Sony Shoots Themselves in the Foot [Archive]

Warlock

05-23-2006, 11:49 AM

I will let the quote speak for itself:

Sony: If We Make It, They Will Buy
SCEE CEO brimming with confidence regarding PS3.
by Luke Smith, 05/19/2006
148 of 179 users recommend this story.
When Sony Computer Entertainment Europe CEO David Reeves admits that "key launch titles" will slip into 2007 he also admits that to Sony, it doesn't really matter what ships at launch.

"We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games," Reeves told Computer and Video Games in an interview. During the same interview, Reeves admits that Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm and Formula One will all see release in early 2007 within the PS3 "launch window." Insomniac's gritty World War II shooter (with aliens) Resistance: Fall of Man will be there at launch according to Reeves.

It's not games like Heavenly Sword slipping into the "launch window" instead of the "launch day" category that is concerning -- it's Sony admitting that even if there were no games to purchase, consumers would still be lining up en masse to grab the PS3.

We get it, Sony, you were the market leader for two solid generations of console making, but you might be placing a little too much faith in the perceived strength of your brand to ask people to fork over $600 for your console regardless of the available software.

-_-

ShadowTiger

05-23-2006, 11:53 AM

It's not games like Heavenly Sword slipping into the "launch window" instead of the "launch day" category that is concerning -- it's Sony admitting that even if there were no games to purchase, consumers would still be lining up en masse to grab the PS3.... ... ... ... idiots.

It's been the talk of the town for quite a little while. My friend Preordered a few XBox360's to sell for a profit. It worked wonderfully. He won't touch the PS3 with a 40 foot pole.

Sony must be desperate at this point. :rolleyes:

Cloral

05-23-2006, 12:23 PM

This is exactly like the quote where they said that price wouldn't be a problem - that people would want the system no matter what they charged for it. They're arrogant, and I think people are starting to decide that the PS3 isn't going to be so great.

Warlock

05-23-2006, 12:36 PM

This and the fact that Heavenly Sword is not a launch title now are seriously changing my mind about getting one at launch. What is the point of spending $600? Prettier PS2 games? I'm absolutely not worried about supply anymore either, so it's better just to wait until they have the games to back up the system.

Glenn the Great

05-23-2006, 12:46 PM

Lone Wolf

05-23-2006, 01:11 PM

I am so conviced not to buy a PS3 now. Xbox 360, here I come.

Darth Marsden

05-23-2006, 02:41 PM

Here's an idea. Let's support them. You heard me. Let's not critisze them for doing shit like this. Let's encourage Sony to do it more. Let's get them to release the console with no controllers. Let's get them to charge you a fortune for the online aspect. Let's get them to have no games for months.

And then we all buy Wiis and laugh as Sony dies a well deserved death.

MottZilla

05-23-2006, 02:48 PM

I think it will be interesting to see what some game companies who have historically been releasing their big titles on just the Playstation systems (such as Square-Enix), will do if PS3 turns out to be a big flop, which seems very likely.

They'll develop on 360 for titles needing lots of graphics/cpu power or the Wii for game they want to play different than the traditional game.

Darth Marsden

05-23-2006, 02:55 PM

They're already developing for Wii, aren't they? Crystal Chronicles? Or is that just for the DS?

MottZilla

05-23-2006, 03:47 PM

I think you're right that FF CC is coming to Wii. But the official main FF line isn't as far as we know. No FFVX or whatever the number is or FFVII remake for the Wii as far as we know.

I also saw an article today of Yahoo Japan polling consumers about the PS3 price and infact the japanese like that price as much as we do. They have similar opinions like they'd get one if the price dropped.

Warlock

05-23-2006, 03:58 PM

They're already developing for Wii, aren't they? Crystal Chronicles? Or is that just for the DS?

And a new Dragon Quest game (it is "Square-Enix" and not just Square now :))

Glenn the Great

05-23-2006, 04:30 PM

They'll develop on 360 for titles needing lots of graphics/cpu power or the Wii for game they want to play different than the traditional game.

