A suggestion regarding custom avatars [Archive]

Glenn the Great

01-24-2007, 11:50 PM

I have noticed that some of the newer members seem to be unhappy with the post requirement to use a custom avatar. Almost all forums these days allow custom avatars, and the lack of such a choice is a serious deterrent to new members.

I anticipate that someone will try to point out to me something along the lines of custom avatars being something that is meant to be earned after having been a member long enough to have shown the dedication to make many posts.

If you are one of those people about to say this to me, you will probably take interest in a brief history lesson of AGN's avatar system...

The 1000 post requirement was never intended to be a "trial of passage," or a reward for the veterans or any such thing.

When AGN Forums was created, it first used a primitive bulletin board system called UltimateBB. The old BBS that these forums used in AGN's early months had no user-friendly feature for custom avatars. Back then, if you wanted a custom avatar, an Administrator would have to manually write a special line of code into a field in the control panel for every member with one, in addition to having to manually upload the avatar onto the server space. Updating your custom avatar required getting the Admin's attention, while he manually uploaded your avatar and then manually edited your special line of code in the control panel.

It was for this reason that the 1000 post requirement was instated. Almost no one had this many posts, nor anywhere near it. The theory was that it would cut down on annoying requests to update an avatar. If you ever heard that the rule was intended to give you a sort of perk for your accomplisments in the community, then you were only told that because you didn't need to know the internal workings of the UBB control panel, and if you were one of most of the members on AGN back in 2000, you probably wouldn't have understood the internal workings of said control panel.

I know all of this because I was personally bothered to update peoples' avatars on hundreds of occasions until we switched over to vBulletin.

My point is that the system is obsolete, and consideration should be put toward allowing custom avatars for all members.

For the conservatives, I offer a compromise plan. If it is important that an avatar-related award be issued for those who complete a large number of posts, perhaps they can opt to have a higher resolution avatar, preferably one that has the same width constraints, but taller height constraints.

Kairyu

01-24-2007, 11:56 PM

I think they're using it as a money maker right now. THe only way to get an animated avatar is to pay for one.

Glenn the Great

01-24-2007, 11:57 PM

Give me a break. Only a complete fucking moron is going to pay for an animated avatar.

biggiy05

01-25-2007, 12:17 AM

Sute

01-25-2007, 12:26 AM

It doesn't bother me too much, though it would be awesome to customize my avatar, but I really don't have a problem working up to 1,000 posts to earn it.

MasterSwordUltima

01-25-2007, 12:30 AM

Personally, I think the 1000 posts is good stuff. I see no reason why it should be changed. It basically helps to see who is new, and who really wants one.

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 12:33 AM

I didn't even bother reading past the first sentence.

Changing the requirements has been discussed a few times. If it gets changed it gets changed. Nobody is complaining about the post count. There have been a few questions about avatars but that's it.

Another way to get a custom avatar if you don't have 1,000 posts is to buy a premium membership. It also gives you the search function.

If you don't like how AGN is run then leave Glenn.

Aren't you so cool and badass, Mr. "I only read your first sentence."

Speaking of leaving AGN, that is exactly what more and more people are going to do. One after another, they will cease to post, and then leave.

This is already happening. Have you noticed the crazy activity on the forums over the past few weeks and months?

Are you getting together in your board meeting and saying....

Admin1: "What are we going to do???!! No one is posting and it is so boring!"

Admin2: "The solution is simple. Capital == Success. Let's charge our members to use simple features that every other forum offers for free! We'll price it high, and probability states that some idiot will buy into it. The money we receive will do the work for us in making things prosperous!"

LesserStaff1: "You are such a genius. I want to have buttsecks with you and have your baby."

LesserStaff2: {quote}"You are such a genius."{/quote} QFT

Admin1: "And before you leave, remember, if anyone says anything in General Discussion, just tell them to shut the fuck up or get out or some crazy shit like that. We'll be fine without anyone's input."

Admin2: "Let's get drunk and play some poker."

{DSG}DarkRaven

01-25-2007, 12:58 AM

Ahem. I'm going to be a jerk and immitate Glenn for a moment.

(in squeaky voice)

Gather around, children! Gather, for I am going to tell you a tale. Long ago, in the early ages of the forums, things were not as simple as they are now. We had to log on in the middle of the night through a Tiwanese server in order to post a thread, all the while praying that the screeching lullabye of the modem wouldn't wake up the adults. We could only post in pig latin, and nobody understood how things worked except for me! But most troublesome of all, there was the dreaded thousand post rule.

Sit up, now! Pay attention to an old man while he waxes nostalgic about the glory days of old! Listen as I tell you about the origins of custom avatars, something you young folk take for granted. Every member required a special line of code in their console to enable them. This was a tedious task, and the AGN wizards decided at once to use their magics and create the thousand post rule! It was an impossible number to achieve at the time, and for a time, there was peace in the land...

