1up: Wii vs PS3

[Warlock]

1up did a PS3 vs Wii comparison.. this has to be a joke:
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155235

Read the last one (page 3) - launch lineup. How the HELL did PS3 win that? PS3 doesn't have crap for launch, whereas Nintendo has Zelda (and a number of interesting 3rd party titles that are not ports of 360 games). That instantly invalidates the entire article.

Other stuff I don't agree with include online support, at least sort of... I realize Nintendo doesn't have anything there *now* which is why I can sort of understand this, but it's also why you can't make an overgeneralization of the two at the moment as well.

I also disagree with extra functionality. I'd probably agree and give this to PS3 if the blu-ray player wasn't friggin' driving the price up by $300.

[MANDRAG GANON]

When I click the link it tells me that the pages does not exist anymore and takes me to the main page.
I think the link was just wrong cuz I found it on their main page.

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155235 here

Which appears to be the exact same link you put up....i wonder why it wont work when clicked

[Warlock]

When I click the link it tells me that the pages does not exist anymore and takes me to the main page.

fixed

[mikeron]

1up did a PS3 vs Wii comparison.. this has to be a joke:
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155235

Read the last one (page 3) - launch lineup. How the HELL did PS3 win that? PS3 doesn't have crap for launch, whereas Nintendo has Zelda (and a number of interesting 3rd party titles that are not ports of 360 games). That instantly invalidates the entire article.

Other stuff I don't agree with include online support, at least sort of... I realize Nintendo doesn't have anything there *now* which is why I can sort of understand this, but it's also why you can't make an overgeneralization of the two at the moment as well.

I also disagree with extra functionality. I'd probably agree and give this to PS3 if the blu-ray player wasn't friggin' driving the price up by $300.

Yes, that article was obvious horse shit. Supposedly, they compared the Wii '06 lineup to the PS3 '07 lineup. There was an informative thread (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/1653222) about it on /.

After this and the NWN2 incident, you have to wonder wtf is with 1up.

EDIT:
NWN2 link (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/11/06)

[Warlock]

Good, so it's not just me who thinks this article is BS?

I've really been losing a lot of respect for 1up lately anyways. They gave a horrible review of Dark Messiah of Might & Magic which basically said "you can kick every enemy in the game to win" (which is not true - not to mention, if you don't like kick, you can opt NOT to use it -_-).

Aside from that, the site sucks in general. Horrible layout, very twitchy (i.e. enough flash crap already!), and I can't even access the site from home - I don't know why. They are blocking me or something (but I can get in *sometimes*). I've tried contacting them and never got a reply. It's stupid :P

[AtmaWeapon]

Expect more bull from the media. Sony throws more money into marketing than Nintendo and the industry is ripe with accusations of purchased reviews these days. It doesn't take much to connect those dots.

[vegeta1215]

I agree with most of the categories, but at this point in time, it's hard to accurately judge all of them.

Online - I don't think much info has been released about either system in terms of how online will work. Sony had no centralized system in the past, and the one for the DS was lacking (but it worked pretty well), so both have a lot to live up to compared to X-Box Live. I'd call this one a tie.

Extra functionality - Okay, we know PS3 plays blu-ray discs, and other types of discs. Otherwise the system are about the same. Both offer backwards compatibility and ways to edit photos/video etc. I'd call this one a tie too, although I will say I think Nintendo has a leg up in compatibility, cause the Cube compatibility is probably going to be near flawless since the hardware is nearly identical, and then you have the Virtual Console back library. And to be fair the big hard drive in the PS3 will make things a bit easier do store a lot of media. However, if you're in it for the blu-ray, the PS3 will be the cheapest blu-ray player available.

Games - Both the Wii and the PS3 share a lot of the same launch titles (which are already on the X-Box 360), but from what I can tell, there are more exclusives for Wii in the "launch window" - not too mention you get some unique control offerings for those 3rd party games with the Wii-mote that is not available anywhere else. I'd say Wii wins that category.

[Warlock]

I agree with most of the categories, but at this point in time, it's hard to accurately judge all of them.

Online - I don't think much info has been released about either system in terms of how online will work. Sony had no centralized system in the past, and the one for the DS was lacking (but it worked pretty well), so both have a lot to live up to compared to X-Box Live. I'd call this one a tie.

