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ShadowTiger
02-27-2006, 12:20 PM
Essentially, jman (And others. :p ) have expressed their wishes that a new DemoQuest be created which would display all, if not most of the newest features in ZC. The quest will be called "NeoFirst.qst" and it will be similar to Demo quest in design. (Though not in layout.) It will use as many features as possible, have three dungeons, (For the "Triforce." ;-p ) And will be between moderate to hard on the difficulty scale.

Therefore, what we need to do will take place in the following steps, in pretty much this order.


Discuss what this quest will need to accomplish and exhibit.
Figure out if we're doing a: 1) NewFirst replacement. 2) DemoQuest Sequel. 3) Whole new quest.
Find a useful tileset as well as tiles which will facilitate that need.
2x2 Link.
ALTTP Style Movement complete with frames for the 2x2 Link.
Tiles for a Custom boss which will be discussed later.

Once we have the tileset, we'll need to plan it out. An overworld, complete with at least three themes (Winter area, Spring Area, Swamp, etc. Can be anything, really. Anything at all.) will be necessary. (8x8 minimum, 32x16 maximum, though something closer to the minimum would be nice. :p )
Three dungeons will be made. One will be a dungeon of moderate difficulty. Something along the lines of any given level 6 (Out of 8.) from any random quest. It will be your average key-quest dungeon, maybe one or two gimmicks, but nothing major. It will exhibit the abilities of the Treasure Chests, and the Lockblock Combos, and Tiered Combos. (Which were technically already in, but it's still nice to use them.) They'll be using the Reset combo, of course.
A second dungeon will be somewhat more difficult. The Gimmick will be its primary focus here. It can be any of the stereotypical:
Forest Temple - Plant vines to ascend, burn trees to continue, play music to make things happen. Water Temple - Raise and lower water levels to go around the temple. Shadow Temple - A Temple filled with illusionary walls, items, sprites, and things to make your skin crawl. Undead optional. Fire Temple - Watch where you step. Possibly an Elevation-based dungeon. YOUR IDEA HERE
A Final Dungeon which will feature Ganondorf (Or just Ganon, who knows.) as the final boss. It will be a penultimate dungeon, which will require all of your mental processes to maneuver around, as it will make exceptional use of just about every new feature which can be used toward the dungeon. It'll definitely either be something non-conventional, such as a corrupted Bastion of Angels, ... or the extreme stereotype of the "Final Dungeon Of ur head asplode x 1,000,000." Something like that. Demo Quest was pretty difficult, but not unbeatable, ... and it impressed hundreds, if not thousands over the years. NeoFirst should do the same, only moreso.
We'll need to assemble a team of developers to help create the many aspects of this quest. We'll need:
Builders - People to actually construct the quest within ZQuest.
Planners - Creative people to map out the overworlds and the dungeons so they won't be randomly drawn when the time comes to create them. DFW would be wonderful for this, I think, but that's only one of many whos name pops up.
Graphics Artists - (*b*, C-Dawg, Radien, Petoe, Myself, etc.) Tile/Pixel artists who are willing to design the custom graphics for the quest. From what I believe, Gashin (*b*) has been nice enough to lend us his own tileset for NeoFirst. Now we just need the Custom Boss. We'll also need tiles for whatever we plan out for the future, but that comes later.
Midis - We'll need midis for the quest. The thing is, this comes much later for when we have just about 100% of the quest's themes done. A good mood makes or break a quest, and the music makes or breaks the mood.
Quest Testers - This will come much, much later, obviously. We'll need a few people to test for bugs, and to make sure that it's at least playable. We'll need two types of testers:
Bug Testers - Very diligent people who look in every crack and crevice looking for the occasional blank undercombo, or continue bug, etc.
Difficulty Testers - A few brave souls who will go through the quest without any assistance or cheat codes whatsoever, who will see if the quest is playable by the intermediate players out there, and at least able to be admired from a relative distance by the TLOZ Newbies out there.
When the quest is done, we'll need a little bit of space to upload the files to. We'll also need a few tantalizing screenshots. Maybe even someone to write up a brief FAQ for the quest could help a little with that.

So, what are everyones' thoughts? Remember, this quest is meant to be two things:
A Demo Quest for the new generation of ZC.
An exhibition as to most, if not all, of ZC's new features.

If you think you're hot stuff, please consider applying. ;-D A visual record of your work is also greatly appreciated.

Anthus
02-27-2006, 01:41 PM
hi im nu can i help!!!!!?!??!!?!?

:p :p

I saw your topic over at Pure, and this really interests me :) Graphically, I can't offer you more than what I already have in the database at Pure since you can sprite a lot better than me anyway, but I could help with actual design.

I have a few questions and comments myself though:

Will there be other, smaller dungeons for certain items?
Will the entire overworld be explorable from the start (Like the original Zelda) Or will parts be blocked off by certain items needed to proceed?
Instead of an 8x8, or 16x32, why don't you just use a normal 16x8 :p

I want to help out with this because I want to get familiar with the new features as soon as I can so I can begin to incorporate them into the future of my own quest(s).

On the subject of the overworld once more, you were talking about regions? How's about the "normal" mountain which could be used as fire/ lava or snow/ ice or both :). A forest/ swamp, but the last one should be something different and creative that will really stand out and showcase some stuff. What about some vast underworld dimension, or perhaps a flying crystal fortress? And where would the player start? Perhaps a neutral, central field area? Perhaps you could make each dungeon hold a major item absolutely required to enter the next area of the overworld, or better yet, make the dungeon item get you into a secret. mini dungeon which holds the item needed to go on...

