Sony Inserts Foot Into Mouth.... again -_-

[Warlock]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?Dispatch=Display&cId=3156850

As 2007 moves into gear, the dust is starting to settle. The Christmas season is over, the post-holiday lull has returned and gamers, publishers and analysts are trying to predict the market's next move. The New York Times examined the issue this morning, coming to the same conclusion as everyone else so far: Xbox 360 holds the lead, Wii has the most momentum, PlayStation 3 selling solid but lagging behind.

What's striking, however, is how Sony frames the currently hot sales for Nintendo's new console. "Wii could be considered an impulse buy more than anything else," said David Karraker, SCEA's senior director of corporate communication, suggesting PS3 and Wii shouldn't be considered in the same category.

Does that even make sense? Wouldn't Sony want PS3 to be an impulse buy, the kind of console people buy because they simply can't stop themselves from grabbing one? The price point is the stickler here, and considering Nintendo's already profiting from each Wii sold, they have far more room to maneuver in terms of price points in the future, too. The question is why Sony implies an "impulse buy" is an insulting description -- would Sony feel disappointed if PS3 was this holiday's "impulse buy," too?

You could argue impulse is a temporary state of affairs, as has been commonly argued by Wii's critics. Then again, Sony's President of Worldwide Studios Phil Harrison said the same thing about Nintendo DS roughly 18 months ago, and that didn't exactly pan out.

"With the DS, it's fair to say that Nintendo stepped out of the technical race and went for a feature differentiation with the touch screen," Harrison says. "But I fear that it won't have a lasting impact beyond that of a gimmick - so the long-lasting appeal of the platform is at peril as a direct result of that."

There's no doubt Wii's success could be temporary, but there's no saying it won't be, either.

I'm going to copy/paste my reply at 1up because it's just as valid:

It's comments like these that are the reason I've lost all respect for Sony. I was extremely excited for the PS3 until they actually revealed the thing at e3. The price tag wasn't even the issue, though it sucked hard (I can afford a $600 console, not that I *want* to afford a $600 console, but if the PS3 was really worth getting I would have).

It's all the comments that came out of their president's mouth afterwards that really made me change my mind about getting one. It's obvious they are so arrogant and egotistical and care nothing about the consumer. Talking smack about the competition is expected, though they tend to take it to rediculousness like the above. But when you trash on the consumer that's just bad business. All the "well people will work hard to afford our console", "I want robots to make me breakfast but that's not realistic", fake viral marketing campaign, and other condescending talk from them is really why I hope the PS3 flops. They need to learn some humility.

And to be objective, the same could have been said about Nintendo back in the 90s. Not on the egotistical, "customer is never right" front, but they had their own set-in-stone mindsets about things like blood in games, carts are better than CDs, online is not important, we don't care about Squaresoft, etc. that ended up screwing them over starting with the N64. They are only now starting to really recover from that. And to be fair, most of that is similar because it was mainly directives and stuff out of Yamauchi's mouth that started all this. As soon as Iwata took over things were turning around, though of course that was somewhere mid-GC so not quite for that console (but GC was definately an improvement over the N64 in terms of 3rd party support, etc).

I guess the reason Sony's crap bothers me more is that at least through all of that, Nintendo still cared about the customer. They made some stupid decisions, but at least they didn't fling mud all around and badmouth the people signing their checks.

[ZTC]

Think Sony will ever recover from the bs?

[MottZilla]

I don't think Sony will be down and out, but I don't think they will start to do very well until they drop that price. No one wants to pay 600$ for a console. Even 500$ is fucking steep. The 400$ I spent on the 360 was a large chunk of cash really, but atleast I've put it to many many many hours of use. Generally every single day. I could not do the same with PS3, and it costs much more. And a brand name doesn't do shit for you on it's own.

[Darth Marsden]

Yeah, Sony sucks ass, etc. It really doesn't bear mentioning at this point. One or two more comments like this and we'll be able to just say 'Sony' and have everyone break out in a self-knowing smile, much like we do now with 'Duke Nukem Forever'.

Out of curiosity, what PS3 games have been released so far that people would consider 'must-buys'? I'm guessing not many...

[Orion]

I think Sony's sales will eventually pick up as the price inevitably comes down, and more games are released. But at the moment, I must say it's very satisfying to see all of those PS3's sitting on store shelves and not moving.

