Cops entering your house. [Archive] - Armageddon Games Forums

ctrl-alt-delete

07-19-2006, 05:07 PM

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourth amendment of the constitution. Now, if they tell you to open the door, you have to.

If the cops have been called to the house, they can enter it. (Probable cause.) Cops can bend any situation to say there was probable cause, so you are pretty much screwed.

Edit: The way I typed that made it hard to understand.

moocow

07-19-2006, 05:38 PM

If the cops have been called to the house, they can enter it. (Probable cause.) Cops can bend any situation to say there was probable cause, so you are pretty much screwed.

I was gonna say that earlier, but for some reason I couldn't remember "probable cause" and it was pissing me off, so I gave up.

Rainman

07-19-2006, 06:11 PM

The supreme court has made up a nifty "no knock" warrant that allows police to just bust in. It's just one of the rights infringements brought on by the war on drugs.

so if a cop knocks on the door, and says "open the door, it's the police" or whatever, I can just say "no go away" and not be violating any laws?

Ask for a warrant first (perferrably make him slide it under the door). If they have it check it to see if it's legit. It should say the place to be searched and the things they are looking for. They should also have on there who is accusing you of having whatever crime. Of course this is assuming the cops are playing by the rules.

Glitch

07-19-2006, 06:14 PM

Open the door, walk outside and talk to them. They cannot go inside without you letting them in.

MottZilla

07-19-2006, 06:22 PM

If the cops just burst in unannounced and don't say anything and you either can't see them or can't identify they are police, you have every reason to shoot them. And I hope that happens too. Maybe then they'll realize that bursting into someone's home unannounced is a bad idea. And I wouldn't feel bad for the dead cops one bit. Fuck anyone that breaks into someone else's home. Unless this person was really don't something bad ofcourse. But I don't think that suddenly busting into the place is gonna let you catch anyone that you wouldn't have caught otherwise.

Really this just shows how much more Nazi our government is getting.

Rainman

07-19-2006, 06:46 PM

The whole burst in thing, I think, is so the suspects don't flush drugs down the drain or something. Plus, it might catch people off guard if they are armed/in reach of firearms. It's all a drug war thing. Plus it gives them the excuse to bust down a door which I imagine is rather exhilarating for the cops.

Eckels

07-19-2006, 09:12 PM

Police cannot randomly search houses. This is where a warrant comes in.

However, the following situations are all ones in which they wouldn't need a warrant to enter your house.

If you call the police.
If someone else calls the police on you.
If you invite them into your house.
If they chase a suspect into your house.

They're not supposed to search, per se, during their visit, however.
BUT
If they police were to clearly see illegal contraband, whether it be drugs, guns, or any sort of illegal activity out in the open, while visiting your residence during any of the situations listed above, they would be correct to arrest you and put you in prison. They dont have the right to search the rest of the house.

Police do have the right to knock on doors and ask questions. (just like salesmen, and jehovah's witnesses) You don't have to invite them into your home, but at the same time, if they're standing at your door and they see two handguns and a pile of blow on your coffee table, you can count on it that you're going to jail. Warrant or no warrant.

Rainman

07-19-2006, 10:07 PM

If someone else calls the police on you

I don't think so. Police can't enter without your permission unless there is an immediate crime or if they are immediately pursuing a suspect. That would be pretty crazy if heresay could allow warrantless searches. It might allow a warranted search though.

{DSG}DarkRaven

07-19-2006, 11:11 PM

If the cops just burst in unannounced and don't say anything and you either can't see them or can't identify they are police, you have every reason to shoot them.

Uh, what is "the best way to get yourself riddled with bullets?" I'll take Stupid Mistakes for $800, Alex.

Police operate under the aforementioned probable cause and the unmentioned (I think) plain sight. Most of this you can easily learn by watching an episode of CSI. If they hear screaming inside, if they suspect someone is hurt, if they see something suspicious, it's completely within the law. And frankly, I have no problem with this, considering that I'm a law abiding citizen. Most of the time, cops only bust into your house if you're obviously doing something illegal.

Rainman

07-19-2006, 11:36 PM

You are only a law-abiding citizen insofar as the government defines you as such. Besides, if you are innocent then do you think you deserve to be raided at the whim of the police force? As CAD quoted in the constitution, you have the right to be secure in your "houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" It's your (or your parents) property and the government has no right to just barge in unless it's obvious someone is in danger.

Dechipher

07-20-2006, 02:03 AM

It only takes a second to get a search warrant from what I understand.

EDIT: Is this the same friend who told you he was dizzy three weeks after smoking pot?

MottZilla

07-20-2006, 03:00 AM

You can't get a search warrent without a decent reason though. You can't just say, I feel like searching billy's house, I'll go get a warrent.

