Children of Mana - thoughts?

[vegeta1215]

I've been waiting for Children of Mana to come out for a while, and now that it's out, I've having second thoughts about getting it, mainly because it has gotten very poor reviews thus far.

Most reviewers describe the game as a dungeon crawler, and a very shallow and tedious experience. I'm curious of what some of you think of it? I'm a Mana fan and am tempted to buy it regardless, but I don't want to keep buying bad Mana games if it means Square Enix is going to keep making bad Mana games.

Also, anyone play Magical Starsign? That game is made by Brownie Brown (whose team made the original Secret of Mana when they worked for Squaresoft), but that has received last luster reviews too :(

[Orion]

Creepy... I just came on to post the exact same topic... I'm also curious if anyone has played it and what they thought of it.

[Warlock]

I've played it a little bit.

Basically, the reviews are sort of right. It's *fun*, but it's *NOT* a Mana game, at least in the traditional sense. That aspect disappointed me greatly. Here is the basics:

You start out by picking one of four characters. This is the *only* character you get throughout the whole game (so no, the others don't join your party - you can't even have a party). I forget the names, but there is a guy, a girl, a sprite, and that rabbit guy from Legend of Mana.

The game is *extremely* mission-based. It will be something like, "Oh no, something is happening at the Mana tower!" and then you'll go to a non-interactive world map, click on "Mana Tower" and then you'll be in the dungeon. You go floor to floor, fighting monsters and collecting little mana sapling things (I forget the exact name) which is a fancy way of saying "key" to the portal ("door") to the next floor. After like 10 floors, you fight a boss. Some more story ensues, and then you are off to another location that is pretty much identical except for the terrain and monsters.

There are also "quests" you can do, which is like "kill all the rabbites" where you will go back to a previously beaten dungeon, and they will change "boss" floor into a random monster floor based on your quest. I think there are also "get X item" or something quests too, I dunno. Then you get a reward (item, money, etc) for doing that.

You get to carry along *one* spirit with you (i.e. Undine, Wisp, Salamander, etc etc) which can do either a "helpful" (i.e. Secret of Mana girl magic) or "attack" (i.e. Secret of Mana sprite magic) spell. You get so little MP that these guys are basically worthless. Bring Wisp along and just use him to cure yourself ;p I am playing the main guy, so maybe if you play the girl or sprite characters you get more MP and magic is more imporant. I dunno. No idea what the rabbit guy does. You can swap out spirits in between dungeons, and you can *only* swap equipment when you are not in a dungeon (gay).

There is also a "stone" system where you basically get a 4x4 grid and you can put different stones in there for like +1 ATK and crap. It seems largely pointless. Like, I thought maybe I'd get some kind of bonus for having say, all red stones. Nope. You can "equip" some extra attack moves (like I got a sonic wave attack) through this, but otherwise I don't know why they really bothered.

Like I said, the game is not *bad* persay, but it's just so disappointing and not nearly as good as I thought it would have been. I havn't really played it since the first day I got it (Nov. 1st) because I'd rather play FFXII/FFV, etc. From what I hear, it's really short - like 5 or 6 different dungeons. Then of course you could play quests and stuff I guess but that seems pointless.

[vegeta1215]

Although I had criticism for Legend of Mana, I didn't mind how differently it played compared to earlier Mana games. (plus it still had a lot of charm) Children of Mana just sounds very different - like a different game just set in the Mana universe. I can't imagine what that Mana themed RTS game is gonna be like.

I'm definitely picking up FFV though. I played it on ZSNES years ago, but I'd love another go at it.

[Warlock]

Although I had criticism for Legend of Mana, I didn't mind how differently it played compared to earlier Mana games. (plus it still had a lot of charm) Children of Mana just sounds very different - like a different games just set in the Mana universe. I can't imagine what that Mana themed RTS game is gonna be like.

I'm definitely picking up FFV though. I played it on ZSNES years ago, but I'd love another go at it.

Yeah, Children of Mana sort of *plays* like a Mana game, but the style is very very different. It's almost more like a Diablo-styled game (and the rooms are randomly generated here too, forgot to mention that). But not quite as good as Diablo :P

And yeah, FFV is freaking addictive. The *only* reason I picked it up already was because it was on sale last week (otherwise I have *way* too many games to play right now). And I havn't been able to put it down all weekend :D

Though it pisses me off - Sun. night I spent a long time skilling up Jobs by killing Skull Eaters (basically, gray squirrels that can insta-kill a party member with their attack and are immune to most attacks - you kill them by controlling the guy and having it kill itself :P). After all that, I stupidly decided to cast a spell on the guy, and suddenly there were SIX of them. I couldn't run away fast enough :( /cry So I lost all that progress :( But at this point I say screw it, I'll find something that's easier to kill in world 2 :P

[vegeta1215]

Where was FFV on sale?