</glenn>

Seriously, man. The thousand post rule kept me coming back, and gave me a goal to strive for. I got lucky and got a custom avatar by becoming a ZC beta tester, but the custom title to go with it completed the package. Making people hit a thousand on the post counter helps them remember that they're newbies, and for people who're worth keeping around, that's a good thing. Most newbs on other forums walk in, set up their custom avatar and title on their first post and think they own the place.

Warlord will do whatever the heck he wants, and if he wanted to get rid of the rule, he'd have done so when the forums were upgraded to the point where it was no longer necessary.

Mitsukara

01-25-2007, 03:06 AM

The thousand post rule is dumb, it should be a much lower number like 100, to ensure that the only people using it are "real" members. And even if I had the money and the freedom to do so, I really don't feel like paying any money towards AGN at this point, especially not so I can have an animated GIF in my honor and a little picture under my name for one year. The only real reason to donate to AGN is to donate to AGN and I'm no longer interested enough.

Regardless of how he makes it or whatever, Glenn has a point... people are leaving AGN and have been for some time. It's not just because of the avatars of course. IMO people are leaving AGN because it's not a friendly community (as demonstrated here among many other places) and it has no real virtues to support itself anymore. Anyone cool here hangs out somewhere else too by now. Which says something else about the place.

*shrugs*

P.S. that characterization of Glenn sounds cool :X Someone should seriously talk like that all the time.

goKi

01-25-2007, 03:46 AM

Glenn, once again, a valid argument ruined by your pathetic attitude. You need some serious people skills, man.

Skulkraken

01-25-2007, 05:26 AM

To me, at least, the relatively low population here is caused by the same thing that causes MMOs like Auto Assault to have low numbers of members: a lack of members. Basically, it's not so much any of the rules or specific members that drives people away; they simply want to hang out where people are *already* hanging out.

Nicholas Steel

01-25-2007, 05:52 AM

i seriously doubt changing this will have a huge impact on who stays... its a freakin image... who the hell cares? its just something to achieve... something to keep people coming back... it isn't going to kill them if they don't get a custom avatar within the first 5 minutes of completing registration.

{DSG}DarkRaven

01-25-2007, 07:55 AM

I agree with Franpa, if there's anything wrong with AGN, it sure as heck isn't the 1000 post rule for custom titles and avatars. If you ask me, the problem is that we don't really offer anything, whereas in the past there were several games that people could at least discuss, even if they weren't being released or updated, etc. These days, all we really have is ZC, and there are other ZC fansites out there, which means we are no longer the exclusive ZC forum.

I certainly don't go anywhere else for my forum fix these days, but then again, I'm not really a forum freak who has to have his opinions made known by everyone and their cat.

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 08:33 AM

I agree that the avatars aren't the main problem. If you ask me, the main problem is that the people here who make AGN worth reading are always the first to be banned. Seriously, this is now a very tiny community. It doesn't need to be moderated like it is SteamPowered Forums. If the staff would learn to be a little bit more thick-skinned, instead of banning our most colorful and interesting posters at the slightest insult or jab, morale might go up. I think that a more informal attitude around this place could be very beneficial, and a more liberal avatar policy is just a very small part of the general kind of movement that needs to be seen here.

Darth Marsden

01-25-2007, 10:07 AM

koopa

01-25-2007, 01:02 PM

I can so far agree with Glenn as that, all the bitching aside, 1000 might be a bit high - but I could second his second post by saying only a moron is going to join/leave a forum alone because of the ability to have custom avatars.
It is true that with the current amount of activity 1000 quality posts might take a lot longer than it used to - I doubt that that lack of activity is due to people not being able to have custom avatars though, or that allowing them would bring any more activity here. In that sense I second DSG and Jennifer too.
And now for something completely different: why not lower it to 500? [/obviousattemptatcompromise]

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 01:24 PM

Hey! If you go changing that there 1000 post rule, I'm gonna be wicked mad. I worked freakin' hard to earn the right to customize my look, and I'll be pickled in a jar of ketchup if I'm gonna let that accomplishment be reduced to nothing by a desire to bring in a bunch of ASBO carrying yobs. We're fine as is. Just let it be.

[/drunk]

Thus speaketh the veteran for whom this doth not concern.

Wouldn't it make you pretty happy though to have a taller avatar? The new people won't have that.

Also, is there something enjoyable about seeing all of the new people have the same old generic avatars that we've all seen, time and time again?

People come up with some great avatars sometimes. I think it would increase the enjoyability for all members. I believe that the time a member spends thinking on what his AGN avatar should be will ingrain in his mind some sort of extra sense of attachment. I'm really not sure what you have to lose by letting them have their custom avatar.

I'm sensing opposition to a change in the avatar policy, so I deduce that it has something to do with the established having an inner desire to display superiority over others. Do you think that mentality helps the community?

