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View Full Version : The "Next Big Thing" (Please read carefully)



idontknow
05-20-2006, 11:46 AM
Although there have been many suggestions for various little nick-nacks to add to zquest, many of which add to what we already have, we need a new idea as to what the NEXT BIG THING.

What we can we add that totally changes the gameplay and feel of the game? In the past we added animation, then combo cycling, and now freeform combos. Originally there were only 8 weapons to use (i think?) and now we have much more. Even the subscreens have evolved numerous times. So we need something exciting to add and here's my proposition:

Depth! By this i mean being able to change the 3rd demension of certain combos or sprites. For example, making Link jump and having combos he can leap over or being able to jump to avoid damage combos. This could bring about Roc's Feather that everyone's been wanting.

Or having Link change the layer he is on via a new combo type, and with this, it changes his walkability as well. This would allow for easier Over-and-Under Bridges, or catwalks in dungeons. One moment Link walks around town beneath the clouds & after climbing a ladder, he can then walk on the clouds!

And could adding a sense of depth also mean making falling items? It would be cool to make items actually leap out of bushes like in Wind Waker. Or after a cutscene, you could make an item such as the master sword slowly fall from the sky or fall down a beam of light.

Perhaps have keese change layers by diving down and only when they do so do they damage Link, rather than flying above him and causing damage, which is bad enough but moreso when using shadows. It looks horribly wrong that a flying keese can hurt Link when above him, likewise that his sword can kill the keese.

And finally, we could perhaps make Link pick up things to hold over his head and carry. This would lead to a whole new way of playing, for example:

We could have Boulder combos. They act kinda like bushes in that after 'breaking', you could get a rupee or heart from them and they have their own crumbling animation, except instead of being slashed, they can be picked up, thrown, and then break. Additionally, we could have Heavy & Heavy 2 Boulders that may only be picked up once we have the L1 & L2 Bracelets.

Perhaps we could have Lift Blocks (via flags) that we can lift over our heads and then drop onto Block Trigger flags, or other objects we can lift, drop or throw. Some break after throwing, some don't.

A quest rule so when you use a bomb or superbomb, it appears above Link's head rather than beneath him and he can toss or drop them. Also, perhaps when colliding with enemies the bomb explodes and the enemy gets hurt.

And finally, perhaps we could have Bomb Flower combos, which ignite upon lifting. We can then throw them and when they explode, they trigger bomb flags. They also explode when shot with an arrow or when a bomb flower next to it explodes (like a chain reaction like in Dodongo's Cavern of OoT) Bomb Flowers can be used to activate bomb triggers from a distance, like across a large gap, or such triggers when Link doesn't have bombs.

What are your thoughts about adding Depth as the "Next Big Thing"?

Freedom
05-20-2006, 01:07 PM
I'd like to see the Z3 style scrolling.

redmage777
05-20-2006, 02:01 PM
idontknow that cirtainly would make a huge differance in the way the game is played AND (accorting to the Beta reports)a Z Value already exists to enable this. It is cirtainlly a revolutionary idea in terms of world design in ZQuest.

My Idea is geared more toward Custom bosses, traps and enemys:

The ability for Quest makers to link Special Effects like Fires, bomb blasts, Clippings, And Dins Fire to the map its self via Combos or Flags. A wide selection of "Statue" Type would be nice as well. This would allow for several cool things to happen.

1.) Custom Bossses could now have Death animations with sound, much like LttP bosses. Imagine the custom boss goes down in a blaze of glory with a dozen or so explosions and the a "Dins Fire" ring erupts from it's center the moment it explodes leaving a heart container in the center?

2.) Traps such as the Mines in Lttp or Feilds of grass setting on fire ala Fourswords could also be possable.

The statues that shoot differant projectiles (Magic, Fire2, 3-Fireballs, Arrows, Swords, ect.) allong with inherant flags and Freeform combos will allow for some really cool custom enemys.

And another suggestion that I've made in the past (a have had ignored every time) is an Armos2 Combo that turns into whatever enemy is in slot one on the list. Perhaps a screen flag to "Hide Enemy 1" would go nicely with this.

Not all thses things will blow player out of the water on their own, but in the hands of a skilled quest maker the possabilities are mind blowing.

Nimono
05-20-2006, 04:03 PM
Here's some extra things to add onto your falling items idea:
1: Allow Items to be affected by combos. Think about it. In A Link to the Past (and other games, like The Minish Cap), items that were revealed sometimes fell into pits. The closest we currently have to that is the Direct Warp combo. If this was added, items would be affected by warp combos (and I think they're already affected by conveyors), water combos (thus making you have to dive for them, and they make a "splash" when they fall in), and shallow water combos (they would use the same tiles for when Link walks on Shallow Water). If the land on warp combos, they instantly warp to whatever screen the tile warp is set to go to. Also:
2: Allow items to be triggered by combos. If this was added, we could press a button to make an item fall, like in A Link to the Past. Put that with my above idea, and you could make some tricky areas, like a room where the player presses a switch, and a key falls in a pit. However, the pit is on the other side of the room, and you can't reach that area yet, so you go through the dungeon and find the door, but you can't get in because you don't have the dungeon item(s). Then, you go looking for it/them, and use it/them to get the key that fell, but if you don't enter from the exact spot the key fell from, you don't get the key! Instead, you have to do it all over again (except getting the items)!

WindStrike
05-20-2006, 07:51 PM
I like a lot of these ideas that you guys think are putting up, but I think you may be forgetting something. It's Zelda Classic. There needs to be a more classic feel of the game, rather than adding so many that end up changing the way it is completely. So... some of the things you put (just a few of them), like the 3-dish stuff or the enemy attacking you, and stuff like that... well, it's kinda not-so-classic. As for the boulder idea... that's purely "opinionated." I really don't know about this stuff. Right now, 2.11 is made to bring improvements to ZC, not entirely change it. Bringing in stuff that'll change it should probably be down the road. Just my opinion... but yes, those little item ideas are just too tempting for 2.11.