But I do recall Nintendo making rather rash statments about consumers a few years ago too. They made some rather bold assumptions about what consumers didn't want, and when Yamauchi opened his mouth, Nintendo fans everywhere were wondering what in the world he was thinking. I seem to him remember him saying at some point "fans don't care about online play."

[Grasshopper]

Quoted from Jack Tretton - President and CEO, SCEA (GI Feb 2007 p20)
How aggressive do you have to be with the PS3 price point? How long will it be before the price drop and what will you drop it to?
...I think the consumers that get their hands on a Playstation 3 clearly see the value and not only want one for $599, in some instances they're willing to pay ridiculous prices to buy one off of eBay. I don't think that price as compared to the value and the technology we're givbing consumers is something we need to be concerned about any time soon.

So, we shouldn't expect the price drops to be as soon or as drastic as they were for the Playstation 2?
No.

[vegeta1215]

I seem to him remember him saying at some point "fans don't care about online play."

I don't remember anyone at Nintendo saying that specifically (maybe Yamauchi did - if so I wouldn't be surprised, that guys is nuts). I do remember that they stated over and over again that it was a business decision, and they were waiting for the right time. Back then broadband and wireless penetration was terrible. Today is a different story though.

These kinds of decisions, ie smart business decisions, though maybe not to the consumer's liking, have allowed Nintendo to build up that big pile of cash they have. That big pile of cash has allowed Nintendo to try some cool things, regardless of whether they turn out the way they hoped. (e-reader and Gameboy micro are two that come to mind)

btw, I was in Wal-mart today and actually saw some Wiis in stock. It's very tempting for me to get one, but I'm still gonna wait a while. Oh yeah, I can't believe Sony continues to says these kinds of things. I didn't think they could possibly get any more arrogant, but I guess I was wrong.

[MottZilla]

I think Sony's sales will eventually pick up as the price inevitably comes down, and more games are released. But at the moment, I must say it's very satisfying to see all of those PS3's sitting on store shelves and not moving.

The thing is Sony will not be in a position to drop the price of the PS3 for quite awhile. They can't keep losing money on selling the systems forever. And just because PS3s are on the shelves doesn't mean Blue Laser diodes have gotten cheaper to produce, or that the Cell processor is any cheaper. Infact I imagine neither will be that much cheaper anytime soon. And Sony had said many times that the PS3's price will stick around. But I think eventually they'll be forced to lower it to get sales going. I mean I really don't think 500$/600$ is going to move many units. Even among their loyal base, only the diehard fans are going to go ahead and get one when the better games come out.

But like many people, I don't really care about PS3, my interest is in the Xbox 360 and the Wii and what is coming out in the future.

[Dragon Omega]

My message is very simple on this subject.
To SCEA : "I can live without a PS3. Get over it." :mischief:

[Imprisoned]

This highlights a very good thing in the Wii - it really is suitable for everyone.
It is affordable.

Nintendo really wants people to have fun.

[The_Amaster]

Yeah, I've disliked Sony for a long time. I don't even know what it is, either, I just never really liked them. Somthing about them set me off. As for the Wii being a fad/impulse buy thing, well, I strongly doubt that. The Wii has somthing that no other console has, that is going to keep it steady: non-gamers can just pick it up
That alone means the customer base is like tripled.

[MottZilla]

I would like to say while the Wii is affordable, it's also virtually non-purchasable. I didn't look REALLY hard, but no where seemed to have any. I can't say I'm disappointed though. I'd rather wait till Wii is cheaper. I only really need the one Next-gen system I already have, the 360.

[DarkFlameWolf]

you sure? Just walked right into a random EB Games and they had like 5 systems on the shelf of the Wii.

[Darth Marsden]

Try doing that in the UK - can't get one for love nor money*.

Not that I want one right now though. The system is fantastic and I will pick one up, but only when the games are there to back it up. I only see a couple I'd want ATM, so I'll hang about until more that interest me come out. That, or Nintendo finally decide to release a BLACK CONSOLE. YOU HEAR ME, GUYS? DO IT! DO IT NOW!

'cause I'd so get one.

*This does not include eBay.

[Grasshopper]

you sure? Just walked right into a random EB Games and they had like 5 systems on the shelf of the Wii.

Are you sure they actually have them, or are you looking at just boxes? I only say that because almost everyone who comes in the store around here thinks they have them just because there are boxes on the shelves. When the boxes are just boxes. They don't mean anything. I haven't seen a Wii in my store since December or early-Jan.