(Posted by Skullkraken): To me, at least, the relatively low population here is caused by the same thing that causes MMOs like Auto Assault to have low numbers of members: a lack of members. Basically, it's not so much any of the rules or specific members that drives people away; they simply want to hang out where people are *already* hanging out.
This would be rational if AGN always had a low number of members. For a long time, this place had an incredibly high number of members. As the member count went up, growth increased rapidly. The member count has seriously deteriorated. It obviously has nothing to do with the amount of members. Something else is at work here.

(Posted by MasterSwordUltima): Personally, I think the 1000 posts is good stuff. I see no reason why it should be changed. It basically helps to see who is new, and who really wants one.
I'm not really sure how much help the Join Date field really needs in that department. Usually the people who "really want an avatar" will spam their way to 1000. Do you think that really helps the community?

(Posted by Darth Marsden): Hey! If you go changing that there 1000 post rule, I'm gonna be wicked mad. I worked freakin' hard to earn the right to customize my look, and I'll be pickled in a jar of ketchup if I'm gonna let that accomplishment be reduced to nothing by a desire to bring in a bunch of ASBO carrying yobs.

I don't really think it would be that great of a difference if your accomplishment were reduced to nothing from what it is now.

War Lord

01-25-2007, 02:19 PM

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 03:32 PM

I thought there were no restrictions on them anymore after the discussion in the staff forum a month or two back. At the very least I was sure the limit was much less than 1000.

Something to double check later this evening I suppose, though I'm sure it was taken care of previously.

If it happens to be that this was already done, then it would be a good idea to try to announce things like this in the future. That's what your announcements forum is for. It only takes less than 5 minutes; the poker game can wait.

Kairyu

01-25-2007, 04:08 PM

I'm sensing opposition to a change in the avatar policy, so I deduce that it has something to do with the established having an inner desire to display superiority over others. Do you think that mentality helps the community?

Probably not. Doesn't seem to be doing much for you, anyway.

Seriously, though, I wasn't aware of any changes to the Av system since you needed to start paying to get an animated avatar. I wasn't exactly searching, but I'd have expected it to show up somewhere.

Edit: Wait, is the premium membership stuff still even in effect? Wasn't there some kind of symbol next to people's names if they were premium?

elise

01-25-2007, 04:43 PM

Edit: Wait, is the premium membership stuff still even in effect? Wasn't there some kind of symbol next to people's names if they were premium?
yeppe a turning coin

ShadowTiger

01-25-2007, 05:27 PM

Which skin are you guys on? It's no showing for me in the dark/blue skin. I'm sure I've seen it on the default white skin though. Indeed, many hacks are skin dependent like that.

elise

01-25-2007, 05:35 PM

They also work in the dark skin there are just not that many around ( look for a posting from Erm he has one )

The_Amaster

01-25-2007, 05:47 PM

You know, this place may not be super active, but we are more active then a lot of places. Heck, on one of the official forums for a bestselling bokkseries, theres usually around 5-6 posta A DAY. We often get that an hour. And I think a release of ZC 2.5 could be a godsend, much like the floods after 1.9.

And yeah, 500 posts shows your dedicated, but don't have to wait forever.

Nicholas Steel

01-25-2007, 06:17 PM

if anything 750 posts would be a compromise koopa :) i was trying to reach 1000 posts and by the time i made about 300 i gave up on reaching it... my post quality im sure improved a fair bit then.... and now i have reached it :D but i don't use custom avatars much at all -.-' (i prefer people judging me entirely on what i wright and not be distracted by an avatar)

if you remove it you remove the need to improve posts.... im sure i was forced to improve my post quality or else my posts would get deleted or i would get banned..... thus only good came from having that limit in my opinion.

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 08:30 PM

You know, this place may not be super active, but we are more active then a lot of places. Heck, on one of the official forums for a bestselling bokkseries, theres usually around 5-6 posta A DAY. We often get that an hour.

That really isn't a very strong comparison to be making. Of course we are going to be more active than most places, because 90%+ (probably higher) of the forums on the Internet are dormant failures that get extremely low activity. Most forums are started by copycats who are inspired to emulate the success of another forum. How many times have you seen idiots on these forums make their own forum that isn't really about anything, and then they go around asking everyone to join? You have a look at their forums, and they never get more than 5 members. That right there is your "a lot of places".

Forum enthusiasts expect much more. I personally expect more out of this place because in its heyday it was not uncommon to see over 100 posts being made here every minute. I could point out a number of critical things that started happening at different times to start and help this trend of deterioration, but if I started discussing them, I'd run the risk of getting banned again.

biggiy05

01-25-2007, 08:30 PM

If it happens to be that this was already done, then it would be a good idea to try to announce things like this in the future. That's what your announcements forum is for. It only takes less than 5 minutes; the poker game can wait.

Why do you care about a forum you don't own, run, moderate, or post in but on rare occasion when you aren't banned? You tried to take it down because you never got your way.

Maybe you should find something else to do....maybe a life outside of the internet?

