A few 2.11 questions

[Radien ZC]

Hi there... forgive me if this is not a good forum for questions about beta "how-to"s, but I can't find any threads on the topics I'm about to list, let alone tutorials or a tileset.

I've been looking over this beta, and considering using it for Dance of Remembrance. However, search as I may, I can find no place that shows the proper graphics layout for the Z3 subscreen. Currently it has just displayed a bunch of garbage from a page of overworld tiles. However, most of it is from the same tile page. That makes me think I should be putting something there, because the tiles are nowhere near the location of my selected "map styles" graphics.

So, how do I properly lay out Z3 subscreen graphics?

Second question: enlarged Link sprites. It should be possible in this beta, yes? Then how do I enable this?...

Last question: I've heard that "true arrows" enables the use of actual arrow ammo instead of rupees. However, I enabled "true arrows," and the Z3 subscreen. Then I gave Link the Arrow, a Bow, and actual arrow ammo, but I still couldn't fire arrows. What gives?...

Thanks for bearing with me. I hope I can post some useful results in return for any help I might get.

[Nicholas Steel]

check the development forum it contains all that is neccesary for z3 subscreen.

bow/arrow/quiver only works in current beta if link picks the items up rather then starting with them.

[Freedom]

Subscreen Information

Z3 subscreen described in detail (http://www.armageddongames.net/showpost.php?p=1051090&postcount=9)

Z3 subscreen demo quest (http://darknation.armageddongames.net/zc/subscreen.qst)

For big Link,
Go into Graphics>Link and press on the link sprite box and press x
press once for 32x16 and twice for 32x32

True Arrows I haven't used, but you need a quiver to be able to pick up arrows, there are 3 quiver sizes, each allowing you to pick up more, I think it's 10, 20, and 30, but don't quote me on that.

[Love For Fire]

True Arrows: Arrows do not appear on the counter until you have the Quiver, Bow AND Arrow. The Quiver sizes are 30, 60, and 99 in case you feel like using them.

[Dlbrooks33]

does the arrow counter only appear on the z-3 subscreen?

[Nicholas Steel]

yes.

[Radien ZC]

Okay, after following those links and also doing a fair bit of searching, I found most of what I needed. Thanks for the references. I'm not used to using forums where the posts have a chance to "expire" from the default listing, and I have yet to find a Search function on this forum, so I was having some trouble.


bow/arrow/quiver only works in current beta if link picks the items up rather then starting with them.
Actually, I tested this, and that's not entirely true. You don't have to pick up the bow and arrow manually. You DO have to pick up the quiver manually. And since you can't hold any arrows until you pick up the quiver, you also have to pick up the ammo manually. Really, I don't know why they didn't just give you a default quiver size upon picking up the Arrow item... I'll have to rethink my use of item sprites.

One other arrow question, if you don't mind: how DO you refill your ammo? Will arrows eventually appear after defeating some enemies? I have yet to encounter any that drop arrows, but then, I've only tested a bit.


For big Link,
Go into Graphics>Link and press on the link sprite box and press x
press once for 32x16 and twice for 32x32
Ha, I wouldn't have guessed that. Thanks, I've had some success with it. :)

[Nicholas Steel]

there is no free search function here.

[Freedom]

There is a quest rule concerning arrows, you may need to check that to get enemies to drop arrows, I'm not sure though, I haven't done anything with the arrows or the Z3 subscreen in my quest, so I haven't personally tested those two yet.
I didn't figure DN was completely done with those yet, so I left them for later.

[Dlbrooks33]

I tested that. Whe he released the Subscreen quest for the z-3 subscreen, I was testing out the arrow ammunition. So far, none of the enemies have been dropping arrows. (TO Jman and Other Developers:Could you kindly fix that in the next release, please and thanks ;)).

[redmage777]

I supose Armos is a good canidate for droping arrows (In LA they always dropped 1 arrow or 1 bomb) since they drop nothing at the moment.