One place I leveled up a lot was in some cave in the 2nd world, near where you get the Odin summon. I remember just using that summon over and over again to kill screens full of enemies (cause one or the two possible Odin summon moves slices every enemy in half for a one hit kill) Great game though. It will be fun getting all the jobs again - plus the bonus ones.

If I can get Children of Mana for cheap I will pick it up for sure. I just wish Square would port SD3 to the GBA. It's what we all want, am I right?

[Warlock]

Where was FFV on sale?

One place I leveled up a lot was in some cave in the 2nd world, near where you get the Odin summon. I remember just using that summon over and over again to kill screens full of enemies (cause one or the two possible Odin summon moves slices every enemy in half for a one hit kill) Great game though. It will be fun getting all the jobs again - plus the bonus ones.

If I can get Children of Mana for cheap I will pick it up for sure.

Best Buy had it for $30 - everywhere else I saw said $35. But maybe it wasn't a sale, I dunno. But I used a $20 and $5 gift certificate from Reward Zone and basically got the game for $5 :D

[Orion]

Anyone hear anything on SD4 lately?

[Warlock]

Anyone hear anything on SD4 lately?

I think I heard January? Or at least early 2007. I'll definately be picking that one up. The way I understand it, it's a bit more traditional (but then again, I thought this one was too -_-). I suspect it will be something more akin to Zelda or Dark Cloud in gameplay (I do believe you can jump though)

I'm still waiting for Seiken Densetsu 3 GBA/DS translated version tho :P (that is, an announcement that it's being made :D)

[ctrl-alt-delete]

I bought Magical Starsign, and it is pretty fun from what I have played so far. Give me some more time to play through it, and I will tell you more.

[Aegix Drakan]

Also, anyone play Magical Starsign? That game is made by Brownie Brown (whose team made the original Secret of Mana when they worked for Squaresoft), but that has received last luster reviews too :(

I just beat Magical starsign today, actually. It's very good, but I just wish they'd STICK TO THE FREAKING THEME. The beginning is all lighthearted and fluffy, and then, suddenly *BAM!* It's all deep and stuff. >_> Aside from that, It's AMAZING.

And about Children of Mana, I'll just see if one of my friends is getting it. If nobody gets it, then I'll pass on it too.

[EDIT]BTW Vegeta1215, I'm sorry I never posted about Contact. It's just that no store near my house ever got it...And seeing as it's been a month...I doubt I'll ever get it...

[Warlock]

I just beat Magical starsign today, actually. It's very good, but I just wish they'd STICK TO THE FREAKING THEME. The beginning is all lighthearted and fluffy, and then, suddenly *BAM!* It's all deep and stuff. >_> Aside from that, It's AMAZING.

And about Children of Mana, I'll just see if one of my friends is getting it. If nobody gets it, then I'll pass on it too.

[EDIT]BTW Vegeta1215, I'm sorry I never posted about Contact. It's just that no store near my house ever got it...And seeing as it's been a month...I doubt I'll ever get it...

Good to hear. Only reason I didn't pick it up yet is it's on my Christmas list :P I love Brownie Brown (the *real* makers of the Mana series.. seems like whenever Square puts a different team on it they screw it up - look at Legend, the first non-Brownie Brown Mana game) and I'm sure it will be excellent.

[vegeta1215]

I know this is an old topic, but my friend is letting me borrow his copy of Children of Mana, so I wanted to say a few things.

Warlock pretty much described how the game plays. I've only played through 3 dungeons (which advance the story), and as far as I know there are only 6-8. The side-quests are very similar to those in Legend of Mana. Basically you'll be revisiting the same areas over and over again, just fighting monsters.

It does get a little tedious, but I am having fun upgrading my weapons and trying out new gem combinations. After a little while you can pay someone to fuse gems together to create some really powerful ones. For instance there is one fusion that will give you double damage with your sword, which I'm sure will make the game even easier. With all the restraints on the game (ie one magic spirit at a time, only being able to change items between dungeons or part-way through dungeons), there is a decent challenge, and the gem stone stuff adds some variety to how you play. I'm anxious to try multiplayer, as I'm sure it will make the dungeons not so boring. It's a shame it's not online though.

I still may pick the game up, esp if I can find it cheap.