Extra functionality - Okay, we know PS3 plays blu-ray discs, and other types of discs. Otherwise the system are about the same. Both offer backwards compatibility and ways to edit photos/video etc. I'd call this one a tie too, although I will say I think Nintendo has a leg up in compatibility, cause the Cube compatibility is probably going to be near flawless since the hardware is nearly identical, and then you have the Virtual Console back library. And to be fair the big hard drive in the PS3 will make things a bit easier do store a lot of media. However, if you're in it for the blu-ray, the PS3 will be the cheapest blu-ray player available.

Games - Both the Wii and the PS3 share a lot of the same launch titles (which are already on the X-Box 360), but from what I can tell, there are more exclusives for Wii in the "launch window" - not too mention you get some unique control offerings for those 3rd party games with the Wii-mote that is not available anywhere else. I'd say Wii wins that category.

I agree on the tie for Online. In terms of Extra functionality though, Wii has Virtual Console AND plays GC titles. That beats PS3 just playing PSX/PS2. Now there is word that PS3 will have its own VC (*cough*ripoff*cough*) but you're talking about likely a much more expensive system (these are all PSX games - you can probably still find these in stores.. I imagine Sony will charge at least $15-20 each) and Nintendo has a lot more systems with theirs (NES/SNES/N64/Sega Genesis/TG16 and I hear Commodore 64!). Otherwise they are prob about the same, but like I said, if anything Blu-ray subtracts points from Sony - forcing that on people jacks up the system price to rediculous $600. Not only that, it's the cause of the system shortages, since the blue diodes are extremely hard to manufacture reliably.

[Orion]

It is kinda frustrating when I turn on the news, and look at the newspaper, and all I hear about is the PS3, and how people are lining up for the PS3.

Word of mouth seems to be carrying the Wii though. Apparently there are more people in my small little town waiting for it than I thought, so I might have to wait in line awhile at Walmart. On the otherhand, I have held a Wii, Wii controller, and Zelda in my hands. Very frustrating, not being able to buy it yet.

[Xyvol]

This is the same article that EGM published in their magazine. I didn't really argee with it either, but I already made my mind up long ago. According to the title list, the Wii has three games I'm gonna buy at launch, while there is zip that I'm interested in for PS3. I'll check back in a year when Metal gear comes out.

[Skulkraken]

I didn't agree with EGM's view on things either. A lot of the direct game comparisons (like Call of Duty 3) I've seen sided with the PS3 version due to a combination of online play and graphics. This is reminding me of PSP vs. DS all over again.....

[Warlock]

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155102

lol.. only 1up would think that these coincidences would add up to "PS3 = PS2 success". Some of them are real stretches though.. I laughed at them mentioning the demos from e3 - "OMG SONY USED TEH SAEM DEMO IDEAS!!!11"

At least they bothered to do a counter article afterwards :P

[MottZilla]

The PS3 US launch is already turning ugly. Ebay really has made these system launches very profitable for those willing to wait the longest. They even have people that have picked up homeless people in a uhaul thing, and are paying them to wait in line to buy a PS3. And they think it's a GOOD thing and they are PROUD of it. They kick them each 100$ while they make "alittle profit" of perhaps 1500$ or more. Ofcourse if I can grab a PS3 or two to sell I will.

[Kingboo30]

That kinda reminds me of what the Launch in Japan was like.

[Warlock]

The PS3 US launch is already turning ugly. Ebay really has made these system launches very profitable for those willing to wait the longest. They even have people that have picked up homeless people in a uhaul thing, and are paying them to wait in line to buy a PS3. And they think it's a GOOD thing and they are PROUD of it. They kick them each 100$ while they make "alittle profit" of perhaps 1500$ or more. Ofcourse if I can grab a PS3 or two to sell I will.

I think it's going to backfire personally. PS3 is already rediculously priced, and they expect people to tack on $300+ more to that for what? Just "to have it"? There are no decent launch games, there are barely even a decent amount of blu-ray movies out right now (plus eBay PS3 will be greater priced than a normal blu-ray player). I think people are gonna be shocked when suddenly they have two+ PS3s and no one wants to buy them. I think the amount of people that genuinely *want* the system (and are so impatient that they can't wait for new stock) is going to be incredibly low compared to just about any other "hard to get at launch" console.