But... ...these are only ideas ... ... ...

ShadowTiger
02-27-2006, 02:07 PM
This really interests me :) Graphically, I can't offer you more than what I already have in the database at here since you can sprite a lot better than me anyway, but I could help with actual design.That would be wonderful. :) When I design quests, I usually end up winging a lot of the actual physical areas and such. It'd be really nice to know what we'd be doing before we do it. I don't want to slap down a really nice area, then not have it "connect" with other areas.


Replies in Bold to the following:
I have a few questions and comments myself though:
Will there be other, smaller dungeons for certain items? I hadn't thought of this, really. I have no idea whatsoever what we'd be doing in terms of the items, but I -think- they'd have to do with the dungeons. I probably want the second dungeon (Actually, the third.) to be fairly non-linear. The items and their placement will definitely have something to do with that. I have a sample of the third dungeon style on my computer that I should upload eventually.
Will the entire overworld be explorable from the start (Like the original Zelda) Or will parts be blocked off by certain items needed to proceed? I sort of doubt that. If it IS available, then the first few screens within the next dungeon Will NOT be accessible if you haven't completed the previous dungeon. I think that's how I'll set it up. However, you will probably be able to get into at least a few screens of the next dungeon if you haven't completed the previous. ... So yes, I suppose the overworld will be totally accessible to you. However, a few areas won't be, but they'll only be single screens. Of course, it'll be up to you to realize that you'll be walking into a red-ring or higher area without any ring at all, and be aware of the risks regarding such an endeavor.
Instead of an 8x8, or 16x32, why don't you just use a normal 16x8 :P This has to do with the design of the quest. :P I do kinda want to get the world themes all fleshed out and theorized before we start designing the actual screens. It's nice to get a sense of size, depth, and perspective of each area before you begin so you'll know how big you need to make everything else.
I want to help out with this because I want to get familiar with the new features as soon as I can so I can begin to incorporate them into the future of my own quest(s).Ah, this is most wise. The creative soul will learn much on his journey towards knowledge, ironically enough. ... ... No, actually, that's just how you get there. ^-^' *lol* Silly me.


On the subject of the overworld once more, you were talking about regions? How's about the "normal" mountain which could be used as fire/ lava or snow/ ice or both :). IMHO, a "Normal" mountain wouldn't have any of them. ;) The most it'd have are falling rocks, and a pocketload of Lynels and Tektites. Those areas are far too uninteresting, In my opinion. At most, I'd have like, ... four or five screens of such an area. Possibly as a brief connector area to other, more themed mountainous areas which would also connect to other places.
A forest/ swamp, but the last one should be something different and creative that will really stand out and showcase some stuff.Always. :P At least one of those two -will- be in the quest, without a doubt.
What about some vast underworld dimension, or perhaps a flying crystal fortress? And where would the player start? Perhaps a neutral, central field area?Relate the area I underlined to everything else underlined there, and you'll have a sense of what goes on in my head. You might even start there, leave, then go back there to finish the game. Thoughts? A central area though, ... well, there'll obviously be one. It might not be that big though, as once more, ... they're fairly boring.
Perhaps you could make each dungeon hold a major item absolutely required to enter the next area of the overworld, or better yet, make the dungeon item get you into a secret. mini dungeon which holds the item needed to go on...The former, I mentioned already. The latter, though, ... that, I like. It'd be a little bit more complex, but I do like the theory of not hiding a crucial item within the dungeon itself. Doing that would be like putting the key to your prison cell on the wall of the cell juuuuust out of your reach. Obviously, that's not realistic. Granted, none of this is realistic, but that doesn't mean we have to trash realism as a whole.Replied at Pure. :p

Anthus
02-27-2006, 02:43 PM
I suppose I can officially apply for some stuff then :)

Just a little note before I start listing things, maybe we should get a few more people before anything is actually finalized...


Sketching (Literally, sketching, as in draw and scan) some "beta" maps of what ever you want, but I'm assuming more people will jump on this since its only been a couple hours since you posted this :p).

Of course, I can also draw screens in ZC (Though I prefer overworld to dungeon screens) and I will say I am pretty good at that :D

Much later down the road, I would love to beta test (preferably the difficulty portion).

Dart Zaidyer
02-27-2006, 02:47 PM
If this is supposed to be a showcase of ZC's various features, then we should use other music formats instead of just midi. To not do so would be like endorsing the idea that they don't matter, which has been a curiously prevalent notion ever since their introduction in response to everyone asking for them.

ShadowTiger
02-27-2006, 04:07 PM
I suppose I can officially apply for some stuff then :)

Just a little note before I start listing things, maybe we should get a few more people before anything is actually finalized...


Sketching (Literally, sketching, as in draw and scan) some "beta" maps of what ever you want, but I'm assuming more people will jump on this since its only been a couple hours since you posted this :p). Of course, I can also draw screens in ZC (Though I prefer overworld to dungeon screens) and I will say I am pretty good at that :D Much later down the road, I would love to beta test (preferably the difficulty portion).Heh, not a problem. :p I think that the people who would be best suited for building the quest, are people with a LOT of time on their hands. I'm in my Upper Sophomore year of College, and I don't even have a major yet, ... and although my Friday nights into Saturdays are totally free, for the most part, every other time during the week isn't ideal for me to be in ZC nor ZQuest. Sketching some plans for dungeons would be great, but remember, they need to be top quality. They need to surpass even Revenge 2 Dungeons. They need to even surpass Mr. Z's dungeons, and frankly, that's not an easy feat. Not by a longshot.