[Nimono]

Why not change "Slash->Item" to also give Bomb ammo, Super Bomb ammo, and Arrow ammo? That's what you could get from them in The Minish Cap, AND A Link to the Past (minus the Super Bomb, of course).

[Radien ZC]

there is no free search function here.
Okay. By "free search function" do you mean do you mean "open-ended search function," or is there some sort of paid account I have yet to hear about?

*looks at own post count* Dang, I need to visit here more often, regardless...


There is a quest rule concerning arrows, you may need to check that to get enemies to drop arrows, I'm not sure though, I haven't done anything with the arrows or the Z3 subscreen in my quest, so I haven't personally tested those two yet.
I didn't figure DN was completely done with those yet, so I left them for later.
Yes, the rule is called "True Arrows." I'm not sure if checking the rule does anything at the moment, but right now it doesn't seem to cause enemies to drop arrows. I don't know whether it will eventually cause arrow drops, the way "Enable Magic" causes magic bottles to be dropped.


I supose Armos is a good canidate for droping arrows (In LA they always dropped 1 arrow or 1 bomb) since they drop nothing at the moment.
That sounds like a good suggestion to me, but once the feature is fully supported, I imagine that many enemies will drop arrows. Playing a game where ammo for a quick, weak combat item is hard to come by is both strange and annoying.


Why not change "Slash->Item" to also give Bomb ammo, Super Bomb ammo, and Arrow ammo? That's what you could get from them in The Minish Cap, AND A Link to the Past (minus the Super Bomb, of course).
First of all, I think the designers of ZC always intended Super Bombs to be difficult to come by. So far, the only enemy I know of that drops them is Dodongos, and that only happens if you kill one by feeding it a Super Bomb.

Secondly, if past experience is any clue, I'm willing to bet that if a new type of item-producing combo is introduced, rather than alter an old type, they will add a new combo type ("Bush - Ammo"?). This is not only probably easier to incorporate and better for backwards-compatibility, but it also provides users with more options.

[koopa]

The search function is only accessible to premium (paying) members.

Some way to get arrows will have to be made, I guess it'll come in a future version. As of now the only true arrows you get are the ones placed as items.

Super bombs are, in my opinion, indeed a "rare" item that you should only get where and when the quest creator intends you to. Dodongos only drop one if you kill them with one, so you can't "gain" any there.

[Nimono]

First of all, I think the designers of ZC always intended Super Bombs to be difficult to come by. So far, the only enemy I know of that drops them is Dodongos, and that only happens if you kill one by feeding it a Super Bomb.

Secondly, if past experience is any clue, I'm willing to bet that if a new type of item-producing combo is introduced, rather than alter an old type, they will add a new combo type ("Bush - Ammo"?). This is not only probably easier to incorporate and better for backwards-compatibility, but it also provides users with more options.
Well, there could be a feature to increase/decrease the drop rate of Super Bombs for combos you can slash to get items. Normally, it'd have to be really rare to find Super Bombs, and you could only get them if, of course, you had the Item in your Inventory. But that brings up a suggestion:
Can the Bombs and Super Bombs still have their icons "saved" onto the subscreen? They'd only appear when you first got the item, but this way, it could let you get ammo for the items even after you run out. If not, then you wouldn't be able to find ammo until you get more, which would be annoying, especially if you're far from a shop selling them.

[Love For Fire]

As of now, no enemies or bushes drop Arrows yet as a pick-up. The developers would have to put that in a future beta (if they didn't fix it already). The only way around it is to have a bunch of shops with arrows, and many pick-ups in the dungeons.

[Radien ZC]

The search function is only accessible to premium (paying) members.
Hmm, okay. I may look into a paid account, then, once I get my next paycheck. ^_^ Not because I intend to use AGN constantly, but because I've been using ZC itself quite extensively without paying anything for it. I assume the money goes straight to the ZC developers, yes? (even if it all ends up going towards site bandwidth)


Super bombs are, in my opinion, indeed a "rare" item that you should only get where and when the quest creator intends you to. Dodongos only drop one if you kill them with one, so you can't "gain" any there.
Exactly.