[Thunderbird]

Multi is pretty good. I had the opportunity to try it on New Years Eve, helping a friend get through a dungeon about 2 before where I was at (I forget which one). Hitting each other carries no penalty, though your partner(s) may still get shoved around by your attacks. Though there appears to be no way to trade items...at least we couldn't find one (which was a shame because I had a crapton of stuff I couldn't use or didn't need that she could have used).

I agree with you on the shame that there's no online.

[Mak-X]

I played through the first dungeon and boss and got bored and quit. I think I'd rather play through Sword of Mana again.

I didn't like the simple combat of A, A, A, and the proportions of the animations. And the text! They keep talking in the town, and then you get in the dungeon and they don't shutup and let you play.

The menus are too clunky and slow. Secret of Mana had a simple ring menu for everything, and it was quick. In Children, every time you go to buy something, the game has to transition the screens to a close up of the store keeper, and bring up a list of choices on the other screen. It's just needlessly slow. The ring menu is one of the unique features of the Mana series.

Maybe I should give it one more try but I just didn't want to play anymore. I don't remember even Sword of Mana being that bad. It has a good soundtrack by Kenji Ito though.

I've heard SD4 isn't like a traditional Mana game either even though its officially "Seiken Densetsu 4". I'm hearing it bombed in Japan, its kinda like Children of Mana with it being stage based, and its coming this Spring in the U.S.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134709&highlight=seiken+densetsu
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136929&highlight=seiken+densetsu
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iDm6H1I2HMc&mode=related&search=

Looks a little too much like Kingdom Hearts for me. I hope it turns out decent when it comes out.

[vegeta1215]

It's disappointing to hear that Dawn of Mana has gotten bad reviews thus far. I'm starting to think we're never going to get a "real" Mana game again. And to think I was contemplating getting a PS2 to play it (and other assorted games)

btw, Children of Mana gets a little more fun once you get the hammer. It knocks enemies around like crazy, and it's fury attack does a lot of damage. I'm also at the point now where I'm getting a lot more money, so I can fuse some killer gems. There's one called Soul of Gemma which gives you +25 attack and +10 defense. Only bad thing is it takes up a 3x2 space. Still pretty sweet though. For being a dungeon crawler, it is fun. I guess if you had different hopes, you'll be let down no matter what.

[Warlock]

Honestly, if you want a *real* Mana game get Magical Starsign. It's turn-based, so it's not exactly the same. But the feel is *so much* like Secret of Mana that it's awesome anyways. I get a distinct "Mana" vibe while playing it, to the point where if I didn't know I'd have been able to tell it was the same team. It just has so much charm.

[vegeta1215]

Well, Magical Starsign is made by the orignal Mana team (now Brownie Brown) ...so that's why it may feel like that. I was thinking about checking that out, but no one has mentioned anything about it here on AGN :(

[Warlock]

Well, Magical Starsign is made by the orignal Mana team (now Brownie Brown) ...so that's why it may feel like that. I was thinking about checking that out, but no one has mentioned anything about it here on AGN :(

Yeah definately get it. It's very fun and it feels just like Secret of Mana despite not really having the same control scheme (it's turn-based).

[Orion]

Aw, I had such high hopes that SD4 would be a good game. I had no idea that it was released overseas already and that it was so horrible.

Makes me hope they never do a Chrono sequel simply because you know they will screw it up.

I'm also curious to see if FF13 will tank or do really well. There's a lot of people who are willing to drop the $650 just to play that game.

[Warlock]

Makes me hope they never do a Chrono sequel simply because you know they will screw it up.

They already did. It's called Chrono Cross :P

Here are the problems with Chrono Cross:
-It's too big for its own good. 50+ characters? Do we need 50+ characters? Every character is practically the same. One of the things that was so amazingly great about Chrono Trigger was you had this core cast of characters, each one was extremely unique and had his or her own unique abilities. So it felt like you could really design some great teams by just changing up the characters. Each character also had an insane amount of story development which made you care for each one.
-No Techniques - well, I take that back. I think there was *ONE*. If you got Glenn (which forced you to not get another character I think!) he could do a technique. But I never bothered. That is so lame. One of the most awesome aspects of Chrono Trigger was the ability to combine spells with other teammates for double and triple techniques.
-No real time travel.. I think there was some here and there, but it was generally not in the game. Time Travel was one of the things that made CT so great, because it was awesome just to see how much the world changed, or how your actions in the past would change the future. That was one of the cool things about that game.
-Bastardization of CT story - once you even *get* to some connections with the CT story in this mess of a unneedlessly complex plot, every instance is like a smack in the face to CT. It's like "Well Robo died." "Well Chrono, Lucca and Marle are dead". "The kingdom of Garnia (sp?) was overthrown". etc. And then they have this huge big reveal that Lavos (sp again? I havn't played CT in awhile :D) was actually the cause of Humanity's birth. It's like, gee, thanks. The thing that was the worst bad guy in the first game is actually the reason why I'm here at all. That's nice to know. I'll also add to this the utter lack of locations from the first game, to the point where I couldn't even tell where the heck I was in the game world. It was extremely confusing, and I almost think the game was indicating that the CT world was like an "experiment world" or something and the CC world was "the real world". It was so stupid.
-No Dragonball Z artist - say what you want, but that art style made the whole game.

