Link stabbing

[blue_knight]

We need a way to adjust where Link stabs from. Here is a screenshot to illustrate what happens if you try stabbing with a large link (16x32 or 32x32):
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/blue_knight66/SwordProb.jpg

[beefster09]

Seconded. Needed even for me at some point.

[jman2050]

Thirded.

[Sephiroth]

Fourthed.

[*b*]

Depending on how it's executed, fifthed

[ShadowTiger]

Reminds me of *b*'s other topic (http://www.armageddongames.net/showthread.php?t=93068). Just a bit, ... but ... still.

Sixthed.

[The_Amaster]

Seventhed(This is getting rather silly)

[*b*]

I've just remembered I had an idea about this for some time, which I think now would be a good time to re/bring it up

Needless to say, this won't be in the next version, as it's rather complex. It's part of another idea I'm trying to work out, but here goes

A weapon position editor, or at least, a sword position editor. It would allow you to manually position where the sword appears for Link's attacks for both variations (stab and slash). It shows Link with a box around him to display the size of his sprite (in tiles). For slashing, you would edit the first three frames; Where the sword first appears, where the slash sprite appears, and where the final graphic appears before the pullback animation. For stabbing, you would simply edit where the sword appears

Naturally, the sword graphic would appear where you edit it to be, so you can proofcheck the look. Wherever the sword is, the hitbox, or ZC equivelant, would be placed there as well, and the sword beam, and pullback animations would also trigger where the sword was placed

How I'd imagine this to work is to have a system like the return point marker. You place a little icon where you want the sword to appear, and it is not limited to a grid. Sort of like how you place items in the subscreen editor... Okay, exactly like that. A drop-down box would allow you to select which direction to edit, and another would change the animation style (Slash/stab)

It would be very simple to use, but incredibly useful. Unless everyone uses a certain sprite, or conforms to a certain setup when using bigger Link sprites, this would be very helpful. AoL's Link has the sword appear much higher than LttP's Link, so a set animation change would limit either one, possibly both

I know this'd be a bitch to program, but it would be very helpful for using non-Link and varying Link sprites

If you actually read all that, thoughts? I know it's a bit long-winded, but that's what happens when I have an idea

[CJC]

*b*, I had an idea almost identical to yours, but I'm glad you posted it first (Your word choice and explanation were superb, far better than what I could have hoped to ramble off).


Basically, it'd be a subscreen-type editor for animation. The only hangup you might run into are the newer items with 20+ frames of animation (Like Din's Fire), or those that animate over the whole screen (Again, Din's Fire).


Still, I think this would be incredibly useful, especially as an added feature to the (hopefully) item editor. And having the hitbox placement be right under the 'item' placement is a fantastic idea too.


To further express my impression of this, I'll use an example
A quest maker wants to create a double-edged White Sword, one that slashes both forward and backward when used.
This quest maker opens the item editor for the White Sword and goes to Weapon Position Editor.
Adding another 'White Sword' entity, the quest maker flips it and positions it at Link's back, so that it is colinear with the original and stabbing in the opposite direction.
The Quest maker than goes to the pulldown menu and moves to the next frame. Adding the 'Slash-White Sword' entity, this quest maker lines it up in the desired position and moves to the next frame.
After repeating the process with each frame of the sword animation, the quest is saved and loaded into ZC. The result? When Link swings his sword, he stabs both forward and backward.

Of course, that's a pretty primative example, but it would make setting up custom items soooo much easier.


I'm rather fond of the Subscreen editor, so having more editors with that basic setup would suit me just fine.


Seconded. Oh, and this would be Eight-thed for the general Link attack positioning suggestion.

[*b*]

*b* ... Your word choice and explanation were superb, far better than what I could have hoped to ramble off

Ah, but I can do even better!

http://sotw.purezc.com/Gashin/SPE.gif
(am)

Corny edit of the Link sprite screen, but it'll do. This is what I think it should look like, give or take a border or two. Very simple and easy to use. Click the non-greyed icon, and click and/or drag the sprite to the desired position. Either that, or cick the non-greyed icon and it will make the sword appear in the upper-left corner, then press the arrow keys to position it

[Limzo]

Ninthed.

