ZC licensing

[Phantom Menace]

Hey guys,

How's it going? Time for me to randomly drop by and ask questions... :rolleyes:

Someone wrote me wanting to create a for-profit game (basically a quest file) that uses the ZC engine but without any references to Zelda. First of all, is it even possible at this point to remove the ZC title, etc. (yeah, I haven't been keeping up on ZC). Second, do we (i.e. you developers/ZC custodians) have any licensing info or restrictions on ZC and quest files. Could someone sell a quest, Zelda-based or otherwise? I'm guessing no on the Zelda ones, or anything based on copyrighted work. What about a completely original quest?

Here are his questions:


Does Armageddon Games have any problem with completely original non-Zelda games being created for Zelda Classic?
Does Armageddon Games have any problem with developers using Zelda Classic only as a video game engine for original games and stripping out all of the references to The Legend of Zelda?
Does Armageddon Games have any problem with developers selling their own custom created quests packaged with ZeldaClassic (as a game engine only, as decribed above) if the custom quests contain completely original game sprites, tiles, music, etc, and all references to The Legend of Zelda are removed? As I mentioned above, I would like to sell a video game and comic book bundle for A Full Moon Rising, and would need to be able to have a custom installer program install the Zelda Classic engine with the game so that people can play it "right out of the box."
Is there an official license agreement for Zelda Classic that specifies all of this legal details of the software that I can keep on file for reference?


This is from Daniel Keller, Project Destiny Studios, www.projectdestinystudios.com

Let me know what I should tell him, or if you want me to forward the email to one of you guys.

Thanks.

Jer

[jman2050]

Or we could just give you the current ZC and ZQ source code and call it a day? Of course, it probably isn't that simple, and it isn't completely my call anyway. I'm sure neither DN nor Jarrod (War Lord, the administrator of AGN and owner of ZC) would have a problem with it, though I can't speak for them.

Nevertheless, I can help out with the questions to Daniel.


Does Armageddon Games have any problem with completely original non-Zelda games being created for Zelda Classic?

User-submitted quests using original non-Zelda elements have been released before, in high quantities. Since we're only responsible for creating the engine itself, what people do with it is their responsibility.


Does Armageddon Games have any problem with developers using Zelda Classic only as a video game engine for original games and stripping out all of the references to The Legend of Zelda?

I'd wait for an official word from the AGN higher-ups, but from my view as a developer the engine, though originally created to emulate Zelda 1, is much broader in scope. Striiping out the Zelda references wouldn't change the engine.


Does Armageddon Games have any problem with developers selling their own custom created quests packaged with ZeldaClassic (as a game engine only, as decribed above) if the custom quests contain completely original game sprites, tiles, music, etc, and all references to The Legend of Zelda are removed? As I mentioned above, I would like to sell a video game and comic book bundle for A Full Moon Rising, and would need to be able to have a custom installer program install the Zelda Classic engine with the game so that people can play it "right out of the box."

I don't have a problem with it (assuming the engine removes all IP material as stated above), though I WILL state as a caveat that Zelda Classic has from its conception been a free publicly distributed program. Licensing the engine for commercial use will not change the distribution availability of Zelda Classic in its current form, so if this happens you should be well aware that whatever you create to sell has a strong possibility of directly competing with Zelda Classic itself. Not sure it if would be a problem in the long run, but I want to be sure you're aware of that. Again, I'd wait for a response by Jarrod before taking my word as law.


Is there an official license agreement for Zelda Classic that specifies all of this legal details of the software that I can keep on file for reference?

I can't answer this one. Even though I well know I should be able to >_>

Also, I found this (http://www.armageddongames.net/showthread.php?t=86247) thread when searching around a bit. No official words from what I can see, but it gives a few insights from different members about the possibility of licensing. Also note that the above is mainly directed towards Daniel, as I'm quite sure you PM know all of this already ;)

[Dart Zaidyer]

People who think they can sell quests crack me up. After all, ZC would still be available for free... What would I get out of these guys' quests that I don't get elsewhere? Right, yeah, it's their "official" game, but in order to be worth the money it would have to be ten times better than Sabotage Dragoon, which is already ten times better than the best of the best of the best quests ever created. Even after that, it still comes down to the fact that ZC doesn't lend itself to unique, hard-to-duplicate experiences; it's incredibly easy to spot. The quest would fall flat as soon as customers realize they can do better if they wanted to.

You should probably explain that to your "licensee" before sinking the effort into such a lofty notion.

[jman2050]

Depends on whether he wants the engine or the source code. With just the binaries, I tend to agree. But hey, if he wants it and thinks that it'll sell despite the fact that he'd be competing with a free program, that's his prerogative. If he wants the source code however, that's a different story. And I suspect that's what he wants anyway. After all, when people licensed Quake they didn't just take the compiled engine, did they? :P

[Phantom Menace]

I guess I should have posted his whole email. What he wants to do is sell comic books, and make a game to go along with them. But I agree that the game would still feel like ZC if it ran on the engine.


