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Monica
07-05-2006, 11:21 PM
WASHINGTON - When "say," "they" and "weigh" rhyme, but "bomb," "comb" and "tomb" don't, wuudn't it maek mor sens to spel wurdz the wae thae sound? ADVERTISEMENT




Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing.

Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun.

It's been 100 years since Andrew Carnegie helped create the Simplified Spelling Board to promote a retooling of written English and President Theodore Roosevelt tried to force the government to use simplified spelling in its publications. But advocates aren't giving up.

They even picket the national spelling bee finals, held every year in Washington, costumed as bumble bees and hoisting signs that say "Enuf is enuf but enough is too much" or "I'm thru with through."

Thae sae th bee selebraets th ability of a fue stoodents to master a dificult sistem that stumps meny utherz hoo cuud do just as wel if speling were simpler.

"It's a very difficult thing to get something accepted like this," says Alan Mole, president of the American Literacy Council, which favors an end to "illogical spelling." The group says English has 42 sounds spelled in a bewildering 400 ways.

Americans doen't aulwaez go for whut's eezy — witnes th faeluer of th metric sistem to cach on. But propoenents of simpler speling noet that a smatering of aulterd spelingz hav maed th leep into evrydae ues.

Doughnut also is donut; colour, honour and labour long ago lost the British "u" and the similarly derived theatre and centre have been replaced by the easier-to-sound-out theater and center.

"The kinds of progress that we're seeing are that someone will spell night 'nite' and someone will spell through 'thru,'" Mole said. "We try to show where these spellings are used and to show dictionary makers that they are used so they will include them as alternate spellings."

"Great changes have been made in the past. Systems can change," a hopeful Mole said.

Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed.

In languages with phonetically spelled words, like German or Spanish, children learn to spell in weeks instead of months or years as is sometimes the case with English, Mole said.

But education professor Donald Bear said to simplify spelling would probably make it more difficult because words get meaning from their prefixes, suffixes and roots.

"Students come to understand how meaning is preserved in the way words are spelled," said Bear, director of the E.L. Cord Foundation Center for Learning and Literacy at the University of Nevada, Reno.

Th cuntry's larjest teecherz uennyon, wuns a suporter, aulso objects.

Michael Marks, a member of the National Education Association's executive committee, said learning would be disrupted if children had to switch to a different spelling system. "It may be more trouble than it's worth," said Marks, a debate and theater teacher at Hattiesburg High School in Mississippi.

E-mail and text messages are exerting a similar tug on the language, sharing some elements with the simplified spelling movement while differing in other ways. Electronic communications stress shortcuts like "u" more than phonetics. Simplified spelling is not always shorter than regular spelling — sistem instead of system, hoep instead of hope.

Carnegie tried to moov thingz along in 1906 when he helpt establish and fund th speling bord. He aulso uezd simplified speling in his correspondens, and askt enywun hoo reported to him to do the saem.

A filanthropist, he becaem pashunet about th ishoo after speeking with Melvil Dewey, a speling reform activist and Dewey Desimal sistem inventor hoo simplified his furst naem bi droping "le" frum Melville.

Roosevelt tried to get the government to adopt simpler spellings for 300 words but Congress blocked him. He used simple spellings in all White House memos, pressing forward his effort to "make our spelling a little less foolish and fantastic."

The Chicago Tribune aulso got into th act, uezing simpler spelingz in th nuezpaeper for about 40 years, ending in 1975. Plae-riet George Bernard Shaw, hoo roet moest of his mateerial in shorthand, left muny in his wil for th development of a nue English alfabet.

Carnegie, Dewey, Roosevelt and Shaw's work followed attempts by Benjamin Franklin, Daniel Webster and Mark Twain to advance simpler spelling. Twain lobbied The Associated Press at its 1906 annual meeting to "adopt and use our simplified forms and spread them to the ends of the earth." AP declined.

But for aul th hi-proefiel and skolarly eforts, the iedeea of funy-luuking but simpler spelingz didn't captivaet the masez then — or now.

"I think that the average person simply did not see this as a needed change or a necessary change or something that was ... going to change their lives for the better," said Marilyn Cocchiola Holt, manager of the Pennsylvania department of the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh.

