Love advice?

[Beldaran]

I'm soliciting relationship advice from a bunch of nerds, many of whom are younger than me (me = 24). How sad.:D Still, I think some ideas would be interesting to hear, and even if I don't take anything to heart, it would be nice to share these thoughts with someone other than that handsome devil who lives in my mirror.

Here's the rundown: I have a girlfriend. I like my girlfriend. She's probably the sweetest, most supportive, and nice girl I've known. She has great character. I love her.

Our physical chemistry is poor. It's just... not good. It isn't that I'm not attracted to her. She's cute. I just don't desire her physically. I don't feel sparks when we kiss. We are out of sync chemically or something. The sex is uninspiring. I'm always attracted to other girls I see and I feel physically unsatisfied.

Also, I am hopelessly in love with her friend. Like, out of this world chest crushing love. I'll never do or say anything about it because this girl and I are totally incompatible for various reasons (and also I have no chance), but I think it says something about my current relationship that I'm passionately in love with someone else, even if it's just a brief, intense infatuation.

So the question is this:

I have a relationship that is ideal and wonderful intellectually and personally, but with no passion. Do I pull the plug now? Or string it out until the inevitable messy divorce and fling noire with my secretary? What would you do?

We have been dating for a little over six months.

[Prrkitty]

Ultimately... sex isn't everything in a relationship. Honestly only you can decide if how the relationship is now... is something that you think you can be happy with for the rest of your life.

And even then... nothing is written in stone. I thought my first marriage would last forever. It didn't.

So try to be realistic when you think about things for your future.
<hug> good luck hon...

[MottZilla]

It sounds to me like you should end it. While I agree with Prrkitty that sex isn't everything in a relationship, at your age I doubt you'd deal well with not getting what you want there, and unless you can change that with her somehow, then you might be better off moving on. You should probably try to make certain that there isn't anything you can do to fix the problem before you go about trying to end things. And if there is no hope in that seeing how otherwise you are so great together otherwise perhaps you can find a way to go back to being just friends somehow. One thing to do first would be to try talking to her about your concerns.

[AtmaWeapon]

Well this is a pickle but perhaps by answering a few more questions the path may become more clear.

First have you ever been in another relationship before? If so then ask yourself if you were physically satisified in that relationship. What was different about it that seemed to make you happier with it? If you were not satisfied in that relationship then I'd be willing to suggest that perhaps the problem is not with the women but with some need you have that has yet to be discovered. If that's the case then I say talk to your girlfriend ASAP because you two have some work to do to find what is missing.

Second, ask yourself how important this physical satisifaction is when compared to the intellectual and personal aspects of the relationship. Every person holds these aspects with different weights, and it may be that you value the intellectual or personal relationship more than you give credit for at the moment.

If it turns out the passion is important to you then you need to have a talk with the current girl. You need to explain your problem and one of two things will happen: she'll decide to experiment with things to find out why the passion isn't there or she'll decide to bail. This is technically a win-win situation, as I will explain.

People treat relationships (whether they admit it or not) much like business deals. There are sacrifices made to maintain the relationship and in return benefits come from the relationship. Each person has some cost/benefit function they subconsciously use to determine whether the relationship is worth maintaining or not. As proof I submit the girl you love but do not pursue due to incompatibilities. Perhaps without realizing it, you compared the benefits of companionship with this woman to the costs of dealing with her personality and decided that the costs outweight the benefits.

Communication is very important in relationships, as is honesty. You must tell your current girlfriend the situation as soon as possible. This gives her the ability to reconsider her evaluation of your relationship and decide if she would like to try harder to satisfy the needs you feel are not being provided. If she decides this is not desirable, then she is as incompatible with you as the girl whose personality is not desirable, since she will not satisfy all of the requirements of the relationship. If all of your requirements are not met, eventually the relationship will fail.

I would not suggest a harsh breakup with the current girlfriend, as it seems like the two of you could (to use a cliche) just be friends with no problems. It could be that the appropriate relationship between you two is that of friendship, not matrimony. Six months is honestly a pretty short-term relationship so don't feel trapped or obligated to perform a role you are not obligated to perform.

My explanation may sound harsh and unfeeling but honestly I feel like most unhappy couples today start out this way: either one or both partners feel like the other is "close enough" or that they can "adjust for this one thing". Some things you can adjust for or get used to, but if anything in a relationship is causing you enough turmoil to be unsure whether you should maintain the relationship it is time to talk with the other member immediately. If a breakup occurs, consider that dropping the "boyfriend/girlfriend" roles from the relationship will alter what you expect out of the relationship and probably remove the problems.

Finally, don't look at my suggestion as some kind of sexist "She needs to put out or get out" statement. The "change or leave" sentiment is definitely there, but its basis is on relationship theory rather than any expectations of favors by any party. My suggestions would be the same if you were a woman asking advice about men, or if you were upset because she was an excellent sexual partner but had a personality you despised. As others have said, sex is not everything in a relationship, but if you find you get to the point that you cannot be happy unless she performs acts she is unwilling to perform you will both benefit from a separation. If you are not getting what you want out of a relationship you have to communicate the need to the other individual. If they are not willing to satisfy the need then the relationship must be modified such that the need is no longer there. In your case, if it turns out to be some kind of physical act she is unwilling to do, I feel like the most mature and least damaging thing to do is modify your relationship such that passion is no longer expected (i.e. become "friends" instead of "boyfriend/girlfriend"). Removing this expectation will most likely solve the problem.

