetting exactly which ones they were, but I know for sure that Gooma (big Ogre guy) was exclusive to the NES version - Japan got another Helmethead there I think. The other one I think - Japan got Horsehead as a miniboss somewhere I believe.. IIRC he was just replaced with a Blue Ironknuckle in ours.

Edit2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shtPb6D-NFs
Found an awesome video illustrating some of the changes. I forgot how crappy Volvagia looks in the Japanese version :)

[MottZilla]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the differences are that big of a deal. Although in the japanese version, aren't you free to level up as you choose where as in the US they force you to do it evenly?

[Warlock]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the differences are that big of a deal. Although in the japanese version, aren't you free to level up as you choose where as in the US they force you to do it evenly?

No, the Japanese one is really really weird. IIRC everything has a set price. So it's like "the first thing you buy" is 50xp. "The next thing you buy" is 100xp, etc. It's insanely cheap. So you can literally get 8 Attack by the end of Palace 1 (I did it). It makes the game rediculously easy because you can max out stuff early on. It completely changes the dynamic of the game.

On top of that, as the video semi-illustrated, Tektites and Zoras (they are the guys that look like lizards that crawl on the ground) which normally require Fire spell to kill (US version) can be sword-slashed. Other stuff just makes the Japanese version way easier.

Then aside from that, other than water the graphics are inferior pretty much everywhere. The music is also somewhat different (i.e. battle music) - I think the US version is a bit better.

Edit: LOL I watched the video with sound - that boss roar sounds like friggin' Chewbacca

[Mak-X]

Miyamoto commented on Zelda 2 once in the September 2003 issue of Nintendo Official Magazine (UK). This was before the release of the Zelda Collector's Edition disc and GBA rerelease.


NOM UK: Getting onto Zelda, are there any plans yet to re-release The Adventures Of Link? Currently it's only available on the Famicom Disk System in Japan and they've stopped making them.

Miyamoto: That... is a secret. Link's Adventure... if we were to just bring it out again, it wouldn't be enough fun. It's a little rough around the edges, isn't it? The Disk System had certain limitations and if we were using the cartridge format it would have been better. You know, the American version is improved. It would be great if we were to give the American version of Link's Adventure to Japan, but... [shrugs]. Even among our staff, they love Link's Adventure. They're always saying, "Let's do it on GameCube!" [laughs] But I don't know. Not yet.

I played through the FDS of Zelda 2 a while back... I'd like to get an actual Famicom AV and Disk System someday and play the original versions.

The NES version of Zelda 2 is much more polished and is the better version. It just seems like they needed more time to work on it, as Miyamoto mentions it being rough around the edges and that the U.S. version was improved.

The battle theme in the FDS version is kinda neat, it adds a dreading tension to the game when going through caves and fields. Its one of the only Zelda 2 themes used in another Zelda game, The Minish Cap.

I liked the original prologue in the FDS version though, a few of the details were edited out of the U.S. one.

The elevators in the palaces were slower in the FDS version. The AI in the game was a little different for somethings too. The people outside of the houses in towns would only move left to right, where in the NES version they might move right slowly, then stop, and then turn around. The Goriya that's guarding the first heart container south of Parapa does not move back when you get near him in the FDS version.

That's a pretty good video of the two versions. I just noticed that the boss theme in the NES version has a few extra notes to keep it from getting repetitive. I hear they also extended the songs in Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA) from Doki Doki Doki Panic with the above ground theme, and Metroid's escape theme.

Heh, Volvagia's constant roar makes it sound like a self destruct sequence has started on the palace.

[Orion]

My thoughts on people not liking Kid Icarus are this: some seem to think a game is no good if you *gasp* die. They don't have the patience to replay things more than once anymore. It also seems to be the reason why in Zelda TP, when you die, you often start in the very room of the dungeon that you died in. People just don't like a good challenge, I guess, and they look for other reasons (graphics/older play mechanice) to bash the game.