That may seem to be the logical answer at first, but the reason I didn't jump to that is because the XBox 360 might not do well in Japan for similar reasons as the regular XBox. Square-Enix has clearly preferred putting its major games on a Japanese-made console that has good specs, thus why they go with the Playstation. It's hard to imagine Square-Enix putting their games on an American console. It would be very funny to see them do that, and I know they'd rather not.

Mitsukara

05-23-2006, 04:47 PM

Wow, that's arrogant.

I bet Sega releases a 256 bit console and blows them all away. ;)

Righty-o. Personally, I think that if Sony really does fall to the wayside with this console, there will be a number of third party releases moving to the Wii instead. especially if it is indeed backwards compatable with the gamecube controller for certain games. However, I'm sure some would go to the X-Box as well... and I kind of suspect we might see more multi-console releases akin the Megaman Anniversary Collection and such. Maybe not... but it certainly doesn't seem out of the question either.

Personally, I wager on a lot of Square-Enix releases to be on the Wii now, Capcom to do an even mix of multi-system and Wii-only, for Konami to go mostly the multi-system route but get finicky and release some games (*coughcoughCastlevaniacough*) exclusively on whichever system is most popular at the time, and for all Sega games to be on Nintendo's consoles. This from someone who doesn't keep up with the pre-console-release news all that closely, of couse, but just my thoughts... *shrugs*

MottZilla

05-24-2006, 12:05 AM

As much as japanese developers may prefer to develop on a japanese system, that just may not be a viable option. The Xbox 360 is far more affordable and available. It also will perform similarly from the most recent estimates. Japanese gamers apparently don't like high prices either. While many people like to stick their heads up Sony's ass, they really fucked up this time. Really high price, pushing high def, hardware isn't final yet. They won't get the fast large install base that developers depend on. This is all great news for the 360, which as a new 360 owner means good news for me.

Warlock

05-24-2006, 11:59 AM

Glenn the Great

05-24-2006, 12:10 PM

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060522-6885.html

Same basic quote I think but some stuff from Nintendo and stuff in there too. PS3's controller doesn't have rumble though? That's freaking stupid!

Not sure if that article covered it, but the reason PS3 won't have rumble is because Sony lost a lawsuit over the Dual Shock technology. Someone else held the patent on it and wouldn't let Sony use it, or something like that. Sony is conveniently making up for that with the motion sensing. I guess that Sony can argue now that it wouldn't be a good idea to have both rumbling and motion sensing, because the rumbling would greatly interfere with the motion sensing.

Aegix Drakan

05-24-2006, 12:29 PM

Sony is banking WAAAY too much on its fanbase. and I'm sure the motion thingy for the PS3 was a last minute additon to try to steal the Wii's popularity.

I heard that the gyroscopes messed up at E3. :D serves you right Sony!.

Warlock

05-24-2006, 01:03 PM

Not sure if that article covered it, but the reason PS3 won't have rumble is because Sony lost a lawsuit over the Dual Shock technology. Someone else held the patent on it and wouldn't let Sony use it, or something like that. Sony is conveniently making up for that with the motion sensing. I guess that Sony can argue now that it wouldn't be a good idea to have both rumbling and motion sensing, because the rumbling would greatly interfere with the motion sensing.

Yeah, that's exactly what the article says. It's Sony's way of covering their ass. They lost the lawsuit so, "Oh, it's the motion sensor that prevents it".

Actually tho, this got me thinking. Nintendo said there was still a couple details about Wii they havn't announced. Now IGN speculated it might be a microphone in the controller (which is a good guess) but it got me thinking, what if they added rumble? I mean, the one major problem with this style of control is you have no feedback. I mean, you hit a tennis ball for example, and you can't actually *feel* it being hit. Now they sort of fixed this a bit with the built-in speaker (you can hear it being hit on the controller) but what if when you hit the tennis ball, you felt it too? Now that would be awesome. I don't buy Sony's claim. Rumble doesn't have to interfere with normal control, especially when it's PART of control. Other examples - you fire a gun and you feel it recoil.. so what if it moves your controller (and gun) a little, that is realistic! You cast a fishing line and you can feel the fish fighting against you. Any other sports game that involves hitting a ball (i.e. Baseball, dribbling in Basketball, etc). It's a great idea I think.

ctrl-alt-delete

05-24-2006, 02:07 PM

Nintendo already mentioned that their controller has the rumble feature during their press conference.