Carnegie, hoo embraest teknolojy, died in 1919, wel befor sel foenz. Had he livd, he probably wuud hav bin pleezd to no that milyonz of peepl send text and instant mesejez evry dae uezing thair oen formz of simplified speling: "Hav a gr8 day!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz;_ylt=AmyxhVjvg30WqsoCemkCP55G2ocA;_ylu =X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA

What do y'all think about THIS? It's too weird for me, seems like they've been hanging in an online chatroom too long, I dunno...:/

Oh yeah, and English and spelling were my favorite subjects in school, so this would actually be an incredible insult. :(

{DSG}DarkRaven
07-05-2006, 11:36 PM
I think that dumbing things down in order to make american kids seem smarter is a critical mistake, and if this ever happens, I'm moving to Alaska and living in a bunker.

Dechipher
07-06-2006, 12:48 AM
Alaska is in America too homes.


I think anything that stimulates less brain activity is a very bad idea.

Daarkseid
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
I think anything that stimulates less brain activity is a very bad idea.

Theres nothing stimulating about simply being able to remember how a word is spelled.

The english language is supposedly very difficult to learn when its not a primary language because of the arbitrary manner in which some words are pronounced compared to their spellings.

The english language could benefit from a more standardized spelling and pronunciation structure, along the lines with romance languages, which is where a huge number of our words derive(through the french language), though not necessarily from more simplified spelling of words.

Dechipher
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
Theres nothing stimulating about simply being able to remember how a word is spelled.

The english language is supposedly very difficult to learn when its not a primary language because of the arbitrary manner in which some words are pronounced compared to their spellings.

The english language could benefit from a more standardized spelling and pronunciation structure, along the lines with romance languages, which is where a huge number of our words derive(through the french language).
True, but chances are if it's more complicated it's going to stimulate more. Evne if it's not a copious amount.

Gerudo
07-06-2006, 01:59 AM
i fucking hate it when people cant spell simple words like "you", "are" "when" and "this"...

i'm not perfect at grammar (mostly lacking capitalization and some puntuation), but what the hell? most of that shit makes my head hurt.

me2
07-06-2006, 02:16 AM
That article was impossible to read. tl;dr'd.

I'd like spelling to simplify a little bit, but not to where everything is phonetically spelled. It's hurt my eyes. x_x

MagmaLord
07-06-2006, 03:57 AM
Alaska is in America too homes.


Do what now?


I think anything that stimulates less brain activity is a very bad idea.

I agree, which is why I have started to that Sudoku thing. And because I like to do my part for the environment, yeah whatever, I have Sudoku on my DS. Therefore I am expanding my brain, yes I have one, and I know that you are suprised and jealous, and cutting down on paper usage thus saving trees at the same time.

Half a guud daiye.

MacWeirdo42
07-06-2006, 07:05 AM
We all know that English is a bastard language... However, most people seem to get it. I mean, seems like pretty much everyone who doesn't have some sort of learning disability is able to pick up the language rather easily, and hell, I'm surprised at how well a lot of people who learn it as a second language do, despite the obstacles.

That said, yeah, the spelling is ridiculous sometimes. Frankly, I'm a big fan of good ol' Hebrew myself, incredibly phonetic language. I think there's maybe one case that I can think of where a word is not pronounced the way it's spelled in Hebrew. Not that I'm suggesting we should all switch to Hebrew, just sayin'...

Sir_Johnamus
07-06-2006, 01:22 PM
If we dumb things down, it will make us seem stupider than we already are.
What they say: We R wantin things tu bee eeseer tu reed. Skroo U.

moocow
07-06-2006, 01:44 PM
I couldn't read that article because it gave me a headache.

Bad idea.

mikeron
07-06-2006, 01:54 PM
i fucking hate it when people cant spell simple words like "you", "are" "when" and "this"...

i'm not perfect at grammar (mostly lacking capitalization and some puntuation), but what the hell? most of that shit makes my head hurt.Yes, English aptitude is an excellent filter when deciding whether or not to give a flying fuck what somebody has to say. Besides, Chinese kids have to learn that whole whacked out orthography, and they appear to be better for it.

Archibaldo
07-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Seriously, I got 1/8th of the way through that article and I couldn't read any more of it.

The english language is fine. Lrn2readandwrite.

Dart Zaidyer
07-07-2006, 03:46 AM
I was already halfway through the first sentence before I realized this "simple spelling" is about as intelligible as a first grade student attempting to write for the very first time.