[mrz84]

I can't do the VC thing becuase I can't afford the system. However, I have played all three of these games on the NES. They kicked ass for their time, especially Kirby's Adventure and Kid Icarus. The farthes I've ever gotten in Ice Climbers was somewhere around Level 10 or 12. :meh: Kirby's Adventure was excellent and despite it's graphical appearance to today's games, I'd play it over some realistic game that has a sucky plot and horrid gameplay. People bashing older games is never gonna stop, so let's just ignore the bastards that do it and continue playing the games we know are great despite their appearances. :kitty:

[MottZilla]

I've thought for a long time now that gamers these days are lazy, and just can't handle challenges. Like how Warlock complains about Battletoads. :p

[Warlock]

I've thought for a long time now that gamers these days are lazy, and just can't handle challenges. Like how Warlock complains about Battletoads. :p

Dude, I've seen Kid Icarus fans complain about Battletoads:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=937922&topic=33668883&page=1


Let me say, as somebody who cheated their way through most of Battletoads on a Game Genie, and actually managed to make it to level 9 without one, that Battletoads is where we should draw the line between "fun hard" and this "masochism" Gamespot keeps talking about. Kid Icarus is extremely hard, yes, but Battletoads litterally forces you to complete certain sequences flawlessly, and often with little warning. The speeder bikes are the most notorious example of this. You had to be psychic or incredibly stubborn (I was stubborn) in order to even glimpse level 4 or 5, much less the deathtraps to follow. And level 11? You have to ride a giant wheel perfectly around corners while being chased by an enemy faster than you. Much faster.

Give me Kid Icarus any day, but we don't need no stinkin' Battletoads on the VC. THAT's just too hardcore.

[MottZilla]

Sounds like loser talk to me! If you are good you can BREEZE through Battletoads no problem. When I was regularly retrogaming I used to blast through Battletoads once a day on the Genesis.

[Mak-X]

Though I bought the Virtual Console release, I cleaned my Kid Icarus cartridge last night and got it working for once. I made it to 1-3, the farthest I've gotten. I like the vertical platforming for the stages, its just really tough since you can die by falling below the screen, and when you die, you start from the beginning of the stage.

I can't remember the last game I used a password for, I'll have to write one down eventually. I played Metroid on the Metroid Prime disc and Metroid Zero Mission cartridge with the password save feature.

Battletoads (NES) is hardcore tough though. I remember liking Battletoads and Double Dragon (NES) more because I was able to get through a good amount of the game because of the difficulty. It's been a long time since I've played either though.

[The_Amaster]

I kinda like Ice Climbers. I mean, it's addicting in a Pac-Man kinda way. I wish I had a Wii to play VC, but my friend has one, so he spends all the money(Ha). No need to buy the original Zelda, tho(Second Ha)

[Mak-X]

So I've been playing Kid Icarus all weekend on my NES

http://www.adventureofhyrule.com/game/screens/kidicarus1.gif
http://www.adventureofhyrule.com/game/screens/kidicarus2.gif

Those Boss maze stages can be tough just because of all the back tracking and the Eggplant Wizards turning Pit into a eggplant. Really good game that never can decided what kind of game it wants to be, and getting by the difficult areas gives a lot of satisfaction.

[Warlock]

Hehe, I beat it with a higher score :P

[Mak-X]

It took about 20 seconds to get through the results screen of 3-4 because I had gotten so many points on that level. I spent a lot of time just killing stuff for money, and refilling my life.

Now I'm going to go back and beat that last stage again and see what my final score was!

My cartridge screwed up and garbled the ending screen too. Are there multiple endings in this game?

edit: 426900
Still not high enough I'm sure...

[Saffith]

My cartridge screwed up and garbled the ending screen too. Are there multiple endings in this game?
There are five endings. Which you get depends on whether you have a five-block life bar, strength level of five, 999 hearts, and all three weapons. If you have none of those, you get the worst ending; all four, you get the best.

[Warlock]

Technically there are six if you count the ending the Japanese FDS version has that we don't - but then we have one they don't :P I guess if you do really bad (like no upgrades at all) Pit's face turns into a Specknose (one of those flying glasses things)

The one I got was where he turns into a soldier. I think it's the second best.

[Mak-X]

I think I got the same ending, he gets a helmet and a spear.

After the ending graphics got garbled, stage 1-1 still had garbled graphics so I thought they had remixed the graphics for the second time through. Wish I had taken a picture, some of the platforms were upsidedown spikes, and the flying red enemies looked different.

[Warlock]

I think I got the same ending, he gets a helmet and a spear.

After the ending graphics got garbled, stage 1-1 still had garbled graphics so I thought they had remixed the graphics for the second time through. Wish I had taken a picture, some of the platforms were upsidedown spikes, and the flying red enemies looked different.

Yeah, you had pretty much the same items as me so I think we both got the same ending because of that. I think we are missing one attack upgrade and possibly one life upgrade and that's it.

And that's weird about the graphics, must be a bug.