[mikeron]

PS3 is already rediculously priced, and they expect people to tack on $300+ more to that for what? Just "to have it"? There are no decent launch games, there are barely even a decent amount of blu-ray movies out right now (plus eBay PS3 will be greater priced than a normal blu-ray player).And the launch titles are all scaling to 480p. Amazing.

[MottZilla]

Where'd you hear that? They say some HDTVs that don't do 720p will scale down to 480p rather than up to 1080i or something. But I agree Warlock, I think few people actually want the PS3 that badly. But I think the small stock that is out there will easily sell out, even at over retail price. And I think you're right, some people will get stuck with PS3s they didn't want if they want too much. I think in the end, people might realize the huge increase in PS3s on ebay actually benifits them because now they know they don't have to spend that huge amount, because there will always be another bunch of PS3s.

I dunno, I think the excitement and prices will die down but flare up before christmas. But after that expect them to steadily go down.

[Warlock]

Where'd you hear that? They say some HDTVs that don't do 720p will scale down to 480p rather than up to 1080i or something.

Right, 720p games are scaling down to 480p on 1080i TVs instead of up (like 360 does). It's still pretty shitty :P

[Grasshopper]

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155102

lol.. only 1up would think that these coincidences would add up to "PS3 = PS2 success". Some of them are real stretches though.. I laughed at them mentioning the demos from e3 - "OMG SONY USED TEH SAEM DEMO IDEAS!!!11"

At least they bothered to do a counter article afterwards :P

Yeah, I hate stupid articles like that because they just pull things out of thin air when comparing two things. That last one was not even the same comparison. Lets compare Ebay prices of PS2, with retail prices of PS3.

I have a better comparison
PS2 has games, PS3 has games...there you go.

[Orion]

Heh, being around school this week, there's a lot of people who want the PS3 badly. Of course, they hear the price and how many the stores actually have, and end up disappointed, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the typical college students that only play games for sports and GTA, still want one.

My roommate, who works at the Walmart here, threatens to kill anyone who utters 'PS3' now, after having to field hundreds of questions about it over the last few days he's worked.

[AtmaWeapon]

...that doesn't change the fact that most of the typical college students that only play games for sports and GTA, still want one.Yeah that's pretty much Sony's target demographic. They are a large moneymaking force in the game industry and catering to this crowd has pretty much shaped the past 7 years of gaming. I have an irrational hatred of this group of people, probably because 99% of them are the guys that were busy ostracizing me in elementary and junior high because only nerds played video games. Anything that disappoints them makes me a little happy.

[mikeron]

I have an irrational hatred of this group of people, probably because 99% of them are the guys that were busy ostracizing me in elementary and junior high because only nerds played video games. Anything that disappoints them makes me a little happy.I'm sure they secretly played Sports Jeopardy for the SNES.

[Warlock]

http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/11/scea_vp_on_back.html

A sample:

Do you have a response for people experiencing backwards compatibility issues and/or television upscaling problems?

I would like my car to fly and make me breakfast, but that's an unrealistic expectation. We've reported problems on only 200 of the 8000 PlayStation 1 and 2 games. I would challenge the average consumer to say that there are significant problems with any of the games in their library.

If you look at our competitors, one machine has zero backwards compatibility and one only has it with a third of their games. [Actually, the Wii is backwards compatible with the full GameCube library. - CK]Typical Sony is basically all I can say to this :P I love the part where he also says they will overtake the 360 the second they can match the 360's production (that is, get enough systems out there).. lol..

P.S. - also, since when does 360 *not* have backwards compatability? Know thy competition :P

[ZTC]

I noticed now they did a semi-listing on the PS3's '07 lineup whilst not doing the same for the Wii

Nintendo will supply tons of top-quality first-party offerings, but third-party support still appears pretty weak compared to PS3 and 360. I find that kind of funny since they also mention that not only is the PS3 harder to develop for, but 'third-party publishers struggling to support PlayStation Network'
lol

[AtmaWeapon]

The backwards compatibility issue is pretty small tbqh imo. 200 games with issues out of an 8,000 game library amounts to about 2.5% of the games being incompatible. Go check the used rack at a games dealer and you'll find that the PSX and PS2 library is chock full of games you'd never consider playing. I've always felt like for every big hit in Sony's lineup there's at least 20 or 25 failures.