In summary: Talk to her honestly about this subject. You both need to agree whether this is a problem or not. If you think this will turn out messy now, perform a utilitarian comparison between a messy breakup and a divorce and I think you'll agree it's better to stop now than later. Figure out why you don't feel passion; if it's something she is or is not doing, talk to her honestly about this subject. If she does not wish to do what you need it is better for you two to redefine your relationship. Talk to her about this problem immediately. Triple redundancy really doesn't place enough emphasis on this suggestion. Every single fight I have had with my fiancee has been over a misunderstanding of expectations and a lack of communication of the misunderstanding.

*edit* I decided to add this in because I've been one-sided: when you do talk with her, make sure to ask if she is feeling unsatisfied in any way as well. If she is unsatisfied and you have no issues with making the changes she has requested, by all means you should make an effort to make said changes. Remember, she is performing cost/benefit on you just as you are evaluating her. It is not impossible that you feel no passion because she puts no feeling into her acts because she feels you are not providing something else she needs. This can only be discovered through honest, non-confrontational conversation.

Establish a ground rule before discussion: If, at any point during honest conversation, either of you begins to get angry, terminate the discussion until a later time. When you are angry you act irrationally and can do irreversible damage by saying things best left unsaid. If either of you begins a contest of "well what about the time you did..." you need to stop the discussion and start it again another day. Act not in anger. Ever. I have failed to learn this lesson many times.

Now I have to go and correct a pot -> kettle -> black issue in my life, thank you good sir.

*off-topic edit* Ahahah epic post widens the table I've got to start losing weight!

[Modus Ponens]

As Atma said, communication is key. Furthermore, it would probably be very, very helpful if you could try very hard to put your finger on what exactly it is about her that dissatisfies you. If you can, then it could help you understand yourself a lot better, which would be very useful in any event.

[Dechipher]

Just whack it hella lot and hope that works.

Is she not adventurous for you? Maybe trying some new things in the bedroom will help...

[moocow]

Tell her to bend over and bite a pillow, then try again.

Seriously though, if you're unhappy in your relationship in anyway, and it's because of something that can't change, then you should end it...

[Archibaldo]

You should wait a tad longer. Maybe this is just a phase and in a little while it may get better. I'd give it about a month. After that if you still don't feel sparks, end it. Don't wait too long to end it though because the longer you wait the more it will hurt her. After it's over, forget about her and her friend. It will just cause problems. Unless you wish to stay friends with this girl, if you do, then her friend is definitely not attainable.

So either you move on completely and forget about her and her friend, if you do decide to end it, or stay friends with the girl and ignore the feelings for the friend.

[Beldaran]

Wow, some excellent comments and advice. Atma gets super points for writing so much and being so insightful. Riverman gets extra bonus double points for being someone I know in real life who is awesome. Arhibaldo gets galactic power pizza points for having an Al Yankovic avatar. Moocow gets inverted hyper-atomic electron points for being a woman. Everyone else gets 5 points for playing.

I will consider these issues carefully. Some clarifications:

There is not some wierd sex thing that she "won't do" that is making things bad. I just meant that the chemistry is not good. I don't know how else to explain that.

The friend I'm in love with: I have no plans of pursuing that. She's graduating at the end of this year and moving back to Houston, I will be here for a couple more years. She's a devout christian, I am an atheist. She's dating someone else. This will never happen. I know that. I just consider my feelings to be factually relevant in that it says something about my current relationship.

I'm not sure what I'll do yet, but I appreciate everyone taking time to share their thoughts.

[{DSG}DarkRaven]

This was sort of like the situation I was in with my first girlfriend, minus all the sex, of course.

At any rate, we connected well and communicated constantly for many months. We found each other attractive, and when we finally met (this was an e-relationship), things went fine, but I slowly started to realize I wasn't as attracted to her as I thought I was. In a very short while, I found myself much less attracted to her than I initially was.

Now, I've got nothing against heavier girls. Generally speaking, the ones I'm genuinely interested end up being a little further from the skinny side of the gene pool. This girl was a bit further than that, which I had known, and was fine with. I wasn't turned off by her looks at all. I was turned off by her personality.

When I met her in person, I saw a side of her I had not seen before. A secretive, self-loathing, embarrased side, all directly rooted in her own personal image. She hated the way she looked, plain and simple. I can understand not liking your appearance if you're overweight, but this girl went a step beyond simply not liking to look in the mirror.

Since I was in the depths of swooning puppy love, I looked upon her with adoring eyes, and found no fault in her looks. She wouldn't have it. Compliments? Met with strange looks and snarky comments. Romantic gestures? Met with distant body language and forced cooperation. She not only lacked the ability to see herself as beautiful, but she had so brainwashed herself into the ugly mindset that she couldn't even allow others to see her as attractive.

