View Full Version : Overworld Warping System Deliberation:

07-17-2006, 06:40 PM
http://users.sephiroth.ws/ST/zc/NeoFirstWarpPadExampleForest.gif (http://users.sephiroth.ws/ST/zc/NeoFirstWarpPadExampleForest.gif)

Behold, NeoFirst's warping system. I wanted to make a topic about it for a while. Now that I actually have at least one warp point, I think we can actually start using it. Now, there will be exactly four of these in total in the world: One for your town, and one for each dungeon. There will be a warp point somewhere near your house, somewhere outside the forest dungeon, somewhere near the entrance to the Lava/Ice Caverns, and somewhere near the Temple of Light.

I have the one in the screenshot set up so that when you step on (Or relatively near, as a it's a sensitive Permanent Trigger type combo.) it'll become a Stair[A] combo under layer 1. Layer 1 will remain grass or whatever it is under there, and layer 2 (The Center of the Warp Circle.) will begin to flash, indicating that you've activated it. I want your opinions to see if I should make one of those light beams coming up from it activate as well.

Now, here's the thing. This one is so tightly packed and reduced, (It used to be 7x7. Possibly larger. MUCH larger.) Now it's 5x5. More doable, that's for sure. -IF- I made it larger, (I have a few copies I ripped in just now that are larger.) I'm wondering how to fit it into the world. See, here's the thing. I can't put this thing onto layer 0, since it'll look black against the ground. (A'la newcomerish layering problems where they just stack the treetops onto the ground, thus making it look black.) So that won't work. I also want grass under it, (Leaves and waving grass and flowers and other doodads and such.) so those will go on layer 1 for the most part. Layer 2 will consist of the warp circle.

Thus, here lies the problem. If it's a BIGGER warp circle, it'll have a hell of a time being laid out on the floor. There just won't be enough space for it, and I don't want it to go off of cliffs or shores or lay on trees and such. I want it to be part of the floor. It just can't climb things or swim, you know? So trees and such would have to be layered on top of the outer parts of the circle. However, since the warp circle is on layer 2, there are only two things we can do here:

Forego some of the grass, and splay MOST of the warp circle on layer 1 on top of the grass, and put the grass on layer 0. The trees will then have space on layer 2 with the Warp Circle on layer 1.
We can use Freeform combos to put the warp circle on. They'd just stay there. They're between layers 1 and 2, so... that'd solve that. There are only 32 of them though. :p May be enough, but still damn tedius. @ @.'

Okay. Now that the setup is done, here's how I plan for the actual warping to work.

It'll work primarily using the Room State Carryover feature. You trigger a warp, and it triggers all layers for that screen to show the warp circle effects being activated, and it also activates the warp in the warp hub.

So when you step on the warp circle's center, you'll be warped to the Warp Hub. The first thign you see is a black screen. It's rapidly warping you via the sensitive warps spawning under you to the latest area you triggered. It works like this: (And PLEASE DO tell me if you can think of a better way.)

You warp to a blank screen, invisible, with no subscreen. There's a timed tic warp going on. It's less than a second. There are combos cycling under you, cycling into a sensitive warp. -=The timed warp takes you to the first hub with nothing but your home town triggered. The sensitve warps take you to the next black screen, eventually leading to the most recently triggered hub with more warps available to you.=-

Thus, say you activate the Forest Temple's warp circle. It'll trigger the secrets for its layers, as well as the secrets for its loading screen. I have the screen flag "Secret stop timer" or whatever it's called, so it gives the combo-cycled combos enough time to cycle to lead you to the next hub screen, rather than warping you to the blank one.

Now, yes, I am well aware that this system requires you to activate these in sequence. For NeoFirst, that's acceptable. It's also why I'm leaving this open ended for you guys to analyze and recommend something else if you can think of something better.

07-19-2006, 05:53 PM
I think the size of the circle is fine right now. All it really needs is someone really good to clean it up a bunch. Heck, I think it might be better if it were 4x4 in size, maybe even 3x3.
Did everyone just ignore this entire thread or something?
Hmm... is there any way that you can make it so that the ocarina (or whatever you're making it) works only in certain areas? If not... I am SO making that a suggestion.