So, whether the backwards compatibility issue is significant or not depends on which games have the compatibility issues. Incompatibilities with a Final Fantasy is a problem (or a godsend depending on your opinion); incompatibilities with some Valusoft game for sale to grandmothers unaware of what games are popular is not.

However, the spin that representative put on it is an example of why every problem with the PS3 is scrutinized so heavily: Sony does whatever it takes to pretend they aren't a problem up to and including the use of lies. XBox 360 has compatibility issues, but the bulk of the XBox library works perfectly on the 360. For all we know, the Wii has no compatibility issues (though from what little I read I think it's just a beefed up Gamecube so screwing up compatibility would probably be hard).

The real loser in this is the interviewer for not immediately following up with, "Excuse me, could you elaborate on which of your competitors has no backwards compatibility? The Wii has it and the XBox 360 has it, are you in competition with the Phantom?" No member of the press has had the balls to call out a Sony rep during an interview and that is quite sad because there is so much potential to make some faces turn red.

[Warlock]

The backwards compatibility issue is pretty small tbqh imo. 200 games with issues out of an 8,000 game library amounts to about 2.5% of the games being incompatible. Go check the used rack at a games dealer and you'll find that the PSX and PS2 library is chock full of games you'd never consider playing. I've always felt like for every big hit in Sony's lineup there's at least 20 or 25 failures.

So, whether the backwards compatibility issue is significant or not depends on which games have the compatibility issues. Incompatibilities with a Final Fantasy is a problem (or a godsend depending on your opinion); incompatibilities with some Valusoft game for sale to grandmothers unaware of what games are popular is not.

However, the spin that representative put on it is an example of why every problem with the PS3 is scrutinized so heavily: Sony does whatever it takes to pretend they aren't a problem up to and including the use of lies. XBox 360 has compatibility issues, but the bulk of the XBox library works perfectly on the 360. For all we know, the Wii has no compatibility issues (though from what little I read I think it's just a beefed up Gamecube so screwing up compatibility would probably be hard).

The real loser in this is the interviewer for not immediately following up with, "Excuse me, could you elaborate on which of your competitors has no backwards compatibility? The Wii has it and the XBox 360 has it, are you in competition with the Phantom?" No member of the press has had the balls to call out a Sony rep during an interview and that is quite sad because there is so much potential to make some faces turn red.

Well, Devil May Cry and Tekken don't work. So yeah, it's a big deal. 200 games *is* small, but when half of those are great, popular games it's pretty bad.

[AtmaWeapon]

Yep, those two lean my opinion away from "insignificant problem".

[Warlock]

I googled it and came up with this:
http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-Backwards-Compatibility-status-list/pg/49/aid/72577

Site's a bit slow, and I don't think it's complete. I'll see if I can find a better link. It sounds like *no* PS2 Hard Drive games (i.e. FFXI) work on PS3 though.

Edit: Oh, and I've heard the Guitar Hero guitar controller doesn't work on PS3.
(edit again) http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/guitar-hero-ii-unplayable-on-ps3-214094.php

Edit2: A bit better list from IGN (English titles at least :P):
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745439p1.html

[Grasshopper]

Heh, being around school this week, there's a lot of people who want the PS3 badly. Of course, they hear the price and how many the stores actually have, and end up disappointed, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the typical college students that only play games for sports and GTA, still want one.
I'm actually getting a different reaction from the customers here. They come in wanting a PS3, then ask how much it is. They act in shock but they also have this lame look on their face that gives me the impression that they think its cool that they own something so expensive. Not to mention they smile and laugh and say "I definetly gotta get one of those." If a person wants a system JUST because its $600...be my guest. :rolleyes:

What I don't understand is how for the last week, I've heard PS3 this and PS3 that. When does it come out, how much does it cost, will I be able to get one. Even today, I've heard that (yes, I had to work after all). Really, don't they think its a bit too late to be trying to get one. Wii though, comes out a mere 48 hours later, yet nobody knows anything about it, or even asks about it. The average consumer doesn't even know what it is and I get a response such as "The what?" or "What's that?"