Well, there could be a feature to increase/decrease the drop rate of Super Bombs for combos you can slash to get items. Normally, it'd have to be really rare to find Super Bombs, and you could only get them if, of course, you had the Item in your Inventory.
You never find a bomb bag for Super Bombs, and the maximum number of Super Bombs is 2. So by that criteria, you could only get one if you already had one, and then after the 2nd one, that'd be all you could carry. It sounds really awkward to me.

Basically, I don't think Super Bombs will truly be treated as "ammo" unless a Super Bomb Bag is made. As it stands, they work a lot like the powder keg does in Majora's Mask: in a typical quest, there might be an out-of-the-way store that sells them...but the player will have to use them sparingly, or else trek all the way back for a refill.


But that brings up a suggestion:
Can the Bombs and Super Bombs still have their icons "saved" onto the subscreen? They'd only appear when you first got the item, but this way, it could let you get ammo for the items even after you run out. If not, then you wouldn't be able to find ammo until you get more, which would be annoying, especially if you're far from a shop selling them.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would you carry ammo before you have a place to store it?


...Incidentally, another question: will bombs be dropped if no bomb bag has been obtained? Or are bomb bags just an alternate method of upgrading your existing "max bombs" number?

[redmage777]

I think Bomb bags are Both a way of increasing the number of bombs link can carry AND a way to enable him to carry them. Also, I've always been under the impression that the number of Super Bombs link could carry was 1/4 the number of bombs he could carry. However, I've only been able to test this using cheats.

Link typicaly starts with a Max of 8, 1/4 of 8 is 2 so if link gets a bomb up grade he can now carry 3. But, having gotten burned the first time for attempting to buy a 3rd bomb, many players will not risk it again, unless they are told they can.

[CastChaos]

But, having gotten burned the first time for attempting to buy a 3rd bomb, many players will not risk it again, unless they are told they can.

It was the same with me...

Wow, how long ago I were here! I want to ask now that it can mess up things if the player don't get the bow, quiver and arrow in a certain order?

[Radien ZC]

I think Bomb bags are Both a way of increasing the number of bombs link can carry AND a way to enable him to carry them.
Yes, but in all Zelda games to date, an ammo type does not appear in item drops until you have a means of carrying it.

I can imagine the player's annoyance and confusion if, by some rare chance, an early Oktorok drops bombs, and picking them up does not add to your bomb inventory. This is how I currently have it set, and even though I intend to make bombs available early on, I'd rather have no bomb drops until the bomb bag item is acquired.


Also, I've always been under the impression that the number of Super Bombs link could carry was 1/4 the number of bombs he could carry. However, I've only been able to test this using cheats.

Link typicaly starts with a Max of 8, 1/4 of 8 is 2 so if link gets a bomb up grade he can now carry 3. But, having gotten burned the first time for attempting to buy a 3rd bomb, many players will not risk it again, unless they are told they can.
Ahh!! You may be right. I will keep that in mind. ^_^

Yes, a text warning about the functionality of Super Bombs would be very beneficial. That's easy enough; I'll just put it in the dialog box for the shop that sells Super Bombs.

[koopa]

Link typicaly starts with a Max of 8, 1/4 of 8 is 2 so if link gets a bomb up grade he can now carry 3. But, having gotten burned the first time for attempting to buy a 3rd bomb, many players will not risk it again, unless they are told they can.


I guess displaying bombs as "3/4" (current/total) or something on the subscreen would solve that problem.


I assume the money goes straight to the ZC developers, yes?
Yeah, I'm getting rich already :)
Seriously, no, premium membership goes entirely towards the AGN forums. Developing ZC is an unpaid job, ZC is completely free, and you don't have to feel you have to pay for using it. Contributions to the forums are very welcome, of course.
Nintendo would probably not be too pleased if we were earning money for/with the program, as a free fan project they don't care though.

[Rakki]

Y'know, a color-change for counters for when they get full would resolve the issue of wondering whether or not you can buy another Super Bomb. :p