Nimono
05-20-2006, 08:47 PM
I like a lot of these ideas that you guys think are putting up, but I think you may be forgetting something. It's Zelda Classic. There needs to be a more classic feel of the game, rather than adding so many that end up changing the way it is completely. So... some of the things you put (just a few of them), like the 3-dish stuff or the enemy attacking you, and stuff like that... well, it's kinda not-so-classic. As for the boulder idea... that's purely "opinionated." I really don't know about this stuff. Right now, 2.11 is made to bring improvements to ZC, not entirely change it. Bringing in stuff that'll change it should probably be down the road. Just my opinion... but yes, those little item ideas are just too tempting for 2.11.
Only the developers know what's in store for ZC next, while we are left in the darkness. For all we know, the next full version of Zelda Classic could transform it from Zelda Classic to Zelda 3 Classic. Or it could turn it into a combo. I don't really know what's coming next. I can, however, say this: I have a strong feeling that the Roc's Feather will be in the next version.

Radien ZC
05-21-2006, 12:42 AM
I'd like to see the Z3 style scrolling.
I would too, but it's such a revolutionary change that they would probably have to start over from scratch. The current ZQuest is based so intrinsically on the screen-by-screen layout that so many of the flags and such would be thrown a curveball from such a change. I don't know about the programming aspect, but I bet it would at least require a complete GUI design overhaul.


I like a lot of these ideas that you guys think are putting up, but I think you may be forgetting something. It's Zelda Classic. There needs to be a more classic feel of the game, rather than adding so many that end up changing the way it is completely.
True, it is Zelda "Classic," but if you look at the pattern of new features that have been added over the years, about 1/2 of their progress has been used to make ZC function more like LTTP than Zelda 1. Diagonal movement, the hookshot, the hammer, super bombs, sparkle effects, Z3 animations, Z3-style item grabbing, Z3 subscreens... you get the picture.

Most of the suggestions in this thread have to do with LTTP, so I don't think they are all that unreasonable, even the "Armos reveals enemies" one (enemies occasionally hid under bushes in LTTP). It's just that some suggestions will be much more useful and/or plausible than others.

I've already made my main suggestion: fix old features before getting too excited about adding new ones. Beyond that, I've already made most of my suggestions in previous threads.

Tygore
05-21-2006, 12:55 AM
Although it is Zelda Classic, you have to remember that as a Zelda 1 clone ZC has been complete for some time now. While I doubt it will ever become a perfect Z3 clone, all that's really left is bells and whistles.

DarkDragon
05-21-2006, 02:29 AM
Don't get me wrong, I admire the innovation exhibited by quest creators who have done remarkable things with the tools they've been given, but bona-fide support for true custom bosses, multiple secrets and warp destinations per screen, intelligent NPCs, and dungeon-wide combos can hardly be considered "bells and whistles."

redmage777
05-21-2006, 08:08 PM
I was thinking about IDK depth idea and came up with one of my own. We could give each screen a "Z" value and have link "Drop in" when ever he enters a room via Pit warp. The differance between Z Values would determine how far link will fall to the spot when he enters the room. With some clever use of Pit warps, Jumpable cliffs would be quite easy as well.

Other Screen flags to consider:
A screen flag to enable or disable link from Dropping in on that screen.
One allowing the Enemys to Drop in at a given time as well maybe after so many Ticks and/or when a secret is triggered.
One to damage Link whin he "Drops in"
And one Allow Items to be Dropped in.

Mega Link
07-14-2006, 10:40 AM
For all we know, the next full version of Zelda Classic could transform it from Zelda Classic to Zelda 3 Classic.
That's what I was thinking that the "Big Secret" was.

beefster09
07-15-2006, 03:54 PM
I would really like to see the multiple screen subscreen, and maybe better use for the misc items, (like a counter) maybe even masks, like ones that you wear. Improved walk flags would be great though. (4x4 in pixels or true diagonals would work)

Radien ZC
07-19-2006, 05:40 AM
For all we know, the next full version of Zelda Classic could transform it from Zelda Classic to Zelda 3 Classic.
That's what I was thinking that the "Big Secret" was.
Keep in mind that so far, every version of Zelda Classic has been initially designed to function just like the last one, for the most part, if you so choose to bipass the new features.

In order to truly be a "Zelda 3 Classic," a new editor may be in order. In order to be "backwards compatible," there would have to be two different GUI modes to accomodate the new and the old. I'm willing to bet that they'd rather start over with a completely new interface than try to incorporate it into the old one.

Is this possible? I'm not saying it isn't. But if/when they do it, they will probably change the version number to a "ZC version 3.XX" of some sort. Right now, however, the next beta is slated to be "ZC version 2.11 beta 11." Unless they're doing that just the throw us a curveball, it's likely that it will be a major new feature that still uses the same core engine, however upgraded it may be.

Master_of_Power
07-19-2006, 10:21 AM
I like a lot of these ideas that you guys think are putting up, but I think you may be forgetting something. It's Zelda Classic. There needs to be a more classic feel of the game, rather than adding so many that end up changing the way it is completely.

Yes, it is Zelda Classic, but look around, how many things in Zelda Classic aren't in Legend of Zelda? A lot, right? Zelda Classic is more than a remake of a NES game, its a remake of a NES game WITH enhancements. These enhancments vary from LTTP items, and styles all the way up to OoT. I think Zelda Classic can still adhere to the original NES Legend of Zelda feel WITHOUT being restricted to it.