[MottZilla]

It depends where you live and who you talk to man. There is ofcourse a grouping of people who are playstation idiots. But there's a bigger group of a more informed public that is aware of other choices. Like I said waaaay back months ago, I kinda hope the Wii has a frenzy, but not so much so that I can't get one. ;)

[Orion]

So I had a little fun with some people waiting in line this morning at the local Shopko. The store only had 2 units in, and one guy had been camping outside to buy them both. The store opened at 8. Meanwhile, me, sitting at the Starbucks where I work, which is just a stone's throw away from where he was sitting, saw him get up and go to his car at about 6 am. So I coaxed my coworker and I to dash out of the store and stand in line until he came back. The look on his face was priceless when he saw two people had taken his spots.

Of course we gave him his spot back, I haven't the money to buy and sell a PS3.

Btw, I got a good laugh when I went to Walmart today and saw that their new PS3 ddemo kiosk was locked up.


Unfortunately in my town, which I thought there would be few people who actually even knew what a Wii was, well, the hype has been about as equal to the PS3. I know the local Walmart only got 20 in, and I know of at least 5 people who are going to line up. That's people that I know of. So I'm hoping that I will still be able to get one without lining up obscenely early.

[MottZilla]

Don't buy shit at Walmart man. They're evil. And not in a cool way.

I guess I can understand if it's your only choice though. Sunday is coming up fast. Only thing that'll make it faster is playing lots of WoW. How time flys when you're getting nowhere in WoW. ;)

[Grasshopper]

WoW...? Yup, I'm scanning the auction house while making this post. :)

On the topic of Wii, it has internal memory (unsure how much, 512?), as well as a slot for SD memory cards on the front. It also has 2 USB ports on the back of the console. I haven't really read much about it, but I assume I could just hook up my flash memory to the back of that sucker and save games on that, correct?

USB memory is much cheaper than SD cards

[MottZilla]

The Wii has 512MB internal memory. SD cards aren't that much if you wait for instant rebates and such. I'm not sure your USB stick will work for additional storage. Also the SD port is also SD I/O meaning there is potential for add-ons using the SD port. And ofcourse the USB port too.

[Anthus]

My friend had the EGM with a similar comparison in it. It get's on my nerves when people like him say that the Wii sucks just because of some biased, opinionated article. Note that not one thing there was an actual fact (other than launch title names) It was 95% opinion.

People also fail to see what kind of company Sony is. Am I the only one that finds a it a little strange that Sony announced motion sensitive controllers only weeks after the Wii-mote's debut?

Sony takes stuff from Nintendo. Back in the day, They actually worked together, but Sony broke the contract, and made the PS1. They stole the Analog idea at this point too. Nintendo later helped with the crappy ass Phillips CD-i.

I also think Sony will not do too well this time. At least not in this first year. When Blu-ray prices comes down, and the systems can be made cheaper, and there are some good games out for it, maybe. There is nothing more aggravating the Sony fan-boy n00bs that bash the Wii only because of it's weaker processor, and lower resolution.

Thank you, that is all :P

[vegeta1215]

Sony takes stuff from Nintendo. Back in the day, They actually worked together, but Sony broke the contract, and made the PS1. They stole the Analog idea at this point too. Nintendo later helped with the crappy ass Phillips CD-i.

Actually, Nintendo "broke the contract", not Sony. You can check out the story here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_PlayStation#Development.

So really, if it weren't for Nintendo, Sony might not be in the console business. Not that I am a huge fan of Sony - I do like their electronics, and the PSone is a slick little machine, but I just had to set the story straight.

[MottZilla]

There is nothing more aggravating the Sony fan-boy n00bs that bash the Wii only because of it's weaker processor, and lower resolution.