DarkRaven, what are you talking about? The police will only shoot you if you don't shoot them first, or realize who they are before they shoot you. Plus if you lie down flat on the ground, they can't shoot you. Or if you have your back turned. Investigations show where you were shot from so they can't just say you were pointing a gun at them and you shot them. You have to have been shot facing a certain way and such. Anyways, my main point is that anyone that breaks in should be shot, cause thats fucked up Nazi shit. And by accepting it you realize it sets up a step for them to go even more Nazi on you. And see like Rainman said, just because you're innocent/law abiding doesn't mean you won't get raided/arrested. Even innocent people get convicted. Think about that. You may think you'll never have a problem with the law. But that's what many others thought who were later put in prison.

By the way Eckels, you could have 5 handguns, 7 machineguns, 8 rockets and a rocket launcher, the cops can't arrest you for that. Only if you have something that you don't have a license to have (such as machine guns, explosives). However you can easily obtain the required license to have a machine gun, and the cop can't say or do a thing about it. He has to beat it and go eat some donuts.

At most he could ask if you have permits (depending on weapon class) or if the weapon is registered. You just say yes. If he asks to see it, you are free to tell him no. Tell him to go look it up, it's not your job to show him when it's in your own home and you didn't do shit.

Anyways, just remember cops always like it when you answer the door with guns in holsters on your legs, one machinegun with a strap so it's hanging over your shoulder, etc. Oh and wear a bandana thing over your face like a cowboy/terrorist/robber.

The cops shouldn't be bothering you really, and if they do you should definitely understand what to do and how to do it. For one you should make sure you let them know you know your rights and won't let them fuck with you.

punkonjunk1024

07-20-2006, 03:16 AM

Verman

07-20-2006, 08:02 AM

If they saw him in the home they could... But other then that only if they are called that he is there and then let in the house. Almost like vampires in the original buffy movie. hah. Probable cause is always fought out on the court room floor by the lawyers, meaning thats when the jury decides if the cops should have went in or not. I think even a judge can decide that.

Its always a smart thing to be nice to the police, cause think about it, if your an asshole cocky bitch to them they are going to find something or someway to get at you. So you usually should play nice ;) Also police like to bully and use the fact that the common folk know nothing about the law so alot of the things they get away with they do because a person just doesn't know any better.

best thing to do when confronted by the police, don't say a damned word... hah.

Oh yeah, when they get a kick warrent you know its the cops because they scream it when they run in the door and have it all over the cloths they are wearing. It wouldn't be some murderer because there are alot easier ways to kill someone then kick in the door while screaming "POLICE" and rushing them.

;).. meh all in fun. Go find the state criminal code and take a look at it. In canada even if they saw him in there while they were for example going by the house they would have to have unconditional proof before running in. *shrug*

Its a job remember, and most do it the best they can... Some of course get a little annoying but meh!

Eckels

07-20-2006, 08:55 AM

I don't think so. Police can't enter without your permission unless there is an immediate crime or if they are immediately pursuing a suspect. That would be pretty crazy if heresay could allow warrantless searches. It might allow a warranted search though.

I should have been more clear. It really depends on the call. For something like a noise disturbance, no, the police cannot enter. For something like a neighbor hearing someone yell "HELP HELP" as in a domestic disturbance, or hearing gunshots, the police can enter warrantless. And again, I'm not talking about searches - I'm talking about entering. Searching is a different creature. The original question was about entering a house.

By the way Eckels, you could have 5 handguns, 7 machineguns, 8 rockets and a rocket launcher, the cops can't arrest you for that. Only if you have something that you don't have a license to have (such as machine guns, explosives). However you can easily obtain the required license to have a machine gun, and the cop can't say or do a thing about it.
I'm not aware of available licenses for Rockets and Rocket launchers (i'm sure some state may allow them, but NY sure doesn't and I'm sure most don't.), nor am I aware of licenses to carry cocaine, as was the real point of my earlier comment. If the police see a drug lab in your living room, during the course of a visit, they're going to take you down. They'll probably call for backup first, but they won't have to call for permission.

Archibaldo

07-20-2006, 12:02 PM

Of what I know,for the searching anyway, if it's in plain sight they don't need a warrant. i.e., if you have a maeth lab in the same room as your front door. Then they can bust you for it, because well, it's right there. How ever, if your meth lab is in the basement and the police have no reason for going down there, then they can't go down there. Just like in the trash. They can't sift through your trash, but if something, a clue maybe I dunno, is lying right on top on the trash then yeah they can bag it.

But any who, I'm sure that if they have a suspiscion that some one is getting hurt they can barge right in. But the police generally don't barge right in. I don't know how correct they portray it on CSI. But the police always knock first and if they don't open up and the police hear a disturbance going on inside, then they can barge in or whatever.

MottZilla

07-20-2006, 12:04 PM

Haha, no, it was a different friend.