If this is supposed to be a showcase of ZC's various features, then we should use other music formats instead of just midi. To not do so would be like endorsing the idea that they don't matter, which has been a curiously prevalent notion ever since their introduction in response to everyone asking for them.MP3s are out though. Too big. (Actually, it'd depend on the MP3, as well as its use. An MP3 for the final boss music should be done, I'd say.) As for the rest, SPCs would make good themes, don't you think? We'll plan that out in the later stages with mood.

firefly
02-27-2006, 07:23 PM
I'd like to help, i'm not a n00b, I started playing since 1.00 (or the version with the bug that allowed a player getting free items when buying bombs), and I've made 2 quests that I didn't released, I'd like to Beta Test the quest, I'll leave the quest to the experts...
Anyway, I have an idea:


When you get the 'Boss Key', 'Compass' OR the 'Map' use a Boss Flag to turn the dungeon different, Example: When you get the Map, the traps will start moving.




A second dungeon will be somewhat more difficult. The Gimmick will be its primary focus here. It can be any of the stereotypical: Forest Temple - Plant vines to ascend, burn trees to continue, play music to make things happen. Water Temple - Raise and lower water levels to go around the temple. Shadow Temple - A Temple filled with illusionary walls, items, sprites, and things to make your skin crawl. Undead optional. Fire Temple - Watch where you step. Possibly an Elevation-based dungeon. YOUR IDEA HERE

I have 2 ideas:

Wind Temple - Wind, Peahats, conveyors and Armos are par of the Dungeon, Idea from Wind Waker.

Stone Temple - Gibdos, Keese, Pits and "Bombchus" are in this temple, Idea from Majora's Mask.

I know these aren't the best ideas...
You should post a poll for selecting the Dungeon after you get enough suggestions.

Jigglysaint
02-27-2006, 08:05 PM
If you lower the bitate, MP3's shouldn't take too much space, but yeah, only like 1 or 2, and nothing copyrighted just in case.

*b*
02-28-2006, 12:58 AM
as was mentioned, my tileset can be used for this, and should be easy to use, since it's based of the original Zelda, which used no layers (this uses layers, but very few). I could also make the Link sprite, since I now know how to do it easily (after twelve attempts, you'd think I would). and I could make a palette that would utilize the new enhanced colors feature, for demonstration

Nick
02-28-2006, 01:26 AM
I think the Shadow Temple would be the most exploitable for features, myself. The Lens of Truth gets very little attention because people don't really know how to make it truly required. The stuff that PrinceMSC did in Revenge 2 was a step in the right direction, but it can get far more evil now that we have layers and stuff (invisible push blocks, for instance). :blah:

Regarding a major gimmick, moving the ferry of the dead around a "moat" that runs throughout the level might be fun? Granted that would use a load of secret combos unless you know what you are doing, I think that would be an interesting idea, still. :shrug:

Traps would also be fun (not the spike things... I mean actual traps). Yeah... be happy I've not made it to a difficult dungeon in my quest designs thus far. :evil:

Eh... these are just ideas I'm throwing out, though. :shrug:

Jigglysaint
02-28-2006, 02:10 AM
Don't forget that the new beta(really, we should wait for it) has save combos, combo flag attribution, mutiple warps, and whatever else there is.

Dlbrooks33
02-28-2006, 08:11 AM
the best tileset to use would be my edited zero tileset. It has every item and misc/eaopons (including Nayru's Love). But I'll have to post it up when i get my cord back...

ShadowTiger
02-28-2006, 09:54 AM
Dlbrooks33, you'd probably need to post screenshots. Gashin, (*b*) you too, please. By "Tileset," *b*, I'm imagining your Hyrule Fantasy tileset. However, that's yours, and probably isn't as available as my imagination makes it out to be. :p Screenshots of anything anyone has to offer would be most prime. Otherwise, we'd probably go with a somewhat modified Minish Cap Tileset, including tiles from Freedom's Adventure Tileset. He graciously offered up the use of many of his tiles.

Nick, a Shadow Temple would be a great idea. The use of the Lens of Truth would be a wonderful tool for backtracking. Very, very much. We'd need an infinite source of magic though. Perhaps a "pool" link can walk under which would contain an infinite amount of Magic(Large containers under a layer 3 canopy? That would be nifty. :p

Dart Zaidyer
02-28-2006, 10:55 AM
Anyone who plans to offer their tileset to this should keep in mind that it's going to get packed with ZC. Think twice if you don't want it to be freely rippable, because there will be people asking "How can I use this [email protected]!11".

ShadowTiger
02-28-2006, 11:18 AM
Anyone who plans to offer their tileset to this should keep in mind that it's going to get packed with ZC. Think twice if you don't want it to be freely rippable, because there will be people asking "How can I use this [email protected]!11".

We must also remember that the tileset will become "The New Newfirst." Everyone and everything that breathes, lives, and sort of thinks as well, will want to work within that tileset.

Therefore, it'll probably need to rely less on the graphics, and more on the ZC Tricks. The quest will be openable in ZQuest, and everything and anything can and will be used for everyone else's benefit. (The quest, in essense, will be Z-scavenged/|24|°3|).) So, it stands a good chance of becoming the new standard, or what NewFirst was.

The layering will need to be simplistic at most, since not many people know about it. Therefore, lots and lots of combo aliasing needs to be used, but without that much layering either. Trees can be layered, obviously, but weather effects, .. eh. Probably best to reply on palette changes for that. (Like the graveyard in TMC. That was mostly just ... purple.)

