Apology Follows Christian-Themed Assembly

[Monica]

NEWARK, Del. - The principal of a public high school apologized to parents for allowing a Christian-themed assembly that featured two pro football players, saying he was misled about what the presentation would cover.

Newark High School Principal Emmanuel Caulk wrote in a letter that he expected the talk by Philadelphia Eagles players Tra Thomas and Thomas Tapeh to focus on "values, choices and challenges that adolescents face in today's society."

He said promotional material used the name "Tra Thomas Promotional Tour," and that he did not know Thomas was founder and spokesman for Athletes United for Christ.

A projection of that organization's logo was shown throughout Tuesday's assembly, and the athletes urged students to attend an upcoming rally and concert at a Philadelphia-area Christian center.

Some students and parents complained.

"As a parent of a child in a public school, I am uncomfortable with the fact that an evangelical organization can come into a public assembly that is a promotional event for an evangelical Christian concert," Becky Ashley told The (Wilmington) News Journal.

Thomas said he assumed everyone knew his promotional tour was connected to his organization but that he has heard similar complaints after speaking at other public schools.

"What we're trying to do is to help the kids make better decisions in life. I guess I understand," why some people objected, he said, "because you have other religions there. But we're not preaching to the kids."

Promoter Angela Brown said she had made it clear what Thomas would be talking about and the organization with which he was affiliated.

Caulk disputed that.

Drewry Fennell, executive director of the Delaware chapter of the
American Civil Liberties Union, said such miscommunications reflects a nationwide trend.

"Organizations like this one across the country are gaining access to schools through the famous people and entertainment value and then using those opportunities to proselytize," she said. "These organizations sometimes take advantage of the schools' desire to provide compelling experiences for their students."

Thomas said he's just trying to help.

"I'm just trying to get them to identify with me, the person, rather than just Tra Thomas, the football player, so we can relate to each other better," he said. "And my Christianity is a big part of what I am."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051027/ap_on_re_us/religious_assembly;_ylt=AkMnrv75TH.M_Rw8VFW_cDVvzw cF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--


Ohhh, come on! An apology wasn't nesscessary....:rollseyes: Some people have to remember that a lot of people in this country are Christian and there's always a chance they'll see one. They can't expect an apology every time, no matter where they are, and they can't ban every Christian from doing a school program, that's discrimination. Those were just sissy parents. Thoughts?

[Glitch]

Seperation of church and state. Simple as that.

[Gerudo]

if a large part of the country is christian, then why would people complain in the first place? in my opinion, religion has no business in public schools, unless students organize it... even then, it shouldnt be a school sponsored activity. (read: public, not private schools).

[slothman]

It sounded like the admins didn't know it would be a Christian topic. It seems as though just the students were involved.
As long as people were allowed to leave and/or other religions got a chance to talk I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Saffith]

I don't know. Wouldn't you be sort of annoyed if you brought your children to hear people tell them how they should live their lives based on a religion you disagreed with, without even being fully informed in advance?

[Monica]

No, I would just take them and leave the show, then explain why we left, not have a hissy-fit. And the Principal should have done more research before inviting him. The promoter said she made it clear, and maybe the principal wasn't paying attention.

What if the same was said about that D.A.R.E. thing we always did in school? Drug dealers send their kids to public school too, so would it be ok for them to want an apology? No, because it's a stupid thing to do. Or what about the snake handler we saw one year? Oh no! Some kids parents are animal rights people! Oooops sorry for inviting him... Get my point? Hissyfits are stupid and it's just one little itty bitty show.

You can't not have school shows just because some people might not like them.

[Starkist]

Ward Churchill, the hatemonger from Colorado, was invited to speak at a community college here in Seattle. Do ya think the staff will be handing out apologies for that?

It's just a double standard.

[Saffith]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3791/repressed25cg.jpg

[firebug]

You make me laugh, Monica. I'm sorry your parents have you so blindly brainwashed that you think everyone else thinks like them. The truth is, you people are the minority, and the rest of us think logically. Your comparisons are horrible. drug-dealers and snake-handlers have NOTHING to do with forcing your religion on other people. I'm positive your response would be completely different if the football players happened to be muslim.

[phattonez]

This is what should have happened: it should have been an optional assembly. These are high school people, they can make their own decisions on the topic and could have done something about it if they wanted to. Besides, those presentations are a waste of time and everyone falls asleep during them anyway.