Anyone who advocates this sort of thing is devaluing-- nay, openly slamming all the long, hard years it took for students to grasp the real system. If Cletus has something to say, then he needs to learn the damn language or shut up. He shouldn't be trying to lobotomize it for the rest of us.

*b*
07-07-2006, 04:10 AM
funny, I read that EXACT same article today, word for word

this makes no sense to me. changing the way people spell words would be as smart as saying 1+1 is 11, just to make the idiot kids out there feel better

Lilith
07-07-2006, 08:01 AM
lol, cuntry

Love For Fire
07-07-2006, 08:29 AM
I hate how they come up with these things to try to make people of lower intelligence become more average. At the same time, telling of people actually bashing kids for being smart.

Just because people have trouble doing something doesn't mean you get to change it. I think most people can learn English fine, and dont need 2 rezort 2 things liek ths. I mean... can we change math because some people out there still can't do basic addition/subtraction?

There's really no need for this crap.

Monica
07-07-2006, 12:27 PM
I hate how they come up with these things to try to make people of lower intelligence become more average. At the same time, telling of people actually bashing kids for being smart.

Just because people have trouble doing something doesn't mean you get to change it. I think most people can learn English fine, and dont need 2 rezort 2 things liek ths. I mean... can we change math because some people out there still can't do basic addition/subtraction?

There's really no need for this crap.

OH....MY....LORD!!!

This WOULD just be catering to the less intellegent kids, just like my elementary school principal did. We had the A, B, and C classes and were placed in class depending on our CAT test scores and given work accordingly. Then this Moron took over and decided that having that system wasn't PC and he figured it made him look bad (what a sissy and everyone knows he's a crook anyway but he's somehow still on the schoolboard) so he mixes everyone up and forces everyone to learn what the C kids were learning when I was in the third grade. I had been in the A class.

Yeah it just reminded me of that, so I deffinately don't want this at all... :( :mad:

rocksfan13
07-07-2006, 12:33 PM
It's complete bullshit, is what it is. You don't change the language because someone is finding it difficult to comprehend. It reminds me of ebonics. What a joke. This is the real reason that people that are coming from other countries won't learn the language. Even if you did change it, they still wouldn't.

I simpithize with the kids that are a little slow when it comes to it, but that's all the more reason to try harder. It's insulting to those that are in higher intelligence. I thought that's why there are TEACHERS.

Dark Nation
07-07-2006, 02:40 PM
Should I be concerned at all about the fact that I was able to read through the entire article with no trouble? :odd: Granted, I can also read things that are rotated 180 degrees (like reading something on the table that someone else who is sitting across from you is reading) as well as things in a mirror. Ah, the things you teach yourself when you're bored.

algam86
07-07-2006, 02:52 PM
That hurt. I can undersand starting it off for foreigners or something, but start getting them to spell words the way they're supposed to be...Writing it like this is a pain when you're pretty good in normal English.

By the way, DN, I can do that, too! Mom always gets mad when I do that while we're reading, though. :p

Dark Nation
07-07-2006, 03:20 PM
By the way, DN, I can do that, too! Mom always gets mad when I do that while we're reading, though. :p
Even more so when you can read faster upside-down than the other person can read normally. :D

punkonjunk1024
07-07-2006, 03:45 PM
Hey, what did they call that language in 1984? Doubletalk, or whatever? That language to simplify traditional english to a point where emotion or expression was no longer possible?
One. Step. Closer.

koopa
07-08-2006, 01:55 PM
Newspeak. I was just about to mention it myself.
I find the whole idea doubleplusungood. In other words: lrn 2 spl plz kthx.



This WOULD just be catering to the less intellegent kids, just like my elementary school principal did. We had the A, B, and C classes and were placed in class depending on our CAT test scores and given work accordingly. Then this Moron took over and decided that having that system wasn't PC and he figured it made him look bad (what a sissy and everyone knows he's a crook anyway but he's somehow still on the schoolboard) so he mixes everyone up and forces everyone to learn what the C kids were learning when I was in the third grade. I had been in the A class.

Yeah it just reminded me of that, so I deffinately don't want this at all...
That sucks. It's like saying for the sake of equality everyone should be equally unhappy.

The English language is changing all the time, in fact - to google is now an official verb, and think of all the new words and expressions from the computer/Internet field - or compare today's language to Shakespeare and you'll see that English has changed a lot. I'm all for gradual changes that have a point, but this is ridiculous. It's really like saying 1+1=1 is ok for the slow learners.