[Lotus_Eater]

My Wal-Mart usually sells out within 4 or 5 hours of receiving them, we tend to get between 4-6 at a time. We just sold our last PS3 from December two days ago. They are selling slower than 360's.

[erm2003]

I had some friends who walked into a store that had several of them in stock and only 3 people in line for them. They were able to walk right up and purchase one. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. That's how I found mine at 4 PM on Black Friday.

[Imprisoned]

That, or Nintendo finally decide to release a BLACK CONSOLE. YOU HEAR ME, GUYS? DO IT! DO IT NOW!
A black GameCube has been around long enough... I've had one for about 2-3 years.
Well there's a black Wii too...

[Warlock]

N64 was also black :P And there have been black Gameboys and DSes :P

[Pineconn]

(I think he meant that Nintendo should release a black Wii....


Well there's a black Wii too...

...which doesn't exist yet.)

[Warlock]

The thing is that adding additional colors complicates things. Nintendo is already rushing to meet production demands as it is. To throw another color in the mix is bad right now.

Look at it this way: Nintendo currently has people still lining up to get a Wii. But let's say they release a Black Wii to go with the White one. Now Nintendo is giving people a choice. But what if the store only has White units in stock? People who wanted the Black Wii may decide to pass or wait until they can get the color they want. Suddenly demand is not so high. It's just easier for everyone to only have one console, thus supply of one over the other is not a concern, just overall supply (not to mention they only have to manufacture one type of unit, that speeds things up). Once Wii is readily available I'm sure they will issue new colors.

To use another example, look at the current PS3 situation. While you can find PS3s all over, the 20gb models are much more frequent, because people want the 60gbs. So meanwhile, the 20gbs sit on store shelves, unsold and unwanted. And you end up with a lot of bulk inventory.

[DarkDragoonX]

Yes, I'm sure that having white system instead of a black one is just going to clash terribly the color scheme of your entertainment center, which will then cause the room to not be perfectly matched. This in turn will mean your entire house is flawed, and now the whole block's feng shui is ruined, and one thing leads to the next, and before you know it the planet spontaneously explodes, all because you just HAD to have a white console. Way to go.

Seriously, though, when I think about buying a system, "what colors are they available in?" appears in my question-asking hierarchy somewhere between "not even vaguely important" and "who gives a damn?"

[Warlock]

Yes, I'm sure that having white system instead of a black one is just going to clash terribly the color scheme of your entertainment center, which will then cause the room to not be perfectly matched. This in turn will mean your entire house is flawed, and now the whole block's feng shui is ruined, and one thing leads to the next, and before you know it the planet spontaneously explodes, all because you just HAD to have a white console. Way to go.

Seriously, though, when I think about buying a system, "what colors are they available in?" appears in my question-asking hierarchy somewhere between "not even vaguely important" and "who gives a damn?"

iPod

[Cloral]

When Nintendo did offer various colors on the N64, it was because the system wasn't selling very well. They used it as a ploy to try to get people to buy the system. Although when they first released concept shots of the Wii in 2005 they showed it in a variety of colors. And the DS is available in a few different colors (3 here in the states I believe), so they may start offering a few different colors sometime in the not too distant future. Though since I already have my Wii it doesn't make much difference to me. I just want the wiimote chargers to come out already.

[Lotus_Eater]

My NES only came in grey, I didn't complain back then did I? I got a white Wii and I am happy with a white Wii.

[DarkDragoonX]

iPod

And I fervently hope that Steve Jobs and his inane iChique fall into a pit and die.

[The_Amaster]

Awww...come on man, root for the underdog. Apple's been trailing after Microsoft for years now. It's nice to see the shoe on the other foot for a bit. (Ha ha, stupid Zune)

[Pineconn]

Lol, the Zune. Pretty sad right there.

I'm glad that Microsoft is getting beat by Apple. It's my typical Nintendo fanboyism. :p And with that, I join the 1000 Club.

[AtmaWeapon]

You know the recent Apple surge is kind of interesting, particularly with events concerning the Vista launch.

So you have Apple, a company that owns 70% of the digital music download market and distributes its own hardware + OS. Then you have Microsoft, a company that competes with Apple in the digital music download market and dominates the OS market with its own product.

For the popular Apple music products to work with Windows Vista, Microsoft's new competitor to OS X, a driver must be developed for the iPod and iTunes has to be updated. The betas for Vista have been out for at least a year but I think more like 2 years, but Apple requires more time (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02/09/apple_unready_for_vista/), and their advice to those seeking to upgrade to Windows Vista is to avoid upgrading until Apple releases a fix. When's the fix come out? Some time in the next few weeks.