And that's only what I remember, keeping in mind I last played this game like 6 years ago.

Edit: BTW, CT was the only game I can think of (at least at that time) where the main character actually *dies* halfway through the story. That was huge.

[Orion]

Oops... I meant another Chrono sequel :P. I have played Chrono Cross, which wasn't as good, but I still enjoyed it (I just tried not to think of it so much as a direct sequel and more as a spiritual sucessor, like the FF titles are to one another).
What I meant to say is I hope they don't make a 3rd Chrono installment, because frankly, SE doesn't seem to have the talent to pull of a sequel that's as good as the first two.

[vegeta1215]

I'm sure you've already read my post about the pros and cons of Chrono Cross. If not, search for it in GGD.

[Warlock]

Ah I think I saw it a long time ago. But I checked it out again. You know Daarkseid said there that the CT team went to Enix? I wonder if they are still around over there. If so, with the two companies merged it might actually be a good time to do a real CT sequel since they could get much of the original team back.

[vegeta1215]

Chrono Cross had a lot of things going for it, but they just tried too hard to make connections with Chrono Trigger and the game suffered because of it - both because of unrealized potential and because of the inevitable comparisons made with CT.

If they make another "Chrono" game, they should start fresh. Personally though I think they should just leave things alone.

[Mak-X]

There's an interview with Chrono Cross' director, Masato Kato, on Yasunori Mitsuda's site.
http://www.cocoebiz.com/mitsuda/english/friends/kato.html

What he basically says about Chrono Cross is that they tried to make the best "Chrono" game they could with the available technology at the time, and that it was a "Chrono" game, but not "Trigger 2".

I still haven't played Chrono Cross myself. I might have to take up that recommendation of Magical Starsign (Magical Vacation 2) though.

[vegeta1215]

If you haven't played Cross yet Mak, you should check it out. Despite being disappointed in it, it did keep me hooked and I had fun playing it, as I'm sure you will too.

That interview was a good read. I understand Kato didn't just want to make a Trigger 2 game, which is fine. In fact, I liked most of the new stuff added to the game. The parallel worlds idea was neat, the battle system was fresh and fun, etc. It's just missing a lot in terms of character, which I consider the main strength of Trigger. It also doesn't help that the story is confusing at times, and you can tell they rushed to finish the game near the end (you'll know what I mean when you get there)

[Warlock]

If you haven't played Cross yet Mak, you should check it out. Despite being disappointed in it, it did keep me hooked and I had fun playing it, as I'm sure you will too.

That interview was a good read. I understand Kato didn't just want to make a Trigger 2 game, which is fine. In fact, I liked most of the new stuff added to the game. The parallel worlds idea was neat, the battle system was fresh and fun, etc. It's just missing a lot in terms of character, which I consider the main strength of Trigger. It also doesn't help that the story is confusing at times, and you can tell they rushed to finish the game near the end (you'll know what I mean when you get there)

Yeah it wasn't a bad game. It just wasn't Chrono Trigger. Not even close. And the story is pretty confusing at times like vegeta said. And yeah, I think the main thing it lacked was real character development. If they had chose to focus on say, 10 characters tops, that would have made it a much better game IMO.

And yeah, I will once again recommend Magical Starsign. It's a simple game, in that it's not this super-deep RPG like the Final Fantasy series (the recent ones at least). And it's a light-hearted game compared to a lot of other RPGs. But it's just so much fun. If you remember all the quirky-funny stuff from Secret of Mana, like "Rabbite Man", the Otter people, some of the wierd enemies, Santa Claus (as a monster), and even a lot of the dialog, this game has a lot of that same style to it. It's got the same quirky charm. And that's what I love so much about it.

[Lotus_Eater]

*Shameless Plug*
Hey guys, I am working on a project right now that will allow you to make Mana games, it will play much like SD3 and SoM combined with things from LoM and SwoM, so, keep your eyes peeled, though we may never see a good official game again, we'll see some unofficial ones.

*/Shameless Plug*

Also check out http://www.seikens.com for other Mana fans.

Later,
Lotus