Glenn the Great

01-25-2007, 08:35 PM

Why do you care about a forum you don't own, run, moderate, or post in but on rare occasion when you aren't banned? You tried to take it down because you never got your way.

To be honest, I have an attachment to this place because it was the first forum I ever participated on, and I invested hundreds of hours into improving and maintaining this place when I used to work here. Every time I come here, I still see work that I personally did many years ago still standing. Even the current descriptions of some of the forums were my handiwork.

ShadowTiger

01-25-2007, 08:40 PM

Why do you care about a forum you don't own, run, moderate, or post in but on rare occasion when you aren't banned? You tried to take it down because you never got your way.

Maybe you should find something else to do....maybe a life outside of the internet?

With or without Glenn's presence, this is entirely the wrong attitude to take about a community, online or offline. ... (Though I do certainly apologize for any tone in my post.) You can still maintain a certain level of faith and trust in your community akin to that which you would show to and from your closer friends. I for one was far too eager to come back to AGN after a long day at school and such. It's not an uncommon attitude to take at all.

You also have a life outside of the internet. (Right?) You still post though, and if you don't care about AGN, there aren't many alternative for having made this post at all.

Regardless of the motivations, if people still care about a community, the last thing you want to do is shoot them down. If it's keeping it alive, go with the flow. We all know that War Lord is a very responsible owner. There's never been any doubt about that, as far as I could ever tell. O.o

EDIT: Whoops, simultaneous post. ... ... Eh, whatever.

The_Amaster

01-25-2007, 11:19 PM

I cartainly feel an attachment here, possibly because it's the first forum I've ever really established myself in and reached more than 50 posts. Which in turn ties back to the fact that were much more active than a lot of the forums on a net, and theres more of a "conversation" feel to stuff than "I post, and 6 hours later he posts, and then 5 hours later I post again", and I don't know why, but people seem to have more personality on this forum than on others. People are just more memorable, and have more defined attitudes.

Interestingly enough, although the 1000 post avatar thing frustrates me, it has pushed me to post more than I usually would.

AtmaWeapon

01-26-2007, 01:21 AM

Guys guys GUYS

guys

It's the internet calm down take a deep breath. There's a lot of jumping on the "hey it's Glenn let's disagree with him this will be awesome 0/\0" bandwagon but he makes some rather valid points. The forums are, for all intents and purposes, stagnant. Personally I think part of the problem is the members we love to ban so much are the colorful personalities that make the forum life cool; perhaps in lulling times a bit of relaxation on the rules would be in order.

I don't really care about the custom avatars either way but I do agree the best policy is to probably put the post milestone somewhere achievable with about 3 months of moderate activity posting. At one point in our forums' history it was pretty feasible for a user to make 45-50 posts per day and I argued for the 1,000 post milestone since the chatty group of newbies at the time was able to rocket to custom avatars over the course of their first month or so. Now it seems to me that the most dedicated of posters can attain maybe 4-5 posts per day (and that is if you take the risk of starting a thread) and I think a 500 post limit is more appropriate. For those of you guys talking about the 'effort' and 'work' you made for 1,000 posts, please consider the effort is stored as a series of magnetic pulses on a metal platter and all of your 'effort' and 'work' is subject to deletion if whoever it is that runs the site these days decides to pull the plug. Please. If the avatar was the reason you made all 1,000 of your posts then you are on the forums for all the wrong reasons; didn't you make any friends?

Take a look at the Member Pages (http://www.atmaweapon.org/secret/) PHP pet project I started and never really finished about 3 semesters ago. As I entered each member, I compiled a list of the members who I honestly couldn't recall seeing for months and it was something like 60% of the user group. Where did these guys go? Most of them were several thousands of posts deep in AGN; surely they didn't just pack up their stuff and decide to leave one day? A lot of them were eliminated in big time forums drama but I seriously don't know where a lot of our coolest members went.

So really honestly I think Glenn is acting out of legitimate concern for these forums and at the same time I think no one can really say what is leading to this period of stagnation. Maybe another ZC release will save the day, but I don't know.

Dragon Omega

01-26-2007, 01:38 AM

I don't think the forums have gone quite stagnant yet. Some areas of the forums are still getting quite a bit of action, while others have slowed down a tad. The answer to this, I don't know. Maybe some of the members had things to take care of in their real lives. Maybe they just got tired of it and decided to never come back. What ever their reasons, all we can really do is continue posting as we are now. Changing the avatar limits or what not probably won't help much, if at all. :mischief:

DarkDragon

01-26-2007, 08:19 AM

In my opinion, AGN is more stagnant these days for several reasons:

1) Maturation of the initial core members.
At least in its middle years, when I joined, the active members consisted of some core, older members, who were frequently staff or friends of the staff, and younger groupies. As the years rolled by the older members graduated high school and then college, got lives, and found they had little time left for an online gaming forum. War Lord is semi-retired. Shadowblazer, who would devote a lot of time to installing all kinds of special forum hacks, moved on. Most of the rest of the senior staff is much less active than before. Projects that were previously maintained with great energy now lie abandoned: the above-mentioned member pages, the superlatives, anime girl of the day, etc. The younger members either scattered or themselves matured and became interesting and active members, but as a whole never seemed to fill the shoes of the retired members in terms of energy and initiative. Maybe there's a bigger rift between the members and the staff, the newbies and the old; maybe, not having been there during the community's youth, they feel less attached to and invested in it. I don't know.