Yoshiman

05-24-2006, 06:02 PM

Somewhat off topic, but it's another nail in the coffin for Sony if it's true:

[PS3] Sony makes moves to stamp out lucrative second-hand market
Words: Matt Cundy

Wednesday 24 May 2006
High street games shops have been told by Sony that there will be no PS3 pre-owned sections in their stores as it will be illegal for customers to sell any next-gen PlayStation games that they've bought, retail sources have revealed to GamesRadar.

It seems that Sony is planning to adopt a licensing system that will mean gamers won't own the PS3 titles that they've paid money for. Instead, they will only be purchasing the licence to play the game and that the software itself will still be Sony property - meaning that the disc won't be the customer's to sell.

We assume that the thinking behind this move will ultimately be to stop PS3 games being resold several times - which currently snatches potential sales away from Sony - and to counter the impression in consumers' minds that games are only really worth their pre-owned price and are not worth buying new.

When we contacted Sony, it issued us with the following statement: "We have made all of the official announcements at E3 and cannot make any further comments at this time. We will be announcing more news running up to PlayStation 3's launch."
Source (http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006)

Now, I'm not sure how credible the site is, but for those who are too lazy to read, Sony is basically killing off game rentals and pre-owned selling in order to fatten their wallets. If this is indeed true along with not offering games at launch, I really wonder if Sony has some über plan to attract a whole crapload of gamers.

At the rate they're going, they might as well release a console with no controllers like Darth Marsden said since they believe that their fanbase will buy anything they put out (sad thing is, some people will).

Wii and XBox 360 are looking very nice right now.

MottZilla

05-24-2006, 06:11 PM

No, realistically it would move more than alittle Warlock. Esspecially depending on he load fired. ;) Though from my experience 9mm and .40 don't seem to recoil very bad. Though .50 certainly does.

I think it might be neat but to be honest I don't miss rumble features at all. I "think" the Xbox 360 wireless controller doesn't have it. I can't be sure though because I never notice anymore. Rumble was cool when Nintendo introduced it for N64. Then after that generation, I really didn't care. It's more annoying than cool. They also say now extended play with rumble is bad for your hands. Carpel tunnel or something.

Also I heard about the anti-preowned game thing. What might be next is them saying it means you can't rent the game either! Sony makes Microsoft look good. Well, even better I should say, cause they are doing well enough already. Then you add Sony's blunders to it, and M$ is even better.

Orion

05-24-2006, 06:57 PM

The wireless 360 controller does have it... there's a way to turn it on and off, and I've done it inadvertantly many times, but I have no idea how. Which is fine, I could care less whether there's rumble in anything or not.

goKi

05-24-2006, 07:08 PM

Everytime i hear something new about the PS3 sucking more ass, i smile a little more. I'm so glad the PS3 is going to crash and burn.

I think i'll stick with what i said a year ago, i'll NEVER buy one.

Cloral

05-24-2006, 07:09 PM

The 360 wireless controllers have it. When I charge up my plasma pistol in Halo 2 the controller starts shaking quite a bit. I really do like the effect as long as it isn't used too much - some games have parts where I set the controller down because they shake the controller too much.

I remember hearing a few years ago about some Japanese company trying to pass legislation in Japan to prevent the sale of used games. So I wouldn't be surprised if this thing about not reselling PS3 games is true.

Aegix Drakan

05-24-2006, 07:33 PM

you might not be allowed to sell your PS3 games?!? WHAT is Sony smoking? they are gonna alienate a lot of their casual fans with this...

@ Warlock: I really like the ideas you got! recoil on guns, and feeling what you hit...that would really kick ass.

BTW, that quote in your sig. I'm SURE I've seen it somewhere...but I can't remember where. can you please tell me where you got it form?

MottZilla

05-24-2006, 08:01 PM

Businesses won't be able to sell used PS3 games, however individuals they really cannot stop. Though places like ebay may end up being forced to abide however as always some will slip through. Ofcourse right now it seems there aren't any real games in existance for PS3 (well not many) so I guess that's something to worry about if the system doesn't flop hard.