[Beldaran]

The Left: The Party of Tolerance... unless you are christian, republican, white, wealthy, or we disagree with you on anything. We don't tolerate that. You must be removed.

[Monica]

The Left: The Party of Tolerance... unless you are christian, republican, white, wealthy, or we disagree with you on anything. We don't tolerate that. You must be removed.

Thank you Beldaran. firebug is a prime example. :)

[Cloral]

Yes it would be nice if the students could decide to leave if they disagreed with the assembly's content. Unfortunately, high school assemblies tend to be mandatory. And you have yet to demonstrate how this is not a violation of church and state. So until that time comes, yes, the principal owed the studants an apology. Though it sounds like the bigger apology is due from the organizers of the event for misleading the school.

[Saffith]

So, now we've gone from questioning the handling of a minor incident to bashing a fairly broad range of political beliefs based on a couple of people presumed to fall into that range. That's great.

[Samson007]

Another case of the minority group bitching until they get their way.

This is a Christian country, and yet somehow the Athiests and such are the ones changing our rules. Them pushing their Athiesm on us is no different from us using the word "God" in our pledge. Im so sick of a few people bitching and screwing things up just because they have nothing better to do. Maybe if they found Jesus like the rest of us they wouldnt be so bitter all the fucking time.

[slothman]

It doesn't matter if it "is" a Christian country. The various Middle East countries, except Israel of course, are Muslim. Let's create assembeies with women who are forced to wear hoods. As long as it is optional or all creeds are able to do it I don't have a problem.

[Rainman]

I don't mind the assembly going on, but the athlete should have made sure that the school knew what the content was. Obviously the principal was surprised by the content. Of course conversely, the principal shouldn't have been an idiot.

[AlexMax]

Ward Churchill, the hatemonger from Colorado, was invited to speak at a community college here in Seattle. Do ya think the staff will be handing out apologies for that?

Were the students fully informed about who Ward Churchill guy was? The football players shouldn't be apologizing for his beleifs, he should apologizing for being misleading and curiously leaving out the 'christian' slant in his promotional materials.

[Cloral]

Another case of the minority group bitching until they get their way.

This is a Christian country, and yet somehow the Athiests and such are the ones changing our rules. Them pushing their Athiesm on us is no different from us using the word "God" in our pledge. Im so sick of a few people bitching and screwing things up just because they have nothing better to do. Maybe if they found Jesus like the rest of us they wouldnt be so bitter all the fucking time.
Yeah, the Constitution is so bitchy. :rolleyes:
And I'll bet the people who complained weren't Atheists. They were probably Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc. The point is there are many many religions, all of which are represented in this country. To assume that your religion should rank above them is just plain arrogant.
There is nothing wrong with practicing your religion. In fact I would encourage it. God knows there are a lot of people today who have no sense of morality. But having a required event at a public school peddling your religion violates their rights to practice their religions. But of course you decided that their religions are not important, so why should we consider them?

[phattonez]

This debate reminds me of some class that was being pushed for in public schools for Texas. It would teach about Christ to those who wanted to take the class. Of course there were people against, but the only arguments they had were that the citations were bad in the text and there were very minor errors. What is the relationship to this topic? Lighten up everyone. There are good things in Christianity for everyone, look for it and you will stop shunning it.

[Lilith]

There should have been an apology because it totally wasn't nessescary. You probably wouldn't have the same thing happening at a secular school with someone evangelizing Hinduism or Islam. Just try to imagine that and realize how weird it would seem and how offended parents would be. Basically you can't, so it's pretty unfair.

If it's religious toned and outside of a theology course, then it's pretty dumb. Hell, even open a Christian studies class at school if people really want to get into it...but subjecting kids to it without their choice isn't a good idea.

Religion is obviously a touchy subject that everyone is going to have strong personal opinions on. It's an unspoken cultural code that you just don't bring it up randomly in public because of the strong response from both ends...especially if you only represent one.

[firebug]

I tend to lean more to the right ;) I just think you have no idea of what you're talking about and your arguments make no sense. *shrug*

[AlexMax]

Another case of the minority group bitching until they get their way.

This is a Christian country, and yet somehow the Athiests and such are the ones changing our rules. Them pushing their Athiesm on us is no different from us using the word "God" in our pledge. Im so sick of a few people bitching and screwing things up just because they have nothing better to do. Maybe if they found Jesus like the rest of us they wouldnt be so bitter all the fucking time.

