Muslim Taxi Driver Refuses Blind Woman with Dog

[Monica]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1716093/posts

A Muslim minicab driver refused to take a blind passenger because her guide dog was "unclean".

Abdul Rasheed Majekodumni told Jane Vernon she could not get into his car with the dog because of his religion.

Islamic tradition warns Muslims against contact with dogs because they are seen as impure.

The case emerged as Jack Straw was embroiled in a controversy over Muslim women wearing veils and the row continued after a Muslim police officer was excused guard duty at the Israeli embassy. Today Mrs Vernon, 39, from Hammersmith, said: "This experience was very upsetting.

"I was tired and cold and just wanted to get home but this driver made me feel like I was a second-class citizen, like I didn't count at all."

Mrs Vernon, who works as a legal officer for the Royal National Institute for the Blind, added: "The owner of the minicab firm, Niven Sinclair, was also very insensitive, telling me that what had happened to me wasn't really very important, and I should have more respect for other people's culture. They have shown very little respect for my rights as a disabled person and have never once offered me an apology."

I just found this little story and I wondered people's opinions on it. Considering my blindness (not enough to need a guide dog, though) you can guess my opinion on this one... Cab Driver is not the right job for someone like that guy...:(

[MacWeirdo42]

Reminds me of those pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions because it "goes against their religion." Not such a problem in large cities, mind you, but in small towns with only one drug store, it can be a big problem.

Conclusion: you shouldn't work in a public service job if your religion might affect your interactions with others. Sure, everyone has the right to believe what they want, but that doesn't give anyone a free pass to treat others like shit because they're of a different religious persuasion.

Also, WTF is wrong with this guy? Gah...

[Breaker]

I wouldn't let some stupid blind bitch with a dirty dog get in my cab either.

[AtmaWeapon]

Honestly I didn't think dogs were allowed in cabs.

Secondly I think the appropriate response to this is not to get horrifically offended but call another cab. Seriously that guy has the right to have a religion and it's not like it should have been hard to find another cab. I feel sorry for the inconvenience to the woman but I feel like the man had the right to refuse service.

Which is the greater discrimination, not allowing a particular religion to have certain jobs or not allowing animals in cabs?

[Monica]

Which is the greater discrimination, not allowing a particular religion to have certain jobs or not allowing animals in cabs?

That particular dog is not just another animal. I would have to say disability comes before religion in this case. If the dog wasn't trained exceptionally well, it would not be a guide dog.

Should all blind people who use dogs in large cities have to walk everywhere? What if they also have leg problems? Anyway what kind of god is Allah that would have a muslim not help a disabled person? Jesus helped and healed them al the time. This is one of the dumb laws that people talk about finding in the Bible, but it's in the Koran this time... I'm sorry if that's a bit harsh, but really...

[MottZilla]

Dog's aren't allowed many places, however it is generally considered that seeing eye dogs are allowed in most places. While I agree with Breaker, I wouldn't want some dirty damn dog in my car, the problem is he didn't want her in the cab for RETARDED religious reasons. I'd understand if it were actually reasons that weren't retarded. I didn't know they didn't like dogs for religious reasons. I just thought they didn't like them cause they're pussys.

Anyways, my opinion is fuck his religion. This is indeed just like not agreeing with birth control and not doing your fucking job.

[Rainman]

I see no problems with this. I agree with the cab person in that the blind woman seemed pretty insensitive to the cabbie's culture.

Fun Fact: Mohammad loved cats. :)

[mikeron]

Everyone knows Hindu cab drivers are where it's at. WTF?

[Monica]

I see no problems with this. I agree with the cab person in that the blind woman seemed pretty insensitive to the cabbie's culture.

Fun Fact: Mohammad loved cats. :)

Was the driver insensative to her western culture, or, more importantly, her special need?

[AtmaWeapon]

Whoo boy lots of rage in this thread.

Monica I do believe you asked my opinion and I gave it, there's no need to attack my position though I will defend it.

Basically we have a conflict of rights here and most ethical theories have troubles in this area. We have two Constitutionally guaranteed rights in direct conflict here: The right to practice your religion without impediment The right to expect no discrimination based on your disabilitiesBoth of these rights should be upheld in all circumstances according to the Constitution. However, in this situation, any decision we make infringes one of these rights. So it is left to us to decide which one we hold higher.

So here's how I weigh it:
To me, religion is a cultural aspect and people cannot help their culture. This man was raised in a culture where contact with dogs would cause him considerable trouble and require effort to cleanse himself. You may think religion is stupid but whether you want to admit it or not you have cultural ideals that you would be uncomfortable with breaking as well.

To be fair, the woman's blindness is beyond her control as well, and she has the right to take her dog with her. The normal "no animals" restrictions are lifted for animals that assist the disabled, so she has the right to expect certain services.

However true her case may be, I find it hard to believe the woman could not find another taxi in the entire city that would be willing to take her on. If it turns out that no taxis in the city will carry her dog, then the appropriate course of action is to petition for some manner of public transit that is accessible to the blind.

