Curious about PSX/other early CD consoles and copywrite protection

[Mitsukara]

First off, I wasn't sure rather to post this in General Technology Discussion or General Gaming Discussion, so if it belongs there instead please feel free to move it. I figured it was included under Technology though, and this type of question seemed more in line with what seems to be discussed here.

Second, I'm sorry if this is somehow a violation of emulation discussion rules- I haven't been around much in the last couple years so I don't know how it stands; I don't mean to break any such rules, just to learn how the technology works. However, if the thread is closed I understand, as well.

So, my question is, if you were to, say, burn a PSX game ISO onto a CD and stick it in the system, the PSX goes "Blargh!" and doesn't play it. Is this because of copywrite protection, or an actual technical limitation such as PSX CDs being composed in a different fashion than normal CDs? Or both, perhaps? I'm also wondering, how does this work on other older CD consoles, like the PC-Engine and the Sega Saturn?

I've also been kind of curious as to the technology of modchips- how do they work, and what do they/can they do exactly? I know some basic stuff- can override region coding, etc, but not a whole lot in specific. Also, is it possible to obtain modchips for said other systems, or mostly just newer and/or more popular ones?

Part of what brought up this line of thought is that I did try to burn a copy of Dragon Warrior VII- a game I actually own a real copy of- to play briefly on my PS1 because there's a flaw on Disc 1 I've been unable to get around (cleaning, scratch remover, cleaning the lense- nothing worked), which causes a glitch wherein 5 buildings in one town never load- the screen just goes black and there's nothing to do but restart the game. Needless to say that kills an RPG, where you needed to talk to everybody at least once before you can progress. I've found a way to get around the glitch- sending my memory card out of state to where a relative could play through that part of the game on their copy for me- but the issue left me wondering about this subject quite a bit.

Any information or sources for researching such things would be greatly appreciated. :)

[goKi]

The reason the iso will not work is due to copyright protection, and a mod chip is exactly the thing that can correct this.

[MottZilla]

You're both wrong about copyright/copywrite protection. It's just "copy protection". When you have a PSX disc sectors at the beginning of an original disc are zeroed when infact that is incorrect/bad sectors. CD Writers since before they entered a real mainstream usage automatically correct these EDC/ECC errors while burning thus breaking your PSX copy because this makes your copy not have the bad sectors which the PSX drive looks for when validating CDs. Many new game systems work with similar protection schemes of bad sectors. Strangely there are still no real ways out there to burn 1:1 PSX copies when infact patching the firmware of a popular CD/DVD writer would be possible. I believe something similar can be applied to PS2.

Anyways, the modchip like goki said gets you around authentication. There are also swap tricks and swapping discs you could use. If you CAN read the CD correctly onto your PC, burn it to a good quality CD-R with a good quality writer. These are important. Then if you have a good PSX model or a GameShark Lite CD, you could easily swap the original Dragon Warrior disc with the copy that isn't damaged.

PC-Engine has no copy protection. NeoGeo CD doesn't either. Nor does Sega CD. All of those systems were long before the mass market consumer could get their hands on CD Writers. Sega Saturn's protection was quite good but was victim to a very nice modchip. Sega Saturn has a visual security ring on the outter rim of the disc reading something like Produced by or under license from Sega Ltd. When the drive went to authentic the disc it would scan for this ring. Coincidentally the first model Saturns were easy to swap trick because of this. I think you just started with your CD-R in the system, waited for the LED access light to blink a certain pattern, then you'd swap to the original and wait again while it checked the security ring, then swap to the CD-R.

I'm unaware of if 3DO had copy protection. Systems that are post-Saturn and PSX all have some form. GameCube has encrypted discs, with custom lead in/leadouts I believe.

Anyway, it all depends on your system model on what to do next. If you have a classic gray PSX you could get a spring (for holding down the lid sensor) and a swapping disc like GameShark Lite or a swapping Cartridge. If you have the PSOne or 9000 series PSX you can't use the cartridges, only a swapping disc. If you have a PS2 it gets more complicated to do swap tricks.

[Mitsukara]

Well, if a modchip that would work with the PS1 isn't more than, say, $30 total, perhaps I should just do that- it sounds like it might be the easiest, most dependable route and it would open up a number of options in the future for playing foreign games and such. If/when I get a Saturn I might do that as well, especially since I already know a foreign game I want for it.

So the PC-Engine and Sega CD and such would in theory play a copy just as well as a real disc? The bad sectors thing isn't an issue?

Thank you both for the response, it's very helpful. *bows*

[MottZilla]

You do realize it's not that simple right? Modchips involve precise soldering of wires with a soldering iron (not soldering gun which is bigger/more common). Installing modchips is the biggest drawback. That's why I suggest a cheat cartridge or swapping disc. They are alot less difficult and less dangerous than soldering a modchip.

[Mitsukara]

Oh... yes, that might be a bit out of my skill range. Still, I'd like to attempt it- at least on the Saturn- someday in the future. Perhaps by then I'll know someone who can help or something.

I guess I'll look into some other methods, in the meanwhile. As I said though, I've already got something temporary worked out to fix the problem (sending the memory card and all that), so this is mostly for future reference.

Anyway, thank you very much- I obviously am still without real experience, but having any more information on a subject is always valuable. I appreciate it :)

[MottZilla]

With the Saturn, you could probably do it. The Saturn requires 2 wires and plugging the mod into the CD ribbon socket, and the CD ribbon cable goes into the mod. Thus you have, CD Unit > CD Unit Ribbon Cable > Modchip > Socket on MotherBoard. Only 2 wires are required after that. One is +5v power which you don't "have" to solder to the power supply point. You could just do a good job of inserting the wire in the point and taping or even use glue. The only problem I had was the wire wasn't long enough. I got some extra wire, stripped it, then crimped it to the end of the wire from the mod. Crimps are awesome for those who want to avoid soldering.

My Saturn is modded with no soldering at all. 1 Crimp and some electrical tape.