Orion
02-28-2006, 01:53 PM
I'll offer my LTTP tileset up, if someone wants to complete it and get it ready for 2.11 use. However, I don't know if it is gunna suit the needs for this quest, but I thought I'd offer one way or the other.

Otherwise, I vote Minish Cap set, since it really hasn't been too overused yet. Whatever works best for the quest, just make sure you find easy/convenient ways of showing off the new features. After all, what your talking about is really the flagship of Zelda Classic. Keep that in mind when you decide what to put in it, how complex to make it, and who/how many people you have working on it. We all know what having too many people work on one thing does..

C-Dawg
02-28-2006, 02:11 PM
The tileset should probably be a variant of the Pure set. I'm sure that the folks over at PureZC can easily whip together something borrowing from all the excellent tile artists there.

I'm happy to help out on this, but you might just want to assign two or three dungeons + bosses to me so that I can work autnomously. My design philosophy is a bit more eclectic that the suggestions so far. For instance, if it were up to me, I'd nix the Forest Temple, Fire Temple, etc. cliches and go with more unusual levels. Just off the top of my head:

Marshmellow Factory - Use triggered combo animation to set up "bouncy" walls and barriers, use fire to melt some things, use combo animation for convayer belts on which marshmellows move around the plant. Probably a boss that you need to melt as the battle goes on.

Birdhouse Courthouse - Block puzzles representing the bird jurors in various rooms that need to be organized in the proper pattern, moving hookshot targets, some sort of overarching schtick involving finding which one is guilty of stealing birdseed or something equally innane. Boss perhaps a Judge or something.

Porcupine's Brain - Moving spikes, traps, triggered combo animation traps, timed screen warps on EVERY screen that move you between several daydreams (General layout remains the same, but subtle differences let you progress depending upon which daydream you're in) together with the actual biological appearance of the Brain. Boss some sort of giant tumor that changes form in each daydream.

Laboratory - Level involving changes in the four states of matter - solid being blocks, liquid being water, gas creating bubbles or something, plasma being explosive. Set it up so that some item or device activates state changes. As more water is created on each screen, water level rises through multiple levels. Boss some generic monster with four forms.

Venetian Ruins - Venetian-style architecture, level premised around translating alien symbols into the mathematical concepts they represent. Ridable gondolas running through canals throughout the ruins. As you uncover more of the ruins, it slowly becomes more and more repaired. (Done with strategically placed permanent triggers that move the character to another version of the dungeon). Boss perhaps some ancient monster that had destroyed the city in the first place.

Frozen Tsunami - Dungeons carved in a giant tsumani wave that was frozen by some old spell or something. Items and enemies frozen in blocks. A large oceanliner frozen into the Tsumani can be entered and activated, with moving parts.

Triforce Palace - A final level made out of a three-dimensional, four-placed triangle. Player can walk around each side of the outside of the triangle, and then can enter the inside. Inside, the triangle can be rotated in variety of ways that will shift the player around. Player needs to realize how the triangle works to get to the core, wherein lies Gannon or something.

-C

Dart Zaidyer
02-28-2006, 05:29 PM
Perhaps we really shouldn't use a tileset that's been done to death already. What we should probably do is build a new one from scratch, using themes from an existing Zelda game, much like the way Newfirst was done. That way, we'd be able to skirt around the inevitably tedious work involved with breaking it apart and rearranging it to suit the needs of the quest, especially if it's supposed to utilize all these complicated tricks.

*b*
02-28-2006, 05:41 PM
it seems the place I use to upload images and junk is down, so I really can't show a screenshot, but it isn't Hyrule Fantasy's tileset. that one is so complicated, I can hardly use it properly. no, this tileset is based directly off of the first Zelda's graphics, modified to fit the new style of mountains that are so common in the recent 2D games

using Pure or the Zero tilesets would be a mistake, to me. they don't utilize the full capabilities of what ZQuest can now do with graphics. plus, the previous demo quest had a unique tileset made simply for that game, which was also based off of Z1. then again, this might just be my ego talking

jman2050
02-28-2006, 07:30 PM
Actually, a tileset based off a Z1 ala Demo quest would be great.

Jigglysaint
02-28-2006, 07:37 PM
Wow, those are some great ideas C-dawg! On the other hand, those ideas are better off for your own kick-ass quest. The triforce one seems pretty neat in and of itself. Another good idea would be a dungeon that's totally submerged, where instead of controling water levels, you have to search oxygen bubbles so you don't drown. It could come with a timer on each screen, and running out would damage you or somthing.

Also, with creative use of misc items and trigger combos, you can create Oracle series Gasha seeds thanks to the events system.

I know one thing is for sure. All my ZC tricks have become totally obsolete.

Edit: A quest based on demo quest would be a pretty good idea. For one thing, emphasis isn't on the graphics, but on the tricks able to be done. You would only need simple graphics for some of the more interesting tricks. A more complicated tileset would mean more time is needed to get things to look right.

jman2050
02-28-2006, 07:40 PM
I have no idea how we can incorporate any of C's ideas into this quest, but I'm sure we can think of some way to use his skills.

WindStrike
02-28-2006, 08:35 PM
Well, that laboratory idea is pretty sweet. It'd be better to simplify it though. Maybe only 3 forms and have those forms be something like - past, present, future. So, it would be a time-traveling dungeon, where you can only get to certain areas in a certain time or something like that. Heck, I may just do that myself hehehe... Oh, and the boss with the multiple forms? Here's a simple idea for that:
Just put 3 boss rooms in a row, each one with a different environment (it might be pretty evil though if done correctly... (I don't mean like level 6 boss in Hidden Duality!)) It may need custom sprites though.