The only problem is that the processing and gpu are so horribly far behind. Wii's hardware woulshave been impressive last generation. But this new generation... lets just round it to having about 128MB of memory, compared to 4 times that in PS3 and X360. It's a single cpu, no dual core or anything estimated to be running around somewhere less than 800mhz. All the systems are based on PPC designs so clock rate is a semi-fair comparison. The competition had 3.2ghz multi core designs. The Wii has around maybe a 240mhz outdated ATI gpu. The Xbox 360 has around a 500mhz much newer and advanced GPU, PS3 likewise with NVidia's gpu. Now I agree, you don't need high specs for a fun game. Some of my favorite games don't have very high end hardware at all. But the playing field should atleast be close!

The SNES and Genesis weren't that far apart. The Sega Saturn and PSx weren't. But if you compare the market leader at the time the Genesis arrived, the NES... It just wasn't going to survive no matter how great the games were. I'm just far more pessimistic about the Wii being a booming success. It can still keep Nintendo going. But I'm not convinced of much more. I think we will see a long drawn out generation. I doubt there will be any big winner market share wise.

[Anthus]

I thought the Wii had around 720Mhz, and the 360 used three core processors totaling about 3.7Ghz.

[AtmaWeapon]

wordsYes your expert analysis of how horribly underpowered the Wii is compared to the PS3 and XBox 360 is spot-on and accurate. However you seem to be making a mistake similar to the Jews: you expected a console to sweep down from the heavens on a white horse and conquer the Microsoft and Sony oppressors with a might the likes of which had ever been seen. Instead, Nintendo delivered a system that is designed to provide the experience they want to deliver to the widest audience possible.

I'm sorry the Wii won't be able to match the graphical prowess of its competitors. But verily I say unto you, the day you judge a console's merit by the number of polygons per second it can push is the day you are not gaming for fun.

Seriously Mott I like you and all but my sour grapes detector is offscale high when I point it at you today. You have visited every Wii thread with some comment about how you didn't want one anyway or it is underpowered or whatever. We get it, you're better than us in some way because you didn't go get a Wii. Now let us enjoy the system while you go play your games that you enjoy so much better you are devoting lots of time to telling us how much better you enjoy them than our Wii games.

[Aegix Drakan]

the day you judge a console's merit by the number of polygons per second it can push is the day you are not gaming for fun.

Quoted for truth. Gaming is about the fun you have, not about the graphics.

[MottZilla]

Um, I'm just stating my disappointment with Nintendo's choice of hardware. It's too underpowered in my opinion. I wanted Nintendo to do extremely well. I never expected them to "sweep down from the heavens on a white horse and conquer the Microsoft and Sony oppressors with a might the likes of which had ever been seen".

I visit Wii threads cause I'm a member here, and a moderator. Not to mention I am interested in the Wii. I just didn't decide to go spend all my gaming money on it because I think waiting awhile is a betetr idea for me.

I don't get why you think I'm devoting a bunch of time to telling you whatever you think I'm telling you. I just don't get whatever it is you're thinking. Just like you I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on Wii and Wii games. So why the hell don't you like me saying why I decided to pass on the Wii? I mean just because you don't like what I'm saying or my opinion doesn't mean it's any less valid.

Tobias, I think both PS3 and Xbox 360 are 3.2ghz clocks, but it's not a big deal. The point is both use multi core designs to crunch out even more processing power.


Quoted for truth. Gaming is about the fun you have, not about the graphics.

No one is denying that. But remember that in the past Super Nintendo's strength was in it's very powerful graphics and audio hardware. These qualitys really do matter. But if Wii did infact have a killer library of games (which in my opinion it doesn't) then it wouldn't matter. Wii right now has no games I find to be totally amazing.

[Breaker]

I don't think the PS3 or the Wii has any impressive games right now. That's what stopped me from buying one. Maybe when Metroid Prime or the next FF comes out, I'll think about buying one or even both, but for right now... meh. =/

[Nicholas Steel]

No one is denying that. But remember that in the past Super Nintendo's strength was in it's very powerful graphics and audio hardware.

um sega had a better system then the SNES but was harder to code for and as such not many GOOD games were made for it... where as the SNES had weaker graphics capabilities and... unsure about sound... it had loads more GOOD games then the sega console due to it just being loads simpler to code for.

im talking about the sega console that used 2 cpu's or something....