The warping system is a bit uhh... too complicated for my likes. For me, I'd just say that it warps you to a warp room. In it, it has four warps: You already know what they are. Surrounding the house warp, would be some people mayhaps (Or just make it a house in which you can enter and then you end up at the house area); around the forest one, there'd probably be some trees; fire and ice around the fire/ice caves; and a beam of light shining on the light temple warp. Of course, to prevent free traveling from the start of the game, there would be obstacles in the way of getting to each of the warps... except the first one. Items according to the dungeons would block your way to the warps from Levels 1, 2, and 3. Not so darn complicated, considerably simple, and pretty much bug-free and guaranteed. And it makes use of the nice and easy multi-warp. Nifty...
Hmm... I think I'm gonna use this for my own quest. Difference is, it would require four rooms (15 dungeons/dungeon areas + starting area).

EDIT: How is it that you thought of some absolutely crazy idea that is just plain confusing but not something like this?:rolleyes: Besides... it doesn't REALLY require you to activate them in a sequence...

07-19-2006, 06:50 PM
EDIT: How is it that you thought of some absolutely crazy idea that is just plain confusing but not something like this? :rollyes:It takes skill. :p
Besides... it doesn't REALLY require you to activate them in a sequence...Eh, actually, it kinda does. I mean, the subtle reason that you have to activate them in a sequence is that although you don't have to beat the bosses in order, you DO need the items from that given temple to progress to the next one. Thus, in order to advance to the next warp point to activate it, you'll have to have gone to the previous temple (And warp point) to get the items needed to visit that warp point, activating that temple's warp circle in the process.

Less subtly, (Not a word, yay...) ... think of it like this.


You start from the Black O. You have to go to the Sky Blue O. However, you must pass each color in between. You cannot skip them. You reach the next one by activating at and arriving at the one preceding it. You may not skip.

If you activate the first three, you can go as far as the third. If you don't activate the second one but activate the third and fourth, you couldn't visit either of those because you start at the black O. Seriously, it's just how it works out.

Besides, this is a 2.11 Exhibition quest. It's supposed to show the most intricate techniques that ZQuest can offer so people can learn from it. We can do things the easy way, or we can do things the complex but creative way. :p

So, your way, Windstrike, ... does it use one screen (According to what the player will see.) for its warps? Or does it use five? (One for an arrival area in the center, and one warp on each of the four ends.)

07-19-2006, 07:07 PM
Unless you want overkill in detail or something, my way would use just one screen. It's just for symbolizing. You'd arrive next to the point you came from and go to whichever you need (assuming you have that item, of course). Oh, and by the warp points not having to activate them in order, I mean like, skipping activation of warp points. In case by accident if you did skip the first one or two (however you'd that... aside from purely ignoring it). As for your 'may not skip' thing for your way... do you mean we absolutely CANNOT skip or if we skip it, we can't go back?

Yeah... guess I'll have to go with ya on this one - creatively complicated > semi-creative simplicity. Twas an attempt... with my newbie/rookie skills of zquest.

07-19-2006, 07:27 PM
Oh, and by the warp points not having to activate them in order, I mean like, skipping activation of warp points. In case by accident if you did skip the first one or two (however you'd that... aside from purely ignoring it). As for your 'may not skip' thing for your way... do you mean we absolutely CANNOT skip or if we skip it, we can't go back?I mean, it'll be physically impossible to warp to a warp point that you've activated if you haven't activated its previous warp point, because ... ... well, remember when I said that stepping on the Warp Circle will trigger the secrets on one of those black screens that stops the timed warp and makes the combo cycle to a warp? Well, that sequence pretty much goes in exactly that straight line I described. There's no way at all for it know which ones you've activated, as there's only one secret per screen and it can only activate the topmost tier on a screen, which means only one type of warp can be developed. I've even gone too far in that description.

08-23-2006, 11:51 PM
Um... I have an idea that is simplistic like WindStrike's, relatively easy to follow for newer users, and allows for opening warp zones in any order.

It involves a warp-zone area (Similar to the Warp Zone from SMB3, but a little flashier).