Sir_Johnamus
02-28-2006, 09:22 PM
Shadowblazer has my soul, so I can't stay away that long.

I can be a planner, or music provider/suggester.
We could also add some kind of a intro movie to a title screen. You wait a short time, and there is a movie that plays.
More of my 2 cents.

ShadowTiger
03-01-2006, 10:25 AM
You can do that, if you have the graphics for it. :p Ever played Teilyr's CoD demo, or my UCoL Demo? Each have a little movie that plays at the beginning. It's short, but oh-so-sweet. <3 *lol*


Okay, now here's the thing. (jman2050 is ... jman2050, and I'm ShadowTiger. And STFU if the name sounds familiar in a negative way. I use that nick everywhere.)

[09:02] <ShadowTiger> Okay, .. .. we definitely need to get a good tileset up for NeoFirst.
[09:03] <ShadowTiger> I'm waiting for Gashin to present a Screenshot of his set.
[09:03] <ShadowTiger> .. Now, ..
[09:03] <ShadowTiger> You had wanted to see another DemoQuest tileset, right?
[09:03] <ShadowTiger> Somethimg more towards Z1 than Z3?
[09:03] <ShadowTiger> Or TMC?
[09:05] <jman2050> I'm not sure
[09:05] <jman2050> I don't want the tileset to be too prioritized
[09:05] <jman2050> it needs to be elegent but simple
[09:05] <jman2050> leaning towards Z1 is better for that purpose
[09:05] <ShadowTiger> But still with a few layers?
[09:06] <ShadowTiger> I was planning something elaborate and beautiful for the sake of the three dungeons, but, ... ...
[09:06] <ShadowTiger> If it's not to be, ... ... =/
[09:06] <jman2050> hey, I'm not running the show here
[09:06] <jman2050> I'm just supervising
[09:06] <jman2050> :P
[09:07] <ShadowTiger> Oy. XD ... Well, ... ... you probably know best. I mean,
[09:07] <ShadowTiger> NeoFirst should accomplish a few goals.
[09:07] <ShadowTiger> I mean, .. look at it this way.
[09:07] <ShadowTiger> There are -VERY- few quests which allow the common person to look inside of it, AND be a complex quest,
[09:07] <ShadowTiger> AND Show how everything is done, AND be included in every release of ZC.
[09:08] <ShadowTiger> -I- learned how to use ZC by parasitising an unpassworded quest.
[09:08] <ShadowTiger> Since things were more or less set up already, I just modified what was there, and when I needed to know how to do something,
[09:08] <ShadowTiger> I just looked at a preset example.
[09:08] <ShadowTiger> Worked like a charm. > >.' I was questmaking in no time at all.
[09:08] <ShadowTiger> If there's a quest which does all of this and more, and is easily accessible to the masses, unpassworded, features everything and anything they should know,
[09:09] <ShadowTiger> and thensome, ... Possibly even explaining the situation beforehand via some sort of "Intro" to the quest,
[09:09] <ShadowTiger> .. there will be a lot more experienced newcomers entering the ZC Field,
[09:09] <ShadowTiger> should they play the quest if released with it.


Okay, now this is something we should be asking ShadowBlazer about. I personally think that there is enough here to warrant a Subforum for the creation of the quest. We'll be comparing a -LOT- of notes, and it's not something that we can do via PM, nor by placing poll upon poll upon poll upon poll upon poll and topic upon topic upon topic in the Beta Discussion forum. I -would- be willing to use my Hosted Quest Forum (http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showforum=65) at PureZC for it, but that's not fair to the members here who don't go to PureZC.

... Thoughts? I want to PM ShadowBlazer, Eckels, or War Lord, but I'm not sure when slash if they're ever on. (I hate disturbing Administrators.) ... ... Maybe DN. O.o' He's an Administrator, and directly involved with ZC in some little way here or there, (Kidding, lol.)

Thoughts?



Things I still need to do:
Update the list in the first post.
Get some Screenshots from Gashin/*b* as to the tileset.
Decide on a tileset, based on the above IRC conversation, as well as your input.
See whether or not C's ideas would be useful for the dungeons. I'll bet we could work one of them into the second of the three dungeons, as that's what it's pretty much reserved for. (It's the "Gimmick" Dungeon, with the first being the standard difficult keyquest/map/compass/find-the-special-item/boss key/triforce dungeon.)



EDIT: A Copy and Paste from the thread at Pure:

I'd rather wait untill I see the tileset before I do anything. I have a few questions once more. I should only do one dungeon, so that other members have an oppurtunity to help out as well (And because I'm fairly lazy, but that is beside the point here :P)

We really do have a helluva lot to do... We don't know what items to use (But I'm guessing if there are only three major dungeons, two major items per dungeon could work very well). We don't know where things will go etc. We don't know the size of the overworld... There are still questions of other things to include like secret item dungeons, a town, an underground cave sytem with different entrances and exits all over Hyrule?

I suggest gathing all of our ideas into one giant list, and seeing which of them are... needed... Perhaps a poll maybe necissary for some, or perhaps just a discussion would surfice...

I can't wait :)
I know, I can't wait either. :heh: We have so much to do, but so little idea of what we're GOING to do. That's why I've got this list up there in the first post.

