What are good tricks for making dungeons?

[beefster09]

Well, I make my dungeon, and it just looks bland. I know one trick about mapmaking: you want to make them really want to get to a certain spot. But I don't know tricks for making dungeons good. I'm pretty bad at it.:newbie:

[The_Amaster]

Awww, your not a newbie. You've got more posts than I do. Well, anyway...

1.) Make use of freeform dungeons. This alone can give a dungeon a better feel.
2.) Multple levels also look cool. Not just floors, but ledges. Just use the lowest level of wall as a ledge, and than a regular wall above it.
3.)Hand in hand with the above, it can be cool, yet frustrating (in a good way) for players to have items or stairs out of reach above their reach but still in view on ledges. That way they have to go around to reach it.
4.) Also introduce a puzzle or challenge that requires a specific item in the beggining of the dungeon, and put the item further in, requireing some backtracking.
Need any other advice?

[beefster09]

1.) Make use of freeform dungeons. This alone can give a dungeon a better feel.
I do this already.



2.) Multple levels also look cool. Not just floors, but ledges. Just use the lowest level of wall as a ledge, and than a regular wall above it. Well I guess I could do this on the dungeons that I'm revamping, but then I would have to add/move around maps and dmaps. Oh well.
I should probably put ledges in the Air Temple, (4th dungeon) though. It'd make sense.



3.)Hand in hand with the above, it can be cool, yet frustrating (in a good way) for players to have items or stairs out of reach above their reach but still in view on ledges. That way they have to go around to reach it.

4.) Also introduce a puzzle or challenge that requires a specific item in the beggining of the dungeon, and put the item further in, requireing some backtracking. Yeah, I should probably do this A LOT more.


Need any other advice? Detail. I suck at detail.

[LinkMaster500]

If you've already made some dungeons, you probably don't want to bother revamping maps and Dmaps if it would be too much work, but it's your choice. There's nothing wrong with implementing new tricks into dungeons as you learn how to use them.

One tip on puzzles: Test them to make sure they work properly and that they are solvable. What I like to do (with my quest in process) is to set a warp from the beginning screen of the quest directly to the puzzle room, which saves time.

[Revfan9]

*too lazy to type, so just copies and pastes*

A. Actual Depth and Perceived Depth

It is very important for your dungeon to feel deep and intuitive. However, there is a difference between how deep your dungeon actually is, and how deep your dungeon feels. First, count the number of screens that Link will walk through in the dungeon (the screens that will appear on the map). For this guide on depth, we'll use the Frost Temple from Ascending Sonata, which is an 80 screen dungeon. Now, there are a few examples I need to explain: There are active rooms and passive rooms. An active room is one that is involved in a direct objective list in the dungeon, if that objective list doesn't tell the reader which screens to walk through (then every screen would be active). If a screen is just one that you go through, it is a passive screen. Now, one would think that if every screen was active, it would be an incredibly deep dungeon. That is true in some sense, as it boosts the actual depth incredibly. However, the perceived depth is really all that matters, and a dungeon with all active screens has very little perceived depth, as it feels very dull and thrown together. However, too many passive screens makes the dungeon feel as if there is nothing to do but walk around. The perfect balance between active and passive screens seems to be 2/5 of the screens being active. Any more active screens feels overstuffed, and any less feels empty. HOWEVER! Do not confuse this! When I say 2/5 screens being active, I mean strictly in the screen count. I do not mean in the way you beat the dungeon. If you have 3 passive screens that the player passes through followed by 2 active screens, the dungeon feels very lazily designed and noobish. My Frost Temple has 80 screens, so that means that 32 screens are active, and 48 of the screens are passive. When in doubt, take a look at another quest that is loved by many. For example, Shoelace pulls the whole actual and perceived depth thing PERFECTLY in Cerbat Shrine (level 4), which is 99% of the reason why that dungeon had such an extremely professional feel.

B. Symmetry

Symmetry can give your dungeon a dignified, constructed feel. Symmetry is not a good idea for caves, coves, or other natural creation, as Symmetry makes the dungeon feel man-made, however it does wonders for temples, towers, and such. When I say symmetry, I mean with the shape of the dungeon, not with the layout, which is actually approximate symmetry. So keep the outer walls symmetrical, not the inner ones.

[beefster09]

A. Actual Depth and Perceived Depth

It is very important for your dungeon to feel deep and intuitive. However, there is a difference between how deep your dungeon actually is, and how deep your dungeon feels. First, count the number of screens that Link will walk through in the dungeon (the screens that will appear on the map). For this guide on depth, we'll use the Frost Temple from Ascending Sonata, which is an 80 screen dungeon. Now, there are a few examples I need to explain: There are active rooms and passive rooms. An active room is one that is involved in a direct objective list in the dungeon, if that objective list doesn't tell the reader which screens to walk through (then every screen would be active). If a screen is just one that you go through, it is a passive screen. Now, one would think that if every screen was active, it would be an incredibly deep dungeon. That is true in some sense, as it boosts the actual depth incredibly. However, the perceived depth is really all that matters, and a dungeon with all active screens has very little perceived depth, as it feels very dull and thrown together. However, too many passive screens makes the dungeon feel as if there is nothing to do but walk around. The perfect balance between active and passive screens seems to be 2/5 of the screens being active. Any more active screens feels overstuffed, and any less feels empty. HOWEVER! Do not confuse this! When I say 2/5 screens being active, I mean strictly in the screen count. I do not mean in the way you beat the dungeon. If you have 3 passive screens that the player passes through followed by 2 active screens, the dungeon feels very lazily designed and noobish. My Frost Temple has 80 screens, so that means that 32 screens are active, and 48 of the screens are passive. When in doubt, take a look at another quest that is loved by many. For example, Shoelace pulls the whole actual and perceived depth thing PERFECTLY in Cerbat Shrine (level 4), which is 99% of the reason why that dungeon had such an extremely professional feel.

B. Symmetry

Symmetry can give your dungeon a dignified, constructed feel. Symmetry is not a good idea for caves, coves, or other natural creation, as Symmetry makes the dungeon feel man-made, however it does wonders for temples, towers, and such. When I say symmetry, I mean with the shape of the dungeon, not with the layout, which is actually approximate symmetry. So keep the outer walls symmetrical, not the inner ones.

A. That's where I've been doing wrong all this time. I have way too many passive screens. Probably 1 Active:4 Passive. That's why my dungeons feel so... "Blah!"

B. I don't quite understand what you are trying to say by "the shape of the dungeon, not with the layout, which is actually approximate symmetry."

[Imprisoned]

Yeah make it something like that when you enter about the 3rd screen of the dungeon, you see an very useful item (hookshot, raft etc.) but you must walk about 10 screens to reach it... or get an another item first.

Also if you don't have detail, add something of the following to your dungeon
-Things on the floor
-Statues
-Pillars
-Spikes
-Secret combos
I'd prefer something like this
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7739/lolwi2.png

[gotWii]

I created pots for Link's house. Not really a dungeon, just a dungeon type Dmap. They turned out pretty good. :)

[Joe123]

what relation does that have to the rest of the thread :confused:

[Tacomaster22]

i concur.