A five-screen plus-shaped layout, with each warp zone having its own individual screen so that triggers can function permenantly unhindered.

Just bear with me, I'm going on a rant again.

Warp Zones will be designed to look like their respective areas. So the warp zone for the town would have false buildings and terrain like the town.
In the center would be the warp symbol, with an orb of darkness over it's center. Around the orb are unwalkable combos, and beneath it is a permenant trigger combo which replaces itself with a stair warp (To the warp's location) and replaces the surrounding combos with walkable ones. On the upper layer, the dark orb combos are replaced with animated shattering combos.
Each warp zone would be separate so that these secrets don't have to skirt around other flags needlessly. The center room of the plus-shaped warp area could have a save point if you like, or not.

EXAMPLE: Link steps on the warp symbol in the forest. It takes him directly to the left room of the warp zone (The forest warp zone). Placing him inside of the unwalkable zone on top of the permenant trigger makes the orb shatter and opens that particular warp for reusable access.


Easy to see how it functions, good for newer users.
Easy to implement and repair/edit. The blinking black warp screen is hard to spot, hard to diagnose errors, and difficult for less skilled users to understand.


Neofirst is meant to exhibit as many of the new features as possible. Even if ShadowTiger's version is hard to spot, it shows possibilities.

09-01-2006, 06:44 PM
Neofirst is meant to exhibit as many of the new features as possible. Even if ShadowTiger's version is hard to spot, it shows possibilities.
And that is the pure reason why this will never make it unless you make it so that it makes full use of 2.11's features... thing is, unless you know its features inside out, you're either going to end up with a clone of ShadowTiger's idea or something that won't work. Now what I'd said to aim for is make use of more features if possible and/or find a way to make it easier, as it is still mindnumbing to me. Oh well... as long as it works. Still, good attempt CJC.

10-18-2006, 11:40 AM
CJC's attempt makes the most sense, and gives your designers possibilities involving the warp zone such as bad things getting into it or whatnot. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

10-18-2006, 08:05 PM
Wow... that's the first time C-Dawg has ever agreed with something I posted...

Considering the recent development of the quest itself and the varying other functions that are being implemented, I will again express that this method will be the easiest to monitor for bugs and misaligns, which will be benificial in such a massive quest.

So, you have to consider which is better, a warp system that works seemlessly or a warp system that works.

10-19-2006, 11:53 AM
Well, I'm going to be perfectly honest with everyone..

ShadowTiger, that's a very nice idea, but it would be a little too difficult to be able to analyze from a newbie's standpoint..
Windstrike, your way is pretty simple, however, I don't think it'd work since you can only have one permanent secret per screen. :shrug:
Cjc7988, That's a very good way to put it, and from your descriptions, I know that it would just work as well. ... ... Mind if I steal this idea? :O

Anyways, all I can say is, CJC's idea does make the most sense and would probably be so much easier for a newcommer to ZC to figure out what it does and how it does it. :P

10-22-2006, 09:33 AM
The system is already being built, actually. I'm just sort of wondering what sort of "transition" we could have between each area in this five-room area. The best idea I can think of at the moment is/are clouds. :shrug: But then you've got palette issues. >.>' Volcania area, ashen area, foresty area, grassy area, .. .. bah. :sweat:

10-22-2006, 11:15 AM
My opinion is that warp hubs are a bit of a cheat-out, and that the Link's Awakening-style warps described by ShadowTiger is more elegant.

However, here's a third possibility:
* Stepping into any warp circle takes you to a screen.
* This screen is a scripted menu, possibly involving a world map and several icons.
* Move the cursor to the icon and press A.
* The script will "know" which screens have already been visited using Game->GetMapFlag.

P.S: I've already placed one of the teleporters in the Desert of Side Warps (temporary name) so the locations are overworld, forest, desert and snow volcano.

10-23-2006, 09:05 AM
Er... snow volcano? o.o? As far as I know, only the L2 cavern itself is plagued with temperature effects; not so much the areas around it. MAYBE the opening above the cave where the raft is hanging from a tree, as the roof of the cave is open there. (Allowing light to stream in, so light tiles are required, which we have, etc.)