We need a tileset first to see what we can do with it. Although we can always make new combos and tiles for it and such, it's important to remember what I said in my previous post with the IRC quote with jman. It's for everybody, not for the experienced ZC oldbies. (Or whoever has that level of skill with ZC/ZQuest.)

Once we have the tileset all figured out, we can build things around what we can feature using the tileset. When we know what we can do with it, we can start to plan the overworld.

When we're planning the overworld, a basic schematic of what we need to go where will be formed. Once we have that, we'll know what special items we'll need to get any by when.

Once we know which special items we'll be needing, we can place them within the dungeons. Now this is a slight note of conflict. Do we want to plan out the dungeons first so we're less restricted by having our dungeons depend on what we need for the overworld, or do we need to restrict our journeys through the overworld to the items we get in the dungeons? Very important to consider.

Obviously, before that happens, we'll also need a good dungeon plan for at least both initial dungeons. As I said before, the first one will be a very elaborate, lengthy, and well planned dungeon similar to PrinceMSC's dungeons in Revenge2, or like the Excavated Temple in Tei's CoD Demo. The second Dungeon will be something -very- elaborate and extremely creative. (See C-Dawg's ideas.)


We'll be making lots and lots of polls over the next few months for these, so we'll need space to set 'em up, of course. But that's for later.

Tom
03-01-2006, 02:20 PM
In my opinion I don't think it should be called neofirst if you are planning on changing all the dungeons and such. The neo bit is ok but I just think first might be a bit misleading because people might think its just a snazzy new look for the first quest. You don't have to take note of this its just my opinion.

ShadowTiger
03-01-2006, 04:26 PM
As far as I know, Tom, the NewFirst set is basically a "2.10 test quest" equivalent. It's both a tileset and a showoff of the new (AKA old.) engine's abilities. Newfirst had transparent layers, Cave 2 combos, slash, bushes, shallow water, the hammer, lens of truth, hookshot, etc. It was a showcase of its new features. I expect NeoQuest to be roughly the same thing. If the exhibition quest replaces another exhibition quest, it's still an exhibition quest.

Also, if you'll follow what I wrote in the previous post of mine, you'll see why we're designing this quest.

Sir_Johnamus
03-01-2006, 08:00 PM
http://images.cjb.net/b7cf7.bmp

Here's a little screen that I made for my quest. I made the sun and the palette.
How do you like it?

firefly
03-01-2006, 08:48 PM
OK, I made a screen, hope you like it (I didn't liked it):

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/800/zelda0048is.png (http://imageshack.us)
I changed it, it looks better but still I don't like it.

03-01-2006, 08:51 PM
Its good, but it would look better if you made it like foggy, or a bit lighter, with light rain. But it is still good.
What tileset did you use to make it?

firefly
03-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Its good, but it would look better if you made it like foggy, or a bit lighter, with light rain. But it is still good.
What tileset did you use to make it?

I used Dance of Rememberance tileset.
Thanks, I'll do that!

03-01-2006, 10:07 PM
OK, I made a screen, hope you like it (I didn't liked it):

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/800/zelda0048is.png (http://imageshack.us)
I changed it, it looks better but still I don't like it.

It looks much better. Good Job. :goofy:

ShadowTiger
03-02-2006, 12:43 AM
... ... What ... ... The ... ... Bloody ... ... ... ... ...

Why are you all ... ...

...

Okay, uh, ... you don't need to post screenshots. All we need now are planners and a working tileset once we find out what we're doing for the quest. It looks like the majority of people want it to be a New Quest entirely to exhibit the new features of 2.11's ZQuest/ZC. Thus, we'll need a relatively complex Tileset. DoR is nice, but it's not the be-all and end-all. (Kinda close though. ;-D *lol* )

So, like, ... ... help the cause, guys. Don't be critiquing your own screenshots here, even if you think it'll help the cause. Stick to the layout I listed in the first post here. Thanks though.

*b*
03-02-2006, 03:45 AM
borrowing some space on PureZC's SotW FTP, I uploaded a demo image of my tileset

http://sotw.purezc.com/Gashin/neofirst.jpg

I haven't worked on it much, but that'd be the general style

ShadowTiger
03-02-2006, 09:41 AM
You know, guys, ... we all need to like, ... chip in together (Yes, all of us.) For some generic upload space. This, for example. (http://www.fuitadnet.com/bronze_plan.php) It'd be hectic to manage the payments and all, but, eh. I'd be willing to pay for most of it, but that's not exactly "Ideal" if we're all going to be using it :p

Gashin, that screenshot is just about perfect. What are its palettes like? How compatible is it with other sets? Keep in mind that we can always "recolor" using Graphics Gale if need be, but that's tedious. :p

*b*
03-02-2006, 04:09 PM
Gashin, that screenshot is just about perfect. What are its palettes like? How compatible is it with other sets?
thank you, easy to edit, not at all. I'm designing this set to be completley original, while still keep it true to the original Zelda

ShadowTiger
03-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Got any Dungeon tiles yet? We may be going all out with it. ;)

koopa
03-02-2006, 04:22 PM
I'd be for it, it looks original, it's something new, yet still very zelda-like.

WindStrike
03-02-2006, 05:40 PM
My only complaint about your screenshot *b* is those cliffs. They look good, but it's more of the fact that they look more like walls in comparison to higher ground. Otherwise, good enough. Are the dungeon tiles kinda similar to that? I mean, all I've seen so far out of almost all dungeon sets are variations of the original tileset's walls. So I'm kinda hoping that maybe it could be a little more different but still keeping a dungeon feel and it being good. (Maybe making more use of the improved color thing that was added?) Anyways, although doubtful, I might redo the typical zelda overworld theme. I would like a little more elaboration on what the midi might/should sound like before I start (assuming I start...).