[AtmaWeapon]

um sega had a better system then the SNES but was harder to code for and as such not many GOOD games were made for it... where as the SNES had weaker graphics capabilities and... unsure about sound... it had loads more GOOD games then the sega console due to it just being loads simpler to code for.

im talking about the sega console that used 2 cpu's or something....I really think you are crossing some wires here. The SNES hardware was superior to the Genesis hardware but the Genesis had a very strong library of games which is what kept it competitive for so long.

The dual-cpu system was the Sega Saturn which was a pretty horrific failure in the states. The problem here was not only difficulty of development but the entrance of another competitor: Sony.

In the end the Wii's inferior hardware may leave it incapable of doing certain things but I honestly think Nintendo is not playing the "Who's making the most profit?" game anymore, so judging them by that measure seems a little unfair.

[MottZilla]

Atma is correct franpa. And I most certainly am because I regularly play my SNES and Genesis. The Sega Genesis had most definitely inferior Graphics and Audio capability. To give you a quick example, the Genesis could display 64 colors on screen at once (excluding special effects) where as the SNES could display 256 colors on screen (excluding special effects). That's 4 times the amount of colors on screen at once, plus the SNES had a much deeper palette to use compared to the Genesis which only had a palette of 512 colors.

Genesis however had a fast 68000 Cpu and despite its graphical and audio weaknesses it was a capable system. Esspecially for games with lots of action requiring a fast cpu to keep up. The SNES on the other hand had a much slower cpu and superb graphics and audio, making it less ideal for action packed games and more for the slower and visually imperssive things like RPGs.

Infact you may not realize this, but the Sega Genesis had a greater Market Share than the SNES at one point, and it lasted awhile.

The Sega Saturn was indeed plagued by the development difficulty and the entrance of Sony who had a system that was much easier to develop for.

I know what you mean Atma. Although actually one thing that is funny to think about is Nintendo isn't losing any money on Wii at all. Unlike M$ and Sony that start out losing lots of money, Nintendo refused to do that. And you're right, it's not like Nintendo will be banking lots and lots of money, but they are going to be making money and keep on going. I just wonder if next time around or when exactly they'll stop making strange design decisions. Like the N64 not being CD-ROM. The entire dumping of the SNES CD-ROM. The GameCube's Mini DVD discs... The GameCube's inability to do dual layer discs. And now, the Wii's inferior specifications to the competition.

I could agree more with their design if they had gone further than they did. They didn't have to go as far as Sony or M$. Sticking with a single core system running atleast 2.5ghz and a decent graphics chipset with 256mb RAM, standard harddisk perhaps... I really wonder if in the long run, and think so that in the long run it would have been smarter to push the Wii specs further. I know they wanted a low power, unintrusive, quiet convient system of sorts. But their prioritys really should have been able making a sizable (to the market at the time, being close to 360 and PS3 specs) console at a more affordable price that's easier to develop for with their new controller.

Wii will start looking better though once it's library of games fills in, assuming it fills in. I haven't heard much about initial sales.

[vegeta1215]

Wii will start looking better though once it's library of games fills in, assuming it fills in. I haven't heard much about initial sales.

http://nexgenwars.com/

Not sure how accurate their info is, but it will be interesting to follow if it's close.

[AtmaWeapon]

Nah Mott I think you are going to be disappointed waiting on Nintendo to make design decisions more sensible for the business environment. I'm reading a lot of Nintendo's last moves as a kind of "artist" phase. Seriously, every major Nintendo release lately has been something kind of crazy that people were unsure of until they played it.

Making TWW cel-shaded caused huge controversy (and generated free publicity) but Nintendo released it against screaming fans' will. The DS launched with two screens and I remember on this very forum we bickered back and forth about whether it was stupid or genius. Now the Wii launches with inferior hardware but a unique user interface.

Every move has been something Nintendo set their heart on and decided to roll with whether their supporters liked it or not. An artist does the same thing (in fact history usually supports the idea that if an artist's work is not criticized as awful it is a failure). My concern is the extent of the damage that a misstep will cause them. Eventually they are going to fall in love with a true bad idea and this will be the undoing of Nintendo.