2) Success of the staff at maintaining order.
The upper staff has, in recent years, finally succeeded at establishing and maintaining order among the established members. There is no staff infighting, and certainly not in public; rules in the forums are enforced efficiently. And paradoxically, with the establishment of order, forum interest diminished.
Human nature is fascinated by the spectacle. As evidence, look to the public executions, to the Counter-Reformation's attempt to draw people back to religion by embellishing church ceremonies, to the way news, or even the weather, is presented on TV. It is thus not surprising that, several years ago, the interest of the AGN forums came from, very roughly
30% ZC
10% Gaming discussion
10% Miscellaneous discussion
50% Forum melodrama.
Forum drama not only gave people reasons to stay active on the forums, to keep up with the antics of DC, Nightmare, BigJoe, or whoever had blown a fuse that week, but also allowed members, by rooting for and defending their favorite staff member, or providing banal commentary, to become emotionally invested here. Personalities shone through the dozen lines of text and thumb-sized avatars in a way not possible during dry discussion of the latest movie, game, or internet fad. As evidence, go read the archives, in particular DC's "leaked beta" or Breaker's "Sign's [sic] you are a newbie" threads: they are priceless classics, even today, and though there was flaming everywhere, the community was having fun, and felt alive.

That's my two cent analysis, in any case. Most importantly, AGN is very active in what I consider its most important function, serving as a central point for ZC testing, development, and discussion.

EDIT: I just went to look in the forum archives and there are no threads there anymore, besides the picture post. WTF? What's the point of having an archive, and then pruning its threads?

elise

01-26-2007, 09:25 AM

That's my two cent analysis, in any case. Most importantly, AGN is very active in what I consider its most important function, serving as a central point for ZC testing, development, and discussion.

But even there with the questdatabase already down for almost a year questmakers and questplayers are forced to go to other boards to release the new quests and for players to get it .:shrug:

Glenn the Great

01-26-2007, 09:43 AM

2) Success of the staff at maintaining order.
The upper staff has, in recent years, finally succeeded at establishing and maintaining order among the established members. There is no staff infighting, and certainly not in public; rules in the forums are enforced efficiently. And paradoxically, with the establishment of order, forum interest diminished.
Human nature is fascinated by the spectacle. As evidence, look to the public executions, to the Counter-Reformation's attempt to draw people back to religion by embellishing church ceremonies, to the way news, or even the weather, is presented on TV. It is thus not surprising that, several years ago, the interest of the AGN forums came from, very roughly
30% ZC
10% Gaming discussion
10% Miscellaneous discussion
50% Forum melodrama.
Forum drama not only gave people reasons to stay active on the forums, to keep up with the antics of DC, Nightmare, BigJoe, or whoever had blown a fuse that week, but also allowed members, by rooting for and defending their favorite staff member, or providing banal commentary, to become emotionally invested here. Personalities shone through the dozen lines of text and thumb-sized avatars in a way not possible during dry discussion of the latest movie, game, or internet fad. As evidence, go read the archives, in particular DC's "leaked beta" or Breaker's "Sign's [sic] you are a newbie" threads: they are priceless classics, even today, and though there was flaming everywhere, the community was having fun, and felt alive.

I agree with you 100% on this point. I have always been a strong advocate of a healthy amount of drama. I understand there is a such thing as too much drama, but there is a balance that must be maintained, or else a community simply loses its flavor.

One recent example of the staff going too far that I could point out, just so we know what we are talking about, is when Beldaran returned to the forums. Beldaran is without a doubt one of the more interesting people here. His posts are very fun to read. Breaker made a rather minor flame towards one of the members in a thread here in GD, and Beldaran gave him a little warning for flaming in sort of a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. It was pretty funny and cute. Unfortunately, a few moments later, Beldaran found himself "Perma-Banned" again, and things went back to their normal dullness. I personally find this simply ridiculous.

ShadowTiger

01-26-2007, 11:35 AM

The forum drama is a very important part of the forum structure. Let's recap the above mentioned points in a twofold set:

1) Beldaran is banned. He cannot post. He cannot post to spark activity nor continue it. He always made not only some very interesting posts, but a lot of them. Why? That's nobody's concern of his own, but damnit, he contributed, and he contributed often, and I'm sure you can tolerate one or two assholisms to allow a forum to continue to thrive. It doesn't matter if "One member won't make a difference." The more activity that you have, the better, and honestly, at this stage of AGN's low-activity phase, you need every. single. member, actively and happily participating so GD at least doesn't take that final dive into total boredom and just move on. (To chat, possibly. I'd like to see that. ^ ^.)