*b*
03-02-2006, 09:23 PM
actually, all the tiles you see in that screenshot, minus the rocks, stairs, ladders, items, and flowers, are all I have done. if it is decided that this tileset will be used, I'll make the rest of the tiles. other than that, though...

Sir_Johnamus
03-02-2006, 10:39 PM
The blurred gif image gives it a great soft effect. I think that this would be a great choice!

Dart Zaidyer
03-03-2006, 11:19 AM
That's just to keep people from ripping anything.

I think it's a great idea for a tileset, though. Simple, effective, and it resembles LoZ quite nicely without turning into some other style.

Tom
03-03-2006, 04:36 PM
Ummm Britannianhero4 I think you completely misunderstood what I said. What I mean is that the name Neofirst will make people think its a remake of the original zelda quest. But if you are doing a 3 dungeon quest thing you shouldn't really call it neofirst unless you are planning on making a second or are planning on changing the graphical style of the original. At no point did I even mention newfirst so that reply really confuses me. Also I don't think newfirst had slash, correct me if I'm wrong.

ShadowTiger
03-03-2006, 05:43 PM
Ummm Britannianhero4BH4.

I think you completely misunderstood what I said. Great. Thanks.

What I mean is that the name Neofirst will make people think its a remake of the original zelda quest.Not like NewFirst does?

But if you are doing a 3 dungeon quest thing you shouldn't really call it neofirst unless you are planning on making a secondA second Newfirst?

or are planning on changing the graphical style of the original.Which we are.

At no point did I even mention newfirstIt was the implication, as well as what you just said.

so that reply really confuses me.Well I'm sorry to hear.

Also I don't think newfirst had slash, correct me if I'm wrong.182 had Slash, Bushes, Flowers, Tall Grass, and Shallow Water, among other things. It was their first exhibition.

Check the "NeoFirst's Goals" thread if you're still confused. Remember, Tom, a name is only a name. If people play NeoFirst with the impression that it's a new NewFirst or a new demo quest or a 4th.qst ... then they see what it's composed of, ... ... who cares what they think? It is what it is, and what it will be based on the poll over there. What's there is there. Why is it a big deal?

firefly
03-03-2006, 06:38 PM
If you think you're hot stuff, please consider applying. ;-D A visual record of your work is also greatly appreciated. Then why?

Okay, uh, ... you don't need to post screenshots.
Whoops...

All we need now are planners and a working tileset once we find out what we're doing for the quest. It looks like the majority of people want it to be a New Quest entirely to exhibit the new features of 2.11's ZQuest/ZC.
Yea, that's true
Thus, we'll need a relatively complex Tileset. DoR is nice, but it's not the be-all and end-all. (Kinda close though. ;-D *lol* ) I'm not suggesting that tileset. :)

So, like, ... ... help the cause, guys. Don't be critiquing your own screenshots here, even if you think it'll help the cause. Stick to the layout I listed in the first post here. Thanks though.
... :confuse2:

ShadowTiger
03-04-2006, 08:39 AM
Firefly, I'm trying to see who would be best for the project. The screenshots provided were nice, but it appeared as if you were just critiquing each others' shots, rather than suggest areas you could help with. We need planners more than anything, really.

Sorry if I sounded harsh. :p

Dlbrooks33
03-04-2006, 06:32 PM
okay, i got it, you can get my edited zero tileset here. If there is anything or anyone i need to add or edit, let me know, and i'll see what i can do...

http://rapidshare.de/files/14690834/zero-2.5.zgp.html

Tom
03-07-2006, 06:34 PM
I believe newfirst is called newfirst because it is a remake of the 1st quest. And I meant a second neofirst but it would be called neosecond. Although I think that idea sucks which was the reason I was being sarcastic.

And yet again, newfirst did not have slash. Yes I know 182 had slash, just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't know anything about zelda classic. I was around before layers were even invented.

It wasn't a big deal at first hence the reason I said in my first post "You don't have to take note of this its just my opinion." But I would rather you ignored me rather than send back posts implying I'm retarded. That's what has made it a big deal.

Zelda Master
03-07-2006, 07:23 PM
You know, guys, ... we all need to like, ... chip in together (Yes, all of us.) For some generic upload space. This, for example. (http://www.fuitadnet.com/bronze_plan.php) It'd be hectic to manage the payments and all, but, eh. I'd be willing to pay for most of it, but that's not exactly "Ideal" if we're all going to be using it :p

Gashin, that screenshot is just about perfect. What are its palettes like? How compatible is it with other sets? Keep in mind that we can always "recolor" using Graphics Gale if need be, but that's tedious. :p

Yea, instead of paid hosting, you can use :www.byethost.com for free. :)

I think all those pictures are nice, not that i suck or anything.:p

Nicholas Steel
03-07-2006, 10:31 PM
i'd be happy to host it all for you... including pictures etc. so long as its less then 10mb in total size.

Sephiroth
03-19-2006, 12:57 AM
Well, I can't say I can't do much, but I would just like to be able to test for bugs.. If you ask other people that I have tested for, they know I have a good eye for graphical bugs and spelling/grammatical errors.