[Woppodie]

Tenthed

[Master_of_Power]

one hundred eighty seconded =P

But seriously, this is something very important and is nessicary.

And many agree with this too


When using big link tiles the sword comes out at incorrect places. So I was thinking maybe just have a section on the weapon tiles that allows you to place the item at different points, maybe have a high, medium and low point. So it comes out in the top tile, a tile that is halfway between top and bottom and the bottom tile (where it is now) Basically full size (which use 32x32 and go to the top) can use the high, Minish cap style can use the Medium and normal can use Low. Medium item placement could be ditched but it may be helpful to get the item centered properly.

If you can't figure out what I mean, let me know I can make a diagram for you.

Later,
Lotus


With bigger Link comes a problem with attacking. Why not be able to edit where the sword stabs, the hammer animation placement, the Nayru's Love rocket's spit out and come back in, etc. and I DON'T want to have to do this through scripting, as I'm sure a lot of people don't as well.


...

3 - Change sword/item positions for Big Link. I don't know how this would work, or COULD work with ZQuest, but what it would do is allow you to change the positions where the sword and other items appear when using the Big Link tiles. Not all of the Links out there are the same size or use the same positions, and forcing people to make their sprites fit the pre-defined positions sucks. This would apply to Link holding up items, swinging his sword, using the ladder, raft, arrows, ect.

3.5 - Adding onto my last suggestion, it'd be cool to adapt that system to be able to extend the amount of tiles the items use, and maybe even the amount of frames and what speed they animate at for each animation

[ShadowTiger]

For an editor like this, I was actually thinking in terms of Macromedia Flash. You'd start off like *b*'s remarkable mockup, but you could specify how many frames the stab or slash would last for. That would create a workfield similar to Flash's frame setup up top. You'd then click on each frame to set up the field for designs, and be able to specify the hitbox for each frame, the graphic assortment for each frame, and the magic expenditure for each frame, assuming applicable.

[Master_of_Power]

In that case, it would seem foolish to have it just for the slash/stab/attacking sprites. You could edit each frame or each movement/attack and set how many frames each sprite uses. but thats just my opinion. Also, a good idea would be leaving pre-set animation types like the classic/classic v2(makes the north walking sprite use two different tiles rather than flipping one)/bs/lttp

[beefster09]

For an editor like this, I was actually thinking in terms of Macromedia Flash. You'd start off like *b*'s remarkable mockup, but you could specify how many frames the stab or slash would last for. That would create a workfield similar to Flash's frame setup up top. You'd then click on each frame to set up the field for designs, and be able to specify the hitbox for each frame, the graphic assortment for each frame, and the magic expenditure for each frame, assuming applicable.
Actually, I think just two more frames should do it. Then you can implement LttP slashing. But having ten frames/adjustable frames is just overkill for now. They can implement that soon after 2.50.

[Lotus_Eater]

http://www.armageddongames.net/showthread.php?t=95335

I suggested this and no one said a thing. And it needs to be for ALL items, not just a sword.

[*b*]

http://www.armageddongames.net/showthread.php?t=95335

I suggested this and no one said a thing. And it needs to be for ALL items, not just a sword.

Of course, though this topic is about the sword positions

The system I described earlier could easily be adapted for the appearance of everything regarding Link's sprite. Where the arrows appear from, where held items appear, maybe even stuff like the point where the Din's Fire ring spreads from

[Woppodie]

I take it that this will allow us to make right handed links then...

[Lotus_Eater]

I think you can already, just adjust the sword in the tile, moving it up and down, left and right can alter where it appears from.
Anyways, I think this needs to be implemented very soon as it is an important feature that can seriously dampen a quest if they wanted to use Big Link, which many people want to do, and since the big link has been added, this should be done as well, maybe modifying the Big Link Hit box to make it work? At least until a customizable version can work.

[Woppodie]

Well, what I was referring too were slashing tiles, which now that I think of it, I can make Link right handed in right now...

Edit: I just realized, it wouldn't make a difference, because for 3 of the slashes, the slashing sword would appear to Link's left, not right...

[redmage777]

This does look intresting, It could be used to generate customised "hidden skills" later on. If there were a way to have it detect specific button combos. (note I did say "Later on")

Also a great feature for custom item making.