2) Drama is, again, a rather large factor in a forum's life. The more CONTAINED drama there is, the more people are willing to watch it and stay for the show as well as the intermission. I make everybody popcorn, and they gossip about everything from the drama to their underwear (Whatever) while things are simmering down. It's a good setup. Considering how everything seems to be "More mature," and, hopefully, more self aware, I (As in, not you.) wouldn't mind seeing GB brought back, though under more of a carefully watched setting so as not to see someone commenting and not flaming to not get flamed back for not having flamed at all. Again, just because you're stepping into GB doesn't mean you need to flame nor be flamed. Just because you're in GB doesn't mean the forum has magically sucked all sense of common decency from you.

... ... and man, the staff need to post more. Just a little confirmation here and there that "Hey there. I care about you. I'm just not here that often to show it because I have a life, but I still do care about the forums. Really." Having inactive staff is just ... ... awkward. ._o Probably moreso because all of that "Hey, I'm still here" stuff only takes place behind the members' backs in the private forums where the members can't see to confirm their ever-watchful presence on the forums.

This post was made with love.

ZTC

01-26-2007, 12:53 PM

For the 1k posts thing, that was a personal goal for me that had me keep coming back. I still come back to this place because there's interesting discussions to be had. And speaking of avatars, I remember back when it was UBB and there was a number of Sonic & Knuckles avatars, I still miss those (that and the drama from GB)

(edit) who unbanned Glenn again?

mrz84

01-26-2007, 02:08 PM

1000 posts doesn't seem that big of a deal to some people, but then again, some of the new guys/gals who join the forum may be daunted by the task of gaining 1k posts so they can get a custom av/title. I didn't really care for it, but I made that many posts anyway when I joined back in my high school years. I think I made my 1k in about 2-3 months time. Meh. As long as people post in moderation, then they can get their 1000 posts and get a custom av. Moving on...

As for the forums not getting enough activity, I'd have to disagree. This place has enough foot traffic here to keep it going for awhile now. Personally though, I think some of the staff should post more often. It gives ya a warm tingly feeling inside, knowing that someone cares. :kitty:

Another thing. Drama is good. Life is boring and too short, so spice it up. :kawaii: And though I don't ever recall posting in GB, it would be nice to see it again, even if it was put into another area like MPQ or Anime was into FG and GED (respectivly) were. :kitty:

MasterSwordUltima

01-27-2007, 01:52 AM

So waitaminute...

I'm paying for my animated avatar?
When did this happen?

biggiy05

01-27-2007, 02:22 AM

So waitaminute...

I'm paying for my animated avatar?
When did this happen?

No you aren't paying for your avatar.

A premimum membership is available to anyone. If you buy a premium membership and you don't have 1,000 posts it allows you a custom avatar.

Questwizard88

01-27-2007, 02:24 AM

Not sure when that ever happened, but I have heard about it.

I worked REALLY hard to hit 1,000 posts, and it practically took forever to hit. After all, this WAS the first forum I had ever visited in my entire life, back when I was 13. I still remember the crappy avatar I put up the instant I hit 1,000 like a couple years ago. It showed the LttP Link in the middle of a (kind of) lifelike forest with fog. To me, it was a bit high, and I would agree with lowering it a bit. Making the goal so high is like encouraging spammers to come right in if they want custom avatars or a custom title. They'd basically have three choices:

Become a moderator, admin, developer, or tester.
Get a Premium membership
Make 1,000 posts.

I would definitely go for lowering it down to about at least 750 if it hasn't already been lowered.

MasterSwordUltima

01-27-2007, 03:07 AM

I doubt that anyone would spam 1000 posts. Spamming 50 takes a good few minutes, and after that, most would get bored and figure it not worth it.

Glenn the Great

01-27-2007, 03:53 AM

I doubt that anyone would spam 1000 posts. Spamming 50 takes a good few minutes, and after that, most would get bored and figure it not worth it.

For someone who has been here since 2001, you should know better than this. It just doesn't happen nowadays since its hard to mask your spam when there is so little activity going on at the same time.

MasterSwordUltima

01-27-2007, 04:31 AM

Nicholas Steel

01-27-2007, 04:35 AM

AND when they delete the spam your post count just goes back down.

Glenn the Great

01-27-2007, 10:04 AM

Be reasonable Glenn. Would you honestly sit before a computer, typing some bullshit, then clicking the POST button, then waiting for it to send, then clicking on the NEW REPLY button, typing some more bullshit, click the POST button, wait for it to send again...one thousand times? Has anyone actually completely spammed their way to 1000? I highly doubt that.