*b*
03-19-2006, 05:22 AM
oh, and, whenever you guys figure out what type of quest this is going to be, I'll start work on the tileset again. I just don't want to make a ton of useless tiles, you know

ShadowTiger
03-19-2006, 09:42 AM
oh, and, whenever you guys figure out what type of quest this is going to be, I'll start work on the tileset again. I just don't want to make a ton of useless tiles, you know

... http://www.purezc.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/icon_odd.gif ...

Well now, that just changes everything, now doesn't it. http://www.purezc.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/icon_heh.gif On to the planning phase!

Rakki
03-19-2006, 04:23 PM
So BH4, how many people are going to work on each dungeon? Is Shoelace the only confirmed dungeon maker so far? If so, is he making an entire dungeon, or is that yet to be determined?

ShadowTiger
03-20-2006, 10:04 AM
Many things have yet to be determined, really. We need a solid plan on anything we're going to be working on before we know who's going to be doing what. We need to be coordinating down to nearly the precise location of every combo here. I can foresee us planning each and every screen. If this is going to resemble a group quest, (And intentions or not, it probably will.) it'll have to be coordinated down to the very bare bones.

ZTC
03-21-2006, 02:02 PM
Here's a few things to think on...

Dungeon Idea: why not use a full elemental-type for one of the levels?

Level/Overworld Design: I could possibly help out with this

Tileset(s): I partially converted Orion's ALttP tileset to conform to one of my 2.10 quests; I could possibly rework it to conform to the latest beta. I'll prolly be going into some of my games tonight to start some tile ripping...

Music: I'd like to think that I'm pretty good with choosing music (but what I think and the facts can be different :shrug: ). I'm also somewhat decent with midi editing (reinstrumentation, slight remixes, ect). I can also encode just about anything to MP3 if needed, and I have hundreds of SPCs to work with...

Hosting: I can be a mirror from my Savefile account and also host any external music

Testing: Whenever it gets to this point, I'd be more than happy to help out with the testing

rocksfan13
03-21-2006, 02:07 PM
I would gratefully offer my services to the help of the dungeon and overworld design and specifics. I've been dying to use some of my new stuff in the new version.

ShadowTiger
03-21-2006, 06:42 PM
Dungeon Idea: why not use a full elemental-type for one of the levels?There's already a thread made for planning out dungeon one. If Dungeon 1 isn't a themed level, (Elemental, I guess.) then Dungeon 2 can still possibly be themed. ... .. fasjdfsd Actually, you know what, ... we should probably work out what we're going to do with all three levels at once. For example, suppose we wanted to make the final Dungeon (Third dungeon.) a composite of all four elements, OR a composite of either dungeon which came before it. If we decided to do either of those, we'd also have to know what we wanted to do with both dungeons BEFORE we do them, if we want to make L3 the most pronounced and "epic." However, our L1 --> L2 --> L3 method also works, because we can STILL combine them into L3 if necessary. ... Again, if necessary. ;)


Level/Overworld Design: I could possibly help out with thisPost examples? :p


Tileset(s): I partially converted Orion's ALttP tileset to conform to one of my 2.10 quests; I could possibly rework it to conform to the latest beta. I'll prolly be going into some of my games tonight to start some tile ripping...Nope. Sorry, but I don't really think Orion's Palettes are all that compatible with what we might be working with. We'll need as much available as possible, and right now, I DEFINITELY (Read: Without a doubt.) have my eyes on Radien's DoR tileset, or Mr. Z's PTUX Set. Radien's set will more than likely win out, since he put SO Much detail into it. Remember, this set is going WIDESCALE upon its release. EVERYONE will have it, and you'll be seeing it a LOT More. We also have to be able to do everything we can do with it using that tileset. Can Orion's set do everything we need? Who knows. Can Radien's? Probably. :p


Music: I'd like to think that I'm pretty good with choosing music (but what I think and the facts can be different :shrug: ). I'm also somewhat decent with midi editing (reinstrumentation, slight remixes, ect). I can also encode just about anything to MP3 if needed, and I have hundreds of SPCs to work with...Great. If we need anything, (And we will. ;) Probably entirely unique.) we have another artist. :)


Hosting: I can be a mirror from my Savefile account and also host any external music

Testing: Whenever it gets to this point, I'd be more than happy to help out with the testingThanks and thanks. ^-^


I would gratefully offer my services to the help of the dungeon and overworld design and specifics. I've been dying to use some of my new stuff in the new version.Ooh, new stuff? :) Do tell? ^.^

rocksfan13
03-22-2006, 10:08 AM
In my last quest (Which has yet to be released) I had a game room for certain items. Now, I set it up as a timed warp game but I wanted to have it a different way.

I would like to see a type of game that acts like a slot machine, but not in that exact way. You would start the combos rolling by a warp. Now the combos will change at a designer selected rate but the player would be able to stop on the correct combo. If the player hits a combo without the flag it doesn't work. Without flag cycling I couldn't do this.

The other would definately be custom bosses. Which I'm sure everyone else is thinking as well. Having flag cycling(especially on layers) will create a lot better custom bosses.

But, other than that, I've been waiting to be able to use a cycling flag for use in dungeons as well as the overworld, where you would need to hit something at a specific moment.

ZTC
03-22-2006, 02:35 PM
Ok, with screenshots pertaining to my design, if I got some time, I'll have a few screens up tommrow. I'll try to go over Raiden's and Mr. Z's tilesets to see if there's anything I can port over from the ALttP set. As for music-related stuff, I'm going to be posting a thread about it in a few.... And as for the dungeons, it prolly would be a good idea to plan the ideas out for all three if there's going to be some kind of running theme.