The problem is that I'm violating a restraining order, often, and I'm wondering if I a cop can just come in my house if they suspect that he's here. It looks like yes, here.
His mom got the restraining order... because she's insane.
Long, stupid story.
But yeah.

Restraining orders I'm pretty sure don't include your home. If whoever has the order against you is outside/near/or in your home, that's not your fault. No one can expect you to leave your home to obey a retarded order. Unless you were like some kind of pedophile or serial killer.

punkonjunk1024

07-20-2006, 02:17 PM

uh, I like the guy who has a restraining order on me. His mom filed it, so that we couldn't hang out, because she's convinced I'm a chomo and I'm trying to turn everyone in her family into a racist homosexual.
He's not home about 80% of the time, and I'm wondering if he was at my house, and his mom suspected he was there (which she always does anyhow) if I cop can come in to see if he's here. Either way I could spend enough time distracting him at the door to get the kid out the bathroom window. There would be nothing illegal in my house except that kid. Nothing clearly illegal, anyhow.

{DSG}DarkRaven

07-20-2006, 05:56 PM

Anyways, my main point is that anyone that breaks in should be shot, cause thats fucked up Nazi shit. And by accepting it you realize it sets up a step for them to go even more Nazi on you. And see like Rainman said, just because you're innocent/law abiding doesn't mean you won't get raided/arrested. Even innocent people get convicted. Think about that. You may think you'll never have a problem with the law. But that's what many others thought who were later put in prison.

They obviously can't shoot you if you're lying down or turned away from them. But if you start unloading on them the moment they get in the door, they have every right to defend themselves by shooting back with lethal force. Police must announce themselves prior to entering, even if they just shout it before barging in. And as long as they have a warrant, it doesn't matter if you've seen it or not, there is no legal recourse for opening fire on a police officer, period.

And apart from sort of catastrophic mistake on the part of the police, being a completely law abiding citizen does mean that I won't get arrested or raided. If I don't give a reason for the police to break my door down, they won't. And calling police Nazi's because they don't ring the doorbell and ask pretty please before they enter into a home where illegal activities are going on or are suspected to be going on is pretty retarded. Makes you sound like a nutjob conspiracy theorist, FYI.

Eckels is right about rocket launchers, those are pretty illegal, as are most explosives beyond a certain size, quantity, or purpose. You don't hunt pheasant with a LAW or a Stinger, nor do you protect your home with a flamethrower. It all falls under the plain sight rule that I mentioned earlier, in regards to searches, like he mentioned. If a cop can smell pot from the driveway or a meth lab, or if he can see the containers for the required chemicals sitting on the curb, he has every right to call for backup and take your door off the hinges. Similarly, if you answer the door for a policeman after a neighbor makes a call about a domestic disturbance, even if the neighbor is wrong but the cop see's a pipe with a fuse on your kitchen table, he can come right in and make arrests.

Dechipher

07-20-2006, 07:52 PM

uh, I like the guy who has a restraining order on me. His mom filed it, so that we couldn't hang out, because she's convinced I'm a homo and I'm trying to turn everyone in her family into a racist homosexual.

Why would she think that?

MottZilla

07-20-2006, 10:05 PM

No it doesn't. It makes me sound concerned about giving the government too much power. Concerned about the rights of individuals. Plus you should have gotten the hint by now, the government no longer bails its citizens out. Infact you shouldn't count on the government for anything. They have more than proven in the recent years that if shit hits the fan you're on your own. All the government does now is tell you what to do and tax you.

Also, you are wrong. You can have things such as grenade launchers with the right paperwork. You can also have things like dynamite.

{DSG}DarkRaven

07-21-2006, 12:17 AM

Dynamite has a legitimate use, Mott. Rocket and grenade launchers do not. They are for killing, nothing more, nothing less. So show me a legal channel to obtain either of them without being in the military, and I'll apologize for not believing you.

The government bails plenty of people out all the time. Just because all you seem to remember are the recent failures that were highlighted on your local news doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of thousands of people who are being helped by the federal system. If you want a government that does everything for you, go live in a communist or socialist country. But since you seem to hate that idea, stick around the good old USA, where the government doesn't control everything, and suck it up. The feds aren't all powerful, and they never have been. The president doesn't just snap his fingers to lower gas prices, win wars, catch criminals, and replace massive metropolitan areas. The government is run by people, not wizards.

MottZilla

07-21-2006, 12:33 AM

I'll have to find out where it was from a friend, but you can indeed buy things such as grenade launchers legally. And no, they are NOT just for killing. Just like regular guns.