I seriously can't see this as anything but an attempt to undermine Vista adoption and possibly increase its own user base, since they've had plenty of time to produce Vista-compatible versions of their software.

Anyway I don't think color is or has ever been a very large selling point on the iPod. I bought a black one because black high-gloss just looks so sexy, but from reports of warranty service I hear support for getting replacements on the black ones is tough because they produce more of the white ones. Furthermore, if you look at the color distribution of the current Nano range, you see that only the midrange models offer color; if you buy the cheap ones you get a choice between aluminum or keeping your money. If you buy the 8GB model you get a choice between black or keeping your money. This is kind of confusing to me because you'd think the customers that pay the most would get the most choices but oh well.

[Orion]

I think color sells better than you think, especially with the mass-market. Casual people like to customize things, much like cell phone covers. And the vast majority of nano's I see around now are of the colored variety.

My ipod, however, is white. Not because I didn't want color (I'd love shiny red or blue), but because it was free with my MacBook Pro :)

I love Apple... they just need to fix their issues with their music licensing so I can quit using Yamipod to get my music on more than one machine.

Oh, were we talking about games?

[Prrkitty]

Paul bought me an 8GB Red IPod. Apparently if you want a color other then black, for the 8GB, you need to purchase directly from Apple.

[Dechipher]

I kind of like the uniformity of the white Apple look. Everything is iWhite. It's cool.

[MottZilla]

My NES only came in grey, I didn't complain back then did I? I got a white Wii and I am happy with a white Wii.

Wrong, the NES came in White with that toploader revision in 1993, plus count the japanese versions and it came in red, black, and blue I think. The Sharp Twin famis had atleast 3 colors.

[redmage777]

I kind of like the uniformity of the white Apple look. Everything is iWhite. It's cool.

Think Different, Build it yourself...

Steve Jobs- "Mac users, FALL IN!" (Walks down the line of iWhite product.)

SJ- "Is that a scuf mark on your ibook? show some respect."

Mac User- "Yes Sir, Sorry Sir."

SJ-(Continues walking down the line.) "Whats this? a Functinal mouse!? In apple we don't put function before beauty... Use the mighty mouse you were issued."

Mac Convert- "But the stupid thing is a pain in the a-"

SJ- "Silence, you are making apple look bad." (continues walking.)

Mac Modder- "Hmm... Hmm... Hmm..."

SJ- "What the... What is... THAT!?"

Mac Modder- "I call it the 'MiBook."

SJ- "Why don't you just go back to windows..."

[Warlock]

Wrong, the NES came in White with that toploader revision in 1993, plus count the japanese versions and it came in red, black, and blue I think. The Sharp Twin famis had atleast 3 colors.

Yeah but the toploader didn't come until the end of the NES' lifespan. But that is besides the point. Wii will most certainly come in more colors *eventually*. But like NES (his example), it only *launched* with one.

Anyways, you guys are missing the point I was making. I said iPod because that's why the Wii is white. Glossy White = the new Black, at least for technological gizmos. iPod started the thing, others are now copying. Glossy White is like an indication that this is an "iPod-like gadget". It's an association with the iPod-type devices that Nintendo is looking for - trendy, popular, innovative/"high tech", etc. This is why they went glossy white. It's about the system's image. It says "this is modern tech" to consumers.

Do I think white is better? No, personally I'd rather have black. But you have to think of it from a marketing perspective to see why Nintendo went this way. Whether or not it worked, who knows, but it certainly didn't *not* work, considering the thing is selling like crazy.

Either way, I think we can all agree - this beats the PANTS off Purple.

[The_Amaster]

My iPod is a second gen nano with a brushed steel look. And my friends and I have decided: If you want to do things like run a buisness and make spreadsheets and regulate some white collar guys, buy a PC, which is easy to network and handels basic menial tasks better. If your artistic, or creative, or stuff like that and want raw processing power, and all the really good programs and stuff, buy a Mac. Seriously, I've tried Photoshop on both a Mac and a PC. It just handles better on the Mac.(Yes, both computers had similar specs.)

[DarkDragon]

If you want to do things like run a buisness and make spreadsheets and regulate some white collar guys, buy a PC, which is easy to network and handels basic menial tasks better.
Or you're a programmer, and want more control over the machine than is offered by Apple's toy.