Doubt it all you want. Countless times during AGN's most active years has some new idiot appeared, and started posting total crap, and in 3 weeks people would start pointing out how that member already has his 1000 posts. Haven't you ever wondered why I made it so that posts in the Forum Games forum don't count toward your post count? That was where a large part of the problem was, because it was very easy to get away with spamming that forum. Frankly, I don't see why it surprises you so much that people on the Internet would do such a thing.

AND when they delete the spam your post count just goes back down.

That would be true if spam were actually deleted. Rather, it has been the policy here for the majority of AGN's existence for nothing to be deleted under any circumstance (other than just pruning old stuff) so there will be some record of what has happened.

Breaker

01-27-2007, 11:12 AM

1) Beldaran is banned. He cannot post. He cannot post to spark activity nor continue it.

No he isn't. He and Glenn (obviously) were unbanned awhile ago. Infact, the only people on the ban list right now are spammers. When somebody gets banned, it rarely lasts longer than a few weeks (except in Glenn's case). I just never make an attempt to let them know when it's been lifted.

They gotta figure that out for themselves.

Archibaldo

01-27-2007, 04:01 PM

1000 post limit is fine, if that's the only thing that the new members want out of this forum, screw 'em. They won't be very productive. The 1000 post limit is to weed out the week.

I do think it's about time to bring GB back. That place always had some fun readings. I think most members like watching debates between brave/stupid members making/arguing a point.

ZTC

01-29-2007, 11:47 AM

I doubt that anyone would spam 1000 posts. Spamming 50 takes a good few minutes, and after that, most would get bored and figure it not worth it.
I don't know if it was all spam, but anybody remember SixTen? If I remember correctly, he got 1K posts within 2-3 months.

AlexMax

01-29-2007, 07:50 PM

I agree that the forums are kind of dying, but personally I haven't been hanging around too much because the content just isn't here anymore. Zelda Classic is old news, and the drama that formally kept us entertained left when various longtime members got banned, and seeing the same clingy people keep coming back gets old after the first ten times it happens (seriously Glenn what the fuck is wrong with you?). And many of the people in the former cliques have grown up and have moved on.

After I got to college and subsquently got involved in more real life social things, and the SomethingAwful and Doomworld communities covering my online time, I didn't really feel the need to hang around here, and for fun decided to see how much trolling I could get away with before I got banned. After I got banned, I left quietly and didn't even think about AGN for months. Because really, what does this place have to offer except memories of glory days long past? Nowadays I drop in every so often just to see if there is something worth replying to, but all I find are five topics about Zelda in General Games, and some random shit in General Discussion.

It's not even necissarily a bad thing either, it's just that without some sort of stable base and something to attract new members to stick around, all communities die out after a time.

MasterSwordUltima

01-29-2007, 08:44 PM

I don't know if it was all spam, but anybody remember SixTen? If I remember correctly, he got 1K posts within 2-3 months.

Months. Bam. Took MONTHS!

The_Amaster

01-29-2007, 08:47 PM

Masamune

01-29-2007, 10:11 PM

Brasel

01-29-2007, 11:03 PM

Shit's a lot different now from back in 2001 when I first joined. A lot of mainstream members who I guess helped add identity to the community are gone. (Flashman, Menokh, DarthCronic(LordCronic), GuitarManTim, Kenage, JJ, Foxy, TSA, etc.). People were friendlier for the most part too. I look back at this forum every now and then and see less people I know, and more that are new to me. It's not a bad thing, but these new members just seem to come with an aura of negativity. The old members who used to identify the community for me are, gone. And the new members that identify AGN with are either complete fucking jackasses or kiss asses spewing their obnoxious bullshit.

I agree with a lot of that. However, there are some cool newer members here and there that I've noticed over the past year that stand out on their own in one way or another that keeps me interested in the boards. I'm not a very active poster anymore, but I still read just about everything that goes on around here, and I still find that there are some members that have good stuff to read every now and then. I'm just sad to see that there isn't nearly as much content as there used to be. I'd add to it, but I'm terrible with words and with people skills and what not.

MasterSwordUltima

01-29-2007, 11:17 PM

Yeah, I've been active here for a couple of YEARS, and I havent even breached the 500 mark. And believe me, I post at EVERY oppertunity I get.

Kinda a moot point on the Avatars tho, now that WL has enabled them for all.

2005 isn't years.

Also, Masamune, I remember all of those people. I liked TSA a lot, and Cyclone too. JJ Maxx used to be a GM for SE too. GuitarManTim was hip too. Jeez.

Kairyu

01-29-2007, 11:23 PM

2005 isn't years.
Yes it is. Two of them, technically.

Whatever happened to Gannonator and Project Seven, anyway?

biggiy05

01-29-2007, 11:34 PM

Yes it is. Two of them, technically.

Whatever happened to Gannonator and Project Seven, anyway?

Ganonator hasn't logged in since May of 06. If I remember correctly he doesn't plan on returning.

Sute

01-30-2007, 12:21 AM

"years" is more of a +3 term. If a Kindergarten kid graduates to second grade, doesn't seem right if the mom says that child has been going to school for years, y'know? Oh, silly analogies.