The government is supposed to protect its citizens, as we are ALL supposed to be the government. But the fact is the government is so far removed from the people now, and the current leadership is so shitty, you cannot count on it. I'd love to stick around the good old USA, let me know when you find it. Cause this shit ain't it. If there were any justice, I should be allowed to stab Bush to death with a regular dining room fork. I'm from the people who made this country so great, and unfortunately they are dead now, thus I should be allowed to deliver the ass kicking for them. I hardly think what was fought for back then was this bullshit. I know if I had been them I'd be pissed at this shit.

punkonjunk1024

07-21-2006, 12:37 AM

whoa whoa whoa... if we're gonna get into it, I think the problem is with cops, more than the system. That's the idea that I got, anyhow.
I lost 100% of respect for cops when this dirty, dirty pig pulled us over for virtually nothing. Our car broke down, and we had to roll it down a hill into town. We rolling stopped a stop sign, and it was CLEARLY being pushed and shit, and he pulled us over anyhow. One of our friends had a warrant for his arest, so he was nailed... but the cop seemed really nice. It was me, chris, and lanette, this chick I know, in the car, and he searched all of us... Me and chris, the standard back of the hand. Lanette, in a short skirt, was asked if she had any pockets. She told him no, but that didn't stop him from completely and obviously copping a feel.
He seemed like a really, really nice guy.
I basically almost killed him, because at the time, lanette and I were pretty close.

I hate the fact that it's so easy for slimy, disgusting individuals to become the inforcers of our laws, supposedly, to keep morals in line.

Why would she think that?
Uh, is that sarcasm? She's completely insane. One of her kids got suspended for bringing a toy gun to school and pretending to shoot kids with it, so she brought it to school during the meeting about it and waved it around at teachers.
She also moved out of three cities because she felt that the ENTIRE city was out to get her for her race.
She's uh... Off her rocker, a bit. The guy I hang out with is 17, and pretty normal for what she puts him through. HE is the guy who smoked the funny weed.
She's filed 4 orders on me, 2 went through. I don't know how she got 2 on me for the same person, but whatever. The only problem with it is that you can search my name on wisconsin courts and a restraining order for child molestation comes up as gone through... and I think it'll still come up when the order is complete, too. THat could effect my ability to get a job.
That and the fact that she sited my molestation as a child as a motive for molesting her kids. I went batshit insane when I read that she'd sited that in her statement, as it was before I'd told anyone, ever, ever about the incedent. I realize it's stupid to be sensitive about, and that kinda blew it out of the water anyhow.
Whoa too much information.

{DSG}DarkRaven

07-21-2006, 01:08 AM

slothman

07-21-2006, 06:58 PM

Yes the gov't could get worse; that doesn't affect our discussion.
It could get better too.

A legitimate use for a grenade launcher could be for fun.
Just like shooting targets.
You may not use it for any other reason but that is still a good one.

MacWeirdo42

07-21-2006, 07:43 PM

Targets? Boring... Oh man, there's got to be a non-combat use for a grenade launcher. Great, now I'm going to devote large portions of my brain to figuring this out. Ha, got it. Replace the grenades with bug bombs - kill cockroaches and fire ants from a safe distance. I'd sign up to be an exterminator just for the fun of it.

Dechipher

07-21-2006, 10:19 PM

How about protection?

From asteroids or something..

MottZilla

07-21-2006, 10:23 PM

Mott, we could debate for weeks about exactly how bad the government is or isn't, but regardless of the fact that it's not the best we've ever had, it is certainly possible that it could be a whole lot worse, and if it were as bad as you seem to suggest, I don't think we'd be spending our free time debating it on the internet in the comfort of our own homes.

And tell me a legitimate purpose for a grenade launcher besides combat, if you please. I'm dying to hear this.

Funny you should say that. I'm not in the comfort of my own home. Storm systems knocked out our power over 2 days ago. I'm only online when I can visit somewhere that still has electricity.

And ofcourse things could be worse, but my point is that you shouldn't be satisfied with what we are getting now and everyone should be pushing for better.

Archibaldo

07-21-2006, 10:49 PM

Pojo, couldn't you sue your friends mom for accusing you of being a child molester, assuming you're not one? If it can seriously affect you getting a job, you may want to take action. All those reasons you listed are legit excuses to sue her. Accusing some one of being a child molester is very severe. You should at least talk to a lawyer or something.

Lilith

07-22-2006, 06:25 AM

fuck da police

Aegix Drakan

07-22-2006, 01:55 PM

/me raises the WTF flag

your friend's mom is absolutly insane. she thinks you are out to poison her son's mind against her race, so she accuses you of child molestation, using your abuse as a child as an excuse?

2 words for this.

BULL-SHIT

Seriously. sounds like she's not only out to mess up her family, it's beginning to sound like she's out to wreck your life too. I suggest you talk to a lawyer about this. If you can get those false charges dropped, it would really help you.

of course...then she might try to shoot you or something after that. I think she needs a vacation in a Pshych (SP?) ward.