Breaker

05-24-2006, 08:49 PM

Fuck PS3. I'm already giddy about getting a Wii.

nioro

05-24-2006, 10:39 PM

Sony had better hope that thier die-hard fans buy a FUCK-load of thier shit..

Cause, at this rate, they might as well kiss thier future in gaming consoles goodbye..

(They might have to, anyway..)

(And that certainly explains the shift to Blu-Ray disks. 30 gigs of copywrite protection can certainly put a hamper on playing a game not registered to your system..)

mikeron

05-24-2006, 10:53 PM

So, for the price of a ps3, you can get a wii, extra controllers, a game and some beer for your buddies...

MacWeirdo42

05-24-2006, 10:55 PM

So, for the price of a ps3, you can get a wii, extra controllers, a game and some beer for your buddies...
I really like that plan. Hell, you could even buy some backup controllers for when your buddies drunkenly fling the controllers across the room in a desperate attempt to hit the darn tennis ball or whatever it was they were doing at the time the controller went flying out of their hand.

nioro

05-24-2006, 11:00 PM

I really like that plan. Hell, you could even buy some backup controllers for when your buddies drunkenly fling the controllers across the room in a desperate attempt to hit the darn tennis ball or whatever it was they were doing at the time the controller went flying out of their hand.
Or perhaps when they attempt to beat the crap out of eachother during SSBB both in the game and out of it..

(Oh the fun, this Wii will be the talk of the world for years to come..)

Warlock

05-24-2006, 11:01 PM

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3086&Itemid=2

A lot of people seem skeptical that the license thing is true. If it is, and Sony does intend to tie games to the system, well goodbye Sony. I'm sorry but that is the most moronic idea ever. You wouldn't even be able to rent games. Don't like a game? Too freaking bad. You now own a coaster.

So I'm *hoping* Sony is not that freaking stupid. Then again, you all read the thing I quoted at the top of this post :P

mikeron

05-24-2006, 11:03 PM

I really like that plan. Hell, you could even buy some backup controllers for when your buddies drunkenly fling the controllers across the room in a desperate attempt to hit the darn tennis ball or whatever it was they were doing at the time the controller went flying out of their hand.Oh shit, you just made me realize a whole new market: video drinking games - games that use the motion sensor and are built on how hard it gets to coordinate your movements, and the screen commands player x to drink a shot!

EDIT: Drunken karaoke functionality would totally clinch it.

Grasshopper

05-24-2006, 11:19 PM

Oh shit, you just made me realize a whole new market: video drinking games - games that use the motion sensor and are built on how hard it gets to coordinate your movements, and the screen commands player x to drink a shot!Thats all we need is The Guy Game 2 on Wii.

About this PS3 used game stuff, isn't this old news? I seem to recall hearing this last year around this time.

goKi

05-25-2006, 06:25 AM

The rumor last year was about tying it into the console. This is about owning a 'license' to the game, not the actual game, which is far worse.

MottZilla

05-25-2006, 01:51 PM

Well supposively Sony executives have said recently that they are not trying to stop the sale of used games. I guess they realized that was too Hilter to do.

Cloral

05-25-2006, 03:13 PM

MacWeirdo42

05-25-2006, 04:04 PM

I was aware of that... On the other hand, I think the odds are fairly good that one of these hypothetical drunken buddies is going to forget to use the wrist strap at some point or another.

goKi

06-04-2006, 08:07 AM

All i can say is that it worked for Nintendo DS. It had an abysmal launch title selection, the best game available being a remake of an N64 game. It was quite a few months afterwards that the DS actually started to get a good amount of games for it. Now, it's got an excellent selection of great titles, and i think that's where Nintendo and Sony are going to be split. I can't see the PS3 bringing the kind of diversity to a console marketed at high end gamers, when the only think it will attract for the most part are horrible ports of movies, sports games, and stupid gimmicks like Eye Toy (as i mention eye toy, how the fuck can Sony call the Wiimote a gimmick) just like the ps2

MottZilla

06-04-2006, 12:57 PM

I don't know about SM64DS being the best game at launch or early on, but it was certainly the most well known. And it was a solid game. It had the quality and gem like status few games released on Sony's platforms get.