[Warlock]

My iPod is a second gen nano with a brushed steel look. And my friends and I have decided: If you want to do things like run a buisness and make spreadsheets and regulate some white collar guys, buy a PC, which is easy to network and handels basic menial tasks better. If your artistic, or creative, or stuff like that and want raw processing power, and all the really good programs and stuff, buy a Mac. Seriously, I've tried Photoshop on both a Mac and a PC. It just handles better on the Mac.(Yes, both computers had similar specs.)

Bah, Mac fanboy talk. I have nothing against the product, but the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" crap and all associated fanboy-ness in that regard is so rediculously stupid.

Put it this way - if you want to play *games*, buy a PC because they rarely get released cross-platform.

Everything else - it's the same either way. The Photoshop comment - sure it runs better on a Mac because Mac was produced as a graphics-friendly machine. In fact, most graphics artists use Macintosh. But if you aren't a graphics artist - why do you care? It still *runs* on PC.

So yes, there are some perks to Macintosh. But there are also perks to PC. It just depends on how you want to use the thing.

[vegeta1215]

Never underestimate how much different colors can affect sales. Anyone remember the Gameboy Play it Loud! series? It was the same Gameboy with a new candy coating, and people ate it up. (that's just one example)

You guy all know where I stand on the Windows debate, so I won't say anything more, but the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads are hilarious.

[The_Amaster]

So yes, there are some perks to Macintosh. But there are also perks to PC. It just depends on how you want to use the thing.
Never said there werent. I said that PC's do some stuff better than Macs. Heck, I know networkings better, at Yearbook at my school, we have networked Macs, and the system is quite cumbersome.

[Orion]

Hm... one could just move this to a different forum and call it a Mac vs. PC debate now. And my two cents on it:

Yes, your PC might run the same graphics programs my Mac does, but my Mac does it, and everything else, without crashing, freezing, and losing any of my saved changes. I have not once had to restart a mac because it froze.

That, and Macs make my working process a lot easier, I have to jump through less hoops than I do on a PC.

But I agree, if you want any control of your hardware, buy a PC.

....
and to be on topic, I think Nintendo's taking an apple-esque approach is a good idea, but I have never been a fan of the colored consoles. I'm very glad they released the Wii in just white, because otherwise I would have given myself a headache trying to decide between black and white.

[Dechipher]

My philosophy is PC for gaming (which I rarely do) and Mac for Audio production (which I'm obviously more involved in.) Like Warlock said, games are usually for the PC only. Music software is usually for both, and combined with the "Plug and play almost anything" on the Mac, it's really powerful and useful. Also, as Orion said, the Mac rarely ever freezes.

[Warlock]

My philosophy is PC for gaming (which I rarely do) and Mac for Audio production (which I'm obviously more involved in.) Like Warlock said, games are usually for the PC only. Music software is usually for both, and combined with the "Plug and play almost anything" on the Mac, it's really powerful and useful. Also, as Orion said, the Mac rarely ever freezes.

Right exactly. Like I said, I have no problem with macs. The only problem I have is that Apple's advertising department and a lot of mac fans get a "holier-than-thou" attitude regarding their computer. Penny Arcade did a great comic about it way back when (which I can't find now)

[Kairyu]

My philosophy is PC for gaming (which I rarely do) and Mac for Audio production (which I'm obviously more involved in.) Like Warlock said, games are usually for the PC only. Music software is usually for both, and combined with the "Plug and play almost anything" on the Mac, it's really powerful and useful. Also, as Orion said, the Mac rarely ever freezes.
I can't remember the last time my Laptop froze, and I've yet to actually get a virus on it (the only times I ever came close, McAffe caught it and deleted it right out). Most of the time, computer problems are caused by someone doing something stupid. Since more people use PC's, and most of the people who use Macs have at least some knowledge about computers (otherwise they'd be too intimidated by a non-Windows interface), of course you'll hear more problems from PC users.

On topic: I don't like the white color as much as I would a black on the Wii... but you know what they need to do? Make a translucent console. You know, like that one Game Boy Pocket, or Game Boy Color games. That would be so awesome.

[vegeta1215]

Penny Arcade did a great comic about it way back when (which I can't find now)

Yeah, they had a lot of comics knocking Apple/Macs in the past. Things have changed lately though, as they've made several comics poking fun at themselves cause they like Apple/Macs so much now.