Until Miyamoto or someone comes up with an idea that requires fantastic hardware, I think the Wii is very indicative of what Nintendo will offer for years to come: an affordable machine that delivers party games and family games. Affordability is the feature that has defeated each of Game Boy's competitors for 20 years, and I think Nintendo is experimenting with using it as a weapon against Sony and Microsoft. They'll fail at defeating Sony or Microsoft, but will definitely not lose money.

[gdorf]

Nah Mott I think you are going to be disappointed waiting on Nintendo to make design decisions more sensible for the business environment. I'm reading a lot of Nintendo's last moves as a kind of "artist" phase. Seriously, every major Nintendo release lately has been something kind of crazy that people were unsure of until they played it.

Making TWW cel-shaded caused huge controversy (and generated free publicity) but Nintendo released it against screaming fans' will. The DS launched with two screens and I remember on this very forum we bickered back and forth about whether it was stupid or genius. Now the Wii launches with inferior hardware but a unique user interface.

Every move has been something Nintendo set their heart on and decided to roll with whether their supporters liked it or not. An artist does the same thing (in fact history usually supports the idea that if an artist's work is not criticized as awful it is a failure). My concern is the extent of the damage that a misstep will cause them. Eventually they are going to fall in love with a true bad idea and this will be the undoing of Nintendo.

Until Miyamoto or someone comes up with an idea that requires fantastic hardware, I think the Wii is very indicative of what Nintendo will offer for years to come: an affordable machine that delivers party games and family games. Affordability is the feature that has defeated each of Game Boy's competitors for 20 years, and I think Nintendo is experimenting with using it as a weapon against Sony and Microsoft. They'll fail at defeating Sony or Microsoft, but will definitely not lose money.

I think you raise a lot of good points. I'm interested in seeing how someone from Japan feels about Nintendo's business decisions. It seems to be that Nintendo, unlike Sony primarily tailors their console to the Japanese culture and environment. While some of their decisions may seem illogical to your or I, I bet many people in Japan feel the same way about the Playstation 3.


On another note, I hope 1up fails horribly. For the past few weeks they have been battling me for rankings on google for Xbox360 Cheats (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=xbox360+cheats&btnG=Google+Search). My site, btw, is AZGameCheats (sameless plug :P)

[Grasshopper]

Well, to the average consumer, graphics do matter. The general public is dumb. We all know that people will flock to what they think looks good whether they play it or not. And thats what the PS3 and Xbox 360 have.

Something I don't like about what the PS3 is when when people the point that its actually a good deal because it contains a blu-ray player (which retails about $1000 or more) and it plays games. Thats great. If you look at it that way, it probably is a good deal, but I don't want a blu-ray player. I don't have any need for it. So I get a device that I can't use that is driving the cost of my game machine up $300, or however much it is. Those people should offer to buy me a HDTV if they think its a good deal. At this time, 360 is so much better to get than a PS3.

A bit off-topic,...

Yesterday, when we opened, we had a majority of Wii owners in line ready to pick up their reserved system. We also had people wanting to due trade-ins, because for some reason, Sunday is the unofficial trade-in day for people to bring in backpacks full of games to keep us busy. Anyway, those two put together created a long line nearly out the door of the store. Something I didn't expect considering we opened Friday to an empty store for the first 15 minutes we were open. As we closed though yesterday, I was out front cleaning windows and guy walked up to me and asked what the line was for this morning. I told him it was for Wii pickups. He acted like didn't know what that was, and told me that he thought we might have gotten PS3s in. You think nobody but Sony can generate long lines of people. If that were the case, we'd have PS3s every Sunday. :rolleyes:

[MottZilla]

While I see the angle of using affordability to dominate, they really need more high quality well polished titles. Even then they actually can't dominate because of what Grasshopper pointed out that is true. Graphics are a factor, esspecially in games that are average or sub-par yet look pretty enough to sell.

Anyway, in a year we will see how it's all shaping up. Or atleast in 6 months we will have a slight idea.

[vegeta1215]

Once Metroid Prime 3 comes out, we will see what the Wii is really capable of ;)

[Grasshopper]

Graphics are a factor, esspecially in games that are average or sub-par yet look pretty enough to sell.

You mean like EA games? :D

[MottZilla]

You mean like EA games? :D

Well... Ya pretty much. =) Although in EA's defense, BurnOut rocks.