And then she dumped me the day after Christmas. Long story short. Yeah.

At any rate, as Atma suggests, what you're feeling might be mutual, and you should absolutely pursue the truth of the situation. If you discover she's feeling the same, that may not solve the problem, but at least you'll have two heads to work on the issue. Remember, being in, love with someone implies twice that it is a cooperative effort, akin to leaning back to back with someone. If your partner does not put forth equal effort, both of you will fall to the ground.

At the very least, talking about things and taking some time to process them will allow you to break things off (if need be) amicably. Friendship may not be possible, but a nasty break up may be avoidable.

[Modus Ponens]

Arhibaldo gets galactic power pizza points ...

Man, I want pizza points....

[Beldaran]

Riverman gets soggy rhinosaurus turd pizza points with wolfgang droppings on them.

There. You wanted pizza points, right?

[moocow]

Moocow gets inverted hyper-atomic electron points for being a woman.

Sweet. Can I turn them in for an Earth shattering orgasm, or do I need more points for all that?

[Jigglysaint]

I am actually in the exact opposite kind of relationship. The girl I am seeing is kind, sweet, supportive, and is so hot that I can't stop thinking about her. We go well together, I am suportive of her needs, and she looks out for mine to the best of her ability. We both believe in sex after marrage, but I am sure that if we had done it, it would be awesome.

However, she has an intellectualy disability, and thus on many levels(not all), she is slow and I can't connect to her intellectually. I also have another friend whom I connect excellently on that level, but feel no attraction towards.

I think that the most important thing is that sexual chemestry. A relationship is about love, and if you don't desire you partner, then it's harder to feel that special bond that most couples have. On the other hand, a person who is intellectually on par with your level is also important, because otherwise half your conversations will involve you lowering yourself to a more child-like level. With my relationship, I must consider my girlfriend cannot grasp certain concepts, no can understand big words. It is not that she can't learn anything, it's just that she is slow, since parts of her brain are litterally dead since birth. Lately we have nothing to talk about. I can't talk about video games, computers, religion, politics, or other special interest catagories. Most of the time we talk about her, her life, and her problems. To be honest, I like that. I am interesting in the psyche of the intellectaully challenged mind, and alongside our relationship(we really do go well together, as my strengths are her weaknesses, and vice versa), I am looking into her to see how things are. Most of the time it's because I want to know how to better intereact with her so I can be a better friend, but also it's helpful because I also have a family member who is disabled as well, and knowing how to handle him would be helpful in perhaps result in better cross-family communication. I think of myself as an unoffical advocate for the disabled, and like people for who they are. I don't judge a person because they have trouble reading or speaking. It is my life, even though it is not my job.

However, I do crave more intellectual stimulation. I have friends at church who can help me with that, family that I can talk to, and other friends on which to communicate on those levels. What I can't do, however, is feel sexuall attracted to a married woman at church, my own mother, or most of my friends. I am lucky because both needs are met, although by different people.

I would say that yes, perhaps let her go as a girlfriend. It's wonderful you have that connection, but it won't go any further if you don't desire or lust after her. It's funny, but two people who may be exactly the same, one you are not attracted to, and the other you are. She's not the one.

[cyberkitten]

if the sex issue is on your mind enough that you're askin advice about it, i'm gonna guess that you're never going to be satisfied just being with her. not that relationships are all about sex, but they are a big part and if you're not happy, it'll eventually bleed thru into the rest of your relationship.

[Lilith]

lol you wouldn't be asking if you weren't already planning on ending it. do it.

[SUCCESSOR]

You can't force sexual attraction. Faking it doesn't work for guys. Thinking of someone else has never once worked for me.

End it. If you have a great connection with the person hope that it's enough to secure a long-time friendship.


speaking of which I just had some damned good sex. Mmmm... 69in' baby!

[Love For Fire]

If the attraction issue bothers you, ending it might be the way to go. Not all relationships are about sex, but maybe at this age, sex/physical attraction is a lot more important to you than it will be down the road.

I must say this though: make a decision and follow through. Don't be half leaning toward something, and either lose the relationship and then still want her, or be stuck in a relationship you want to lose. Six months is a long time, but 12 is even longer.

I feel physical attraction is quite important to a relationship. The personality must be there as well, and it's nice to have someone on your intellectual level. You can still have your friends and work budddies and such for deep philosophical conversations, but no woman would be understanding of you sleeping around because the chemistry just ain't right.

As for mind wandering and hopelessly fantasing of these crazy scenarios, it's just a guy thing. Instinct I guess. I love my girlfriend in all aspects, and we've been together for 3 years... but men will still be men, so don't feel too bad about it.

[Archibaldo]

A relationship with no sexual attraction is a marriage simulation of 35 years.

[Starkist]

Polygamy is your only recourse.

Seriously though, you either love this girl enough to stick it out despite these issues, or you have to look at holding out for someone better suited for you.