I originally came up with this idea a few months ago after I purchased a special one-shot comic book called "Ninja High School: Timeblast" that had a video game with the same name included with it. The comic book laid down the backstory for the video game, and the video game took over right where the comic book left off. Being a long time fan of the Ninja High School comic book series, I thought that it was the absolute coolest to be able to play a video game based on Ninja High School and its characters. Now that I am trying to create comic books for myself, I would like to create my own similar video game and comic book combination for a story that I am working on. As a result, the video game would use all of my own original characters, tile and sprite artwork, and storyline, and not be connected to The Legend of Zelda other than the fact that it would be the same kind of genre of game.

I'm not asking for the code, unless that's your answer to Daniel's questions. And I'm also not asking you to go out of your way here to help him out. Just asking if there's a way for him to do what he wants to do within the implied licensing of ZC.

[Dark Nation]

As far as I know, there is no real license for ZC; a game creator can do whatever he or she wishes to do with it. Although selling such a game may be frowned upon by some (since ZC has always been, and should always be in the future, free), there is no rule against that, either (to my knowledge). As for removing all references of Zelda from the engine, there have been discussions about that in the past (should the need arise to ward off pressure from Nintendo), but not much work has been done. Though some of the changes discussed were aimed at ZQuest (such as enemy, item, and weapon names), the main area he would be concerned with would be the game engine, specifically the title screen, the story screen, and the "ALL OF TREASURES" screen, since they all make direct reference to Zelda or to a Zelda-based concept (such as the Triforce).

[KingArthur]

PM, i dont think anything has really changed in the liscencing of ZC, so i think you'd know just as much as anyone at this point. It sounds to me like you need to get together with the current developers and warlord, becuase i actually think creating a commercially liscenceable version of the ZC engine would be pretty nifty. Add the ability to create custom titlescreens and sound datafiles, make it read just the qst file its packaged with and forbid any zelda stuff. I think it would work quite nicely. Oh yes, and not allowing the quest editor to be distributed with the greated game, to keep it from competing.

Basically keep the normal ZC software as it is now, and charge a small fee for the "commercial" version with the previously mentioned changes, i cant imagine any real objection to that to be honest

*edit* oh, and lol at jman telling PM who warlord is :P

[jman2050]

I know PM knows. I wasn't sure if this guy Daniel did >_>

[Phantom Menace]

Sure, jman... ;)

Thanks for the info. I can see the desire to try to make the engine as generic as possible, though it would still feel like LoZ, and there's a limit to how much can be customized. At some point people would be better off finding a different engine on which to base their game (or writing one from scratch).

As far as commercial use of ZC, I agree with DN on ZC being free. I've always figured one of the things we have going for us from a legal standpoint is that we aren't making money off of it. (The others are that it was written from scratch and that we are helping Nintendo keep its fan base. Not necessarily solid legal standing, but there's no point in Nintendo taking action--we aren't pirates, we're fans.) So my preference would be to allow distribution of the engine with the sale of some product, but the engine itself would be considered to be included for "free" in the sale, and could be downloaded for free without the purchase. (Kind of like those no-purchase-necessary sweepstakes.)

*edit* Oh, I forgot to check out that post you found, jman, (I did try searching before I posted, but I only searched the ZC forums)... Turns out that was the same request from the same guy--Hoagiebot is Daniel. Guess this issue has been beat to death then. I agree with Zelda Warrior's assessment:



1. E-mail Craner, Eckels, Warlock, and DN. Also make sure there are no legal holes and get permission if needed.
2. Edit the ZC program to stop showing the Zelda title screen.
3. Make the quest. (Make it completly different)
4. Make sure the website is ready.
5. Make an installer (I don't see any way to avoid all the legal holes unless you do what Foxx said.)
6. Get the comic ready.
7. Make the bundle.
8. Sell it.

My vote is it's OK as long as the engine is free of charge, and you developers are willing to make the mods to the engine (maybe even leave the Zelda-specific stuff in the engine and just provide a switch to turn it off, but leave the AG screen of course).

[jman2050]

Of course, if Daniel waits for a bit, he can be given a far better engine than what's currently available...

...that is, if we stop being so darn lazy about it *stares at code* I wish this could fix itself ;_;

[C-Dawg]

As I've said before, I think selling ZQ is a bad idea. No one who would distribute ZQ or any non-zelda clone thereof can afford to stand up to the sort of money that Nintendo and it's ilk could throw behind some attorneys. So it doesn't matter whether ZQ is infringing or not, because if Nintendo comes after you, the PR is your only hope.

That said, if Nintendo DOES sue AGN, and there's a way to remove to Colorado, let me know. Maybe the firm will discuss taking the case on pro bono. ;)

-C