This is your basic knee-jerk article that is reinforcing the bandwagon "OMG Muslims" stereotype that is all too common in the US. Monica, despite your beliefs I do believe Jesus never gave you the authority to persecute another based on their beliefs, nor does the Constitution grant you the authority to declare Muslim behavior wrong. We live in a multicultural society and have to respect each others' traditions so far as the law provides.

Mottzilla I didn't make it past your greengrocer's apostrophe, sorry.

I re-iterate my statement that the woman is reacting in a culturally-insensitive manner. The woman was barred entry to the cab because of her dog, not because of her blindness. The woman is exhibiting wrong behavior by exploiting her disability to turn this from a simple case of cultural misunderstanding to a discrimination case.

If religion is your stumbling block, I propose this analogous situation: several people are allergic to dogs. Some of them, like me, have asthma and other dangerous conditions that are triggered by allergies. So suppose this man is allergic to dogs and this allergy leads to severe discomfort at best. Is he required to allow this dog access into his vehicle?

Now consider that, by the religion he follows, allowing the dog into his car is akin to the discomfort caused by the allergic reaction. What is the difference between the two situations?

[Rainman]

Was the driver insensative to her western culture, or, more importantly, her special need?

She's the one that doesn't understand the other's culture. It's a matter of religious freedom. As for her "special need", the cabbie isn't her slave. He isn't required to do work for anyone. He suffers the consequences from a loss of a fair and, in this case, outrage from other potential fairs. He has no obligation to give her a ride. It may be a dick thing to do, but so are a lot of things that are done under the ideals of religion.

[Monica]

Ohh, I didn't mean to, like, attack you Atma, so I'm sorry if I did. :( I guess I can realistically put myself in her shoes so it came out fierce. I did ask for your opinion and thank you for it, I was just trying to disscuss/debate. ^^

Public transport jobs means you have to transport all types of people, including those who may bring conflict with your personal belief system, but that comes with the job. Which brings me to wonder how she came upon his cab in the first place? Did she call and they sent him over? Did he see her in the street, stop for her and then tell her she couldn't ride because of her dog? If she called is it really fair that she have to wait twice as long? If he stopped just to tell her she couldn't ride, that's pretty cruel, and she could have gotten another cab if he had just passed her by.

You're right, I never speak bad about another religeon's god, but it's said that God and Allah are the same, but I don't really believe that because they are too different. I'm sorry for saying that about Allah.

As for allergies, they'd be a little more reason to refuse a dog since allergies can hospitalize people, and I'd understand him then.

Since my religion says to love everyone and not to discriminate, I just can't imagine turning anyone down, actually...


She's the one that doesn't understand the other's culture. It's a matter of religious freedom. As for her "special need", the cabbie isn't her slave. He isn't required to do work for anyone. He suffers the consequences from a loss of a fair and, in this case, outrage from other potential fairs. He has no obligation to give her a ride. It may be a dick thing to do, but so are a lot of things that are done under the ideals of religion.

Fair point, but religious freedom on the job has limits, right? Teachers can't pray with the class at mealtime (we did in kindergarden) On the job you should be more professional. Suppose it was a Jew he turned down, would that also be religious freedom? He can change, he has a choice. She doesn't. Her life is probably difficult enough without that. :(

[Rainman]

Fair point, but religious freedom on the job has limits, right? Teachers can't pray with the class at mealtime (we did in kindergarden) On the job you should be more professional. Suppose it was a Jew he turned down, would that also be religious freedom? He can change, he has a choice. She doesn't. Her life is probably difficult enough without that. :(

Was this public transport? I can't really tell from the article, but it seems like it was privately owned. Private businesses have every right to discriminate since they aren't forcing their product on others. Discrimination is a double edged sword though so I don't see why any rational business person would do such. Teacher's can't pray with the class because the students are forced to be there and the teachers are public representatives of the state.

Rejecting a Jew would be more of a political protest, but it's still a freedom.

"He can change, he has a choice." That's fairly insensitive. You're a Christian. How much of a choice do you believe you have? His religion is obviously a huge part of his identity and he's not going to defy it for a fair.

[Monica]

Was this public transport? I can't really tell from the article, but it seems like it was privately owned. Private businesses have every right to discriminate since they aren't forcing their product on others. Discrimination is a double edged sword though so I don't see why any rational business person would do such. Teacher's can't pray with the class because the students are forced to be there and the teachers are public representatives of the state.

Rejecting a Jew would be more of a political protest, but it's still a freedom.

"He can change, he has a choice." That's fairly insensitive. You're a Christian. How much of a choice do you believe you have? His religion is obviously a huge part of his identity and he's not going to defy it for a fair.

Bleh, sorry, I meant compared to her he can change if he felt like it. She has no chance at all.

And I dunno if it was or not actually, someone just said so in the thread I got it from.