{DSG}DarkRaven

06-04-2006, 10:59 PM

Everything I can think of to say has been said, but I'll weigh in briefly on the Japanese resale thing... just a quick note, at least. Japanese copyright and resale laws, etc. are not the same as American laws. The resale business in Japan is not nearly as good because every time the game is transferred, you're supposed to pay royalties to the company or something, so it quickly loses it's value to retailers. Whereas in the good old USA, once something is bought, it's bought. At least until Sony blows a hole in the side of their "unsinkable" Playstation divison. PS3 codename: Titanic.

ZTC

06-05-2006, 01:22 PM

I could see Sony's demise when their system is launched. Bah... I've got $15 for Sony failing big time. Anybody else up for betting?

MottZilla

06-05-2006, 02:50 PM

Don't bet. Just watch. I certainly want to see what happens. If they crash and burn or limp out the starting gate, I wanna see it. In the news again is more news saying the RSX graphics chip isn't ready yet. Currently performing at like half what the Xbox 360's GPU can do. And more importantly the Cell processor chip still offer poor yeilds. I.E. they have no hope of mass production yet.

I'm just amazed how they push it as being so amazing yet it DOESN'T EXIST YET. All games either run on crippled dev kits or PCs. There are no retail models or anything close. Blu-ray is about the only thing we know they can do as it's already done.

But, there's still several months left. It'll be interesting to see.

{DSG}DarkRaven

06-05-2006, 02:51 PM

I don't bet over the internet anymore. I made a bet here on AGN a few years ago, and I forget who it was, but they held me to it for weeks. Or, they tried, anyway. I don't need that again.

I don't think Sony will fail. In reality, I just don't think a complete console failure is possible, not even after all Sony has done to botch the PS3. But I do think that there's a very high possibility that it will end up as #3 in the running, unless they pull some crazy antics with marketing, pricing, hardware, and software. So, everything, really.

Master Ghaleon

06-07-2006, 10:49 AM

I don't bet over the internet anymore. I made a bet here on AGN a few years ago, and I forget who it was, but they held me to it for weeks. Or, they tried, anyway. I don't need that again.

lol it was me

Pineconn

06-07-2006, 02:31 PM

I don't think Sony will fail. In reality, I just don't think a complete console failure is possible, not even after all Sony has done to botch the PS3. But I do think that there's a very high possibility that it will end up as #3 in the running, unless they pull some crazy antics with marketing, pricing, hardware, and software. So, everything, really.

Dreamcast. ;)

But really, you're right. I hope it would fail completely, but it probably wouldn't. It's Nintendo's time in the spotlight and Sony can't do anything to pull them out, even by slapping on that motion sensing thing last-minute. Basically, Nintendo is genuine, Sony pretty much isn't.

Warlock

06-07-2006, 05:05 PM

Dreamcast. ;)

But really, you're right. I hope it would fail completely, but it probably wouldn't. It's Nintendo's time in the spotlight and Sony can't do anything to pull them out, even by slapping on that motion sensing thing last-minute. Basically, Nintendo is genuine, Sony pretty much isn't.

Dreamcast wasn't exactly a failure, Sega was. They basically gambled everything on it being successful. It wasn't, and their company was screwed.

MottZilla

06-07-2006, 07:51 PM

Wrong Warlock, Sega was screwwed before DreamCast. They got alot of bad PR from the Sega 32X and the Saturn didn't do so well. They also had alot of fighting between the USA and Japanese branches. That is a big reason why the 32X flopped as it was Sega of USA's idea. But Sega of Japan didn't support it properly.

Anyways, pretty much Sega had over extended itself sometime after Sega CD. They had so many things they were working on (spending money on) that never amounted to anything. They eventually cut all their projects to focus only on the Sega Saturn and MegaDrive/Genesis core unit. But it was far too late. When DreamCast started out it was doomed. All that could have saved it was a booming success. Anything short just wasn't enough. Then they got hit pretty bad from piracy because of a hole allowing CD-Rs to boot with no modchip what-so-ever.

Warlock

06-08-2006, 01:55 AM