As for custom avatars, I love it! :D I wasn't expecting this to be passed.

MasterSwordUltima

01-30-2007, 12:23 AM

Yes it is. Two of them, technically.

Whatever happened to Gannonator and Project Seven, anyway?

No, it's not even two years. December 2005 - January 2007, barely over 1. Thats not, YEARS.

Kairyu

01-30-2007, 12:43 AM

Yes, but you didn't mention the months.
I still kinda remember TSA's farewell, but that was hardly unexpected or unannounced. I think Cyclone left over some kind of drama, but it was a long time ago.

As far as I know, Flash Man and Cronic still post once in a while.

MasterSwordUltima

01-30-2007, 12:56 AM

Its not hard to look at their join date above their post. :p

I remember Cronic made a nice Zelda/Metal Gear Solid combo ZC quest. That was quite rad.

Kairyu

01-30-2007, 01:02 AM

It's not, but it never actually entered the discussion.
Did he actually finish that quest(s)? I remember he had some ambitious plans for it.

I don't see Plith anymore either, but I think he just went to one of the other ZC websites like Cyclone.

Dechipher

01-30-2007, 02:06 AM

Project 7 I don't think is going to happen.

However. Shattered Earth is.
I would just like to point out that Shattered Earth is doing quite nicely, developmentally, and could bring new life in.

Also, maybe ZC is old news to people who've been here for 6 years, but there are always new people to discover stuff.

phattonez

01-30-2007, 02:19 AM

I guess if we're turning this into a history lesson, I might as well show what AGN looked like when I joined during the summer of '03.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030403082152/http://armageddongames.net/

And my first post.

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73737

A lot has changed, but I've become a lot less active recently, and I don't know how everything's been around here lately. All I can say was that at the beginning, my post per day count was around 16, and I don't even want to look at where it is now.

Glenn the Great

01-30-2007, 08:36 AM

As for custom avatars, I love it! :D I wasn't expecting this to be passed.

I really thought you would enjoy it.

Chibidia

01-30-2007, 09:02 PM

Hmmm... well, most of the AGN community seems pretty responsible and intelligent (except for that day or two following a ZC release ;) ), but allot of forums restrict custom av's to new members and what-not for good reasons. One being that many newbies tend to use heavy gif animated avatars that take hella-forever to load and cause the article to drag a bit... and posted article pics to slow down... allot. I mean, me being a newbie... yeah, I think it's great I can have a custom avatar now, but remember what can happen. Setting a high post count usually insures that only trusted members who really respect the community upload small size avatars and such.

By the way, I'm a 56k user (caveman)... just so my plea makes more sense.

Starkist

01-30-2007, 09:25 PM

I feel old compared to all these kids here nowadays. You can probably count on one hand the members who came before me who still actively post.

Anyway, I suppose the wishes expressed here have been granted.

The_Amaster

01-30-2007, 09:57 PM

Starkist

01-30-2007, 10:12 PM

The nice part is that it seems that mostly the people who actually contribute to stuff and help people stick around, whereas the people who just show up and say "Heelppppppppppp!!!! Zelda classic wnt wark!!!!! What ma I oding wrong!!!!!!" stay for like no time at all. (Or occasionaly they actually learn to type, but it's not often)

I joined the forums to ask a Zelda Classic tech support question. (My typing and grammar were much better, at least.) Glenn actually answered the question...

Glenn the Great

01-30-2007, 11:09 PM

I joined the forums to ask a Zelda Classic tech support question. (My typing and grammar were much better, at least.) Glenn actually answered the question...

I've always been helpful like that, haven't I?

Seraphim Sniper

01-30-2007, 11:16 PM

I joined here because I am bored. If your that fixated on avatars you'll get bored fast.

Hmmm 1000 posts. Never gonna happen.

BTW- No one seems to have avatars is there a setting i've botched?

erm2003

01-30-2007, 11:30 PM

Go under your User CP and check your options. You probably have them turned off.

And custom avatars have been enabled now so have fun.

Seraphim Sniper

01-30-2007, 11:37 PM

Wow I feel accomplished.

Glitch

01-31-2007, 12:53 PM

I've always been helpful like that, haven't I?

ahahahahahahahahaahahhahahaahhaha

goKi

01-31-2007, 01:18 PM

Lose the ego. Please.

g.iaroos

01-31-2007, 06:58 PM

The nice part is that it seems that mostly the people who actually contribute to stuff and help people stick around, whereas the people who just show up and say "Heelppppppppppp!!!! Zelda classic wnt wark!!!!! What ma I oding wrong!!!!!!" stay for like no time at all. (Or occasionaly they actually learn to type, but it's not often)

Honnestly I never really understood why people were typing like this ... They get attention but on the negative side which only annoy users and tend to leave their questions unanswered because of that. I never ever typed like this on a forum, and I never felt to! What urge get people to do so??? It's all so senseless to me XD