[MacWeirdo42]

To make things clear, the law was on her side. From the article:

The driver's refusal resulted in a court case because the law requires all licensed cab drivers to carry guide dogs. Magistrates at Marylebone fined Mr Majekodumni £200 and ordered him to pay £1,200 for failing to comply with regulations set out under the Disability Discrimination Act. After the case Mr Majekodunmi remained defiant and insisted that he would continue refusing passengers accompanied by guide dogs.
The fact that there's a law about this sort of thing kinda changes the situation, I think.

[AtmaWeapon]

Monica put yourself in the man's shoes rather than the woman's shoes, from the nature of your questions I think this is where your confusion stems from. Since you can personally relate to the woman's condition, you must be careful not to bias your judgement.

Christianity, when practiced properly, is a pretty tolerant religion so it is hard for me to make a direct analogy. So for a moment imagine that somewhere in the Bible God has declared that dogs are unclean creatures, and contact with a dog makes a man unclean. This carried various consequences that usually included inability to participate in society until certain periods of time had passed and certain sacrifices had been made. To give an example of God's treatment of unclean entities, consider Leviticus 12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=12&version=31).

After giving birth, a pregnant woman must avoid anything sacred for a period of up to two weeks and 66 days depending on the sex of the child. After this, she must bring animals to the priests for offerings to remove her unclean status. Obviously this shows that being unclean causes places pretty severe restrictions and responsibilities upon an individual.

I cannot speak with authority on the practices of Muslims with regard to contact with dogs, but I can assume that since God's laws seem pretty harsh Allah's laws will be likewise.

Furthermore, cab services are typically not entities of the state nor are they public transportation, meaning they have the right to discriminate among their customers as they wish. There would still be outcry had the man refused services to a Jew, but if the Muslim faith held Jews to be unclean I would still believe he was not acting wrongly.

All things aside, there is a single action the man could have done that I think would have reduced the fallout here: call for another cab. This simple act would show that while he could not offer his services for religious obligations, he was sensitive enough to the woman's condition to still assist her.

Basically, I believe to charge the man with discrimination you must first prove with reasonable evidence that Islam is a false religion. I can no more prove that Islam is false than I can prove that Christianity is true; it is a fallacy to attempt to use logic on issues of faith. If we cannot prove that Islam is a false religion, we must support the idea that if his religious convictions restrict his contact with dogs then he acted with no regard to the woman's disability. If the woman's disability was not part of his decision to reject the dog, we can say that she was not discriminated against.

It is a very tricky issue though, the kind of thing that is fun to think about from different angles.

*EDIT UPDATE*
Oh in light of MacWeirdo's point my opinion has reversed. If the man was legally required to carry guide dogs, then he only has three courses of action: Join with like-minded individuals in an attempt to have the law changed Get a job that does not leave him legally obligated to participate in activities he is religiously obligated to avoid. Live in a place where laws follow a more traditional Muslim life.Some people would question my law over religion stance, but I strongly believe that in a society that allows citizens to shape the law, the law will be shaped by the cultures within the society. Thus, without law religion is threatened and law is shaped by religion. They are interconnected.

His religion-based refusal is valid but now ethically wrong since it defies the laws of the society in which he lives.

[MottZilla]

Atma, if you didn't make it very far through my first post, then it worked. My opinion is simple. Fuck him. Boot his ass out of here. Fuck his culture. If he wants his culture he can go live somewhere else. His ancestors didn't fight for this country or anything. Plus he's a cab driver, so that's another reason to say fuck him.

Oh and he thinks dogs are impure, another reason to hang him. Real dogs are awesome.

[Monica]

I didn't see that there was any more to the article...:sweat: Thanks Mac. And it looks like I got my answer about how she came in contact with the cab...


Niven's and Co cab company, is contracted by the BBC and the minicab was sent to take her home from a studio after she was invited to appear on News 24.

So it was public and it was sent for her at a TV station. Nice...>_<

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408912&in_page_id=1770 <--- Full Article

[AtmaWeapon]

Atma, if you didn't make it very far through my first post, then it worked. My opinion is simple. Fuck him. Boot his ass out of here. Fuck his culture. If he wants his culture he can go live somewhere else. His ancestors didn't fight for this country or anything. Plus he's a cab driver, so that's another reason to say fuck him.

Oh and he thinks dogs are impure, another reason to hang him. Real dogs are awesome.Well what nation did your ancestors hail from Mott because honestly if it wasn't England then they didn't fight for this country either :confused: Your opinion is pretty bigoted and honestly I wish you'd not be so quick to claim different = wrong (though if this is all sarcasm then it's OK just poorly done)

Also it didn't happen in America so pardon me while I AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Breaker]

Also it didn't happen in America so pardon me while I AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I was thinking the same thing.

[mikeron]

Well, I guess that if you hate dogs or black people, you can't fulfill your dreams of being a cabbie. In other news, Muslims probably shouldn't go for that big job in the bacon factory, either. Jesus Christ.

[Lilith]

Hay guyz, one out of thousands or millions of muslim cab drivers was off his rocker. Let's slam his politically inconvient religion instead of just punching him for being a douche. It really shows you've ever been in a highly populated area or rode in a goddamn cab.