Hear that? That's the sound of your religion being obsoleted. Have a nice day. :)

[goKi]

Ohhh, come on! An apology wasn't nesscessary....:rollseyes: Some people have to remember that a lot of people in this country are Christian and there's always a chance they'll see one. They can't expect an apology every time, no matter where they are, and they can't ban every Christian from doing a school program, that's discrimination. Those were just sissy parents. Thoughts?


What if there was a muslim themed assembly, would christians have the right to complain? I think a great deal of christian churches have a disgusting approach to what i shall refer to as 'recruitment'.

[koopa]

I'm a christian. But that doesn't mean I support such "recruiting". The apology I think was entirely justified but I wouldn't mind Tra Thomas apologizing for misleading the school.

If you don't believe in christianity then you have a right to be left alone. Same for Islam, Buddhism, and all other religions. For me belief comes from the individual himself and not from being told to believe in something. By all means tell people about it if they want to hear, otherwise don't. I don't consider it my task in life to go around "converting infidels to the true cause" or something like that.

Christian assemblies should be allowed but not mandatory, and clearly advertised as such. I have absolutely no problem with someone not wanting to go to one or complaining about being forced to. It should be possible for christians and non-christians to coexist and that involves both sides recognising that it's not their job to constantly annoy the other.

Finally, there is not one christianity but many independent churches sharing perhaps a common basis (belief in Christ) but not much more. I don't think christianity is being obliterated but there is a shift to the believer focusing on his own personal relationship with God and that means the churches are no longer absolute authorities. The time when the Pope could tell all what to believe is long gone and I find that good. Churches might want to focus more on helping the individual to God and not standing between them.

[Lilith]

That's what I'm saying, goKi. I could see a Muslim assembly taking place, even in an area of the US where a neighborhood may be primarily Muslim, and Christian parents still complaining and being taken more seriously than those who complain against Christians, even if the majority of the students attending the school were of a different faith.

Even if we operate on a full "majority" in the country, things are much more clustered than evened out. When I was very young I was schooled in a neighborhood primarily Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu. Something like this happening, or even hearing about this would sound totally alien in that kind of enivironment. It's obvious you can't please everyone, but to rule and school in a country with such large, vocal minority portions, it's wise to keep situations like that more neutral.

Again, I've always been taught that asserting religious and political opinions in a large/mixed environment was very impolite.

[Monica]

Was that a direct Christian assembly or did he just mention it during it? I always wondered why they couldn't just allow all known religions to be expressed in school, excluding comments talking about hurting a fellow student .

[Lutraphobiac]

...Long Post...
So you are going to let Atheists like me burn forever in the eternal lake of fire (or whatever you are call it these days). You seem to be avoiding the deep rooted themes of christianity of "Spreading the Word". Your Savior died a horrible death so people like me would not die and go to hell. You should try to save my soul.

Christians also seem to be suffering from the "false consensus report". They assume there is more of them than there really is. This may be a matter of opinion but it seems that most people of the country are either atheist or people who don't care about religion. The second group is the one I find odd. They don't do any Christian things but will then mention God when they are questioned about mysteries of the universe or other things. I guess mentioning God is easier than throwing out the actual scientific reasoning behind a subject.

There also seems to be two attitudes coming from the Christians in this thread. One is the "I am being repressed" attitude that Saffith beautifully illustrated. The other it the attitude of "We are powerful so don't try to mess with us". These are obviously contradicting each other so it is pretty hilarious to see these attitudes coming from the same person.

This is where I probably go to an unexpected path of reasoning. I agree that people freak out way to much over people doing Christian things like praying in schools or putting together an assembly. I see myself as a person of science, and that means I should never get offended by an idea. I don't care if you stand outside yelling that my soul is going to hell. I will think that hypothesis over in my head and realize that A) it is not based on an observation and B) it is not testable.

As to the actual topic of the thread, there seems to be a little to much trickery at hand. He should not apoligize for being who he is, but people should be fully aware of what kind of assembly they are going to.

[koopa]

I would not want anyone to burn in an eternal lake of fire. And if anyone can "save your soul" it's you. My belief is something I see more on a personal level between me and God. I call myself a christian but I don't think every sentence in the Bible is to be taken at face value. Some might call me a heretic or not really a christian but I don't care. I take a quite liberal stance on many things and would personally not care about gays or women as bishops. And half the thou-shalt-go-to-hell stuff is a mediaeval invention of the church anyway.

I think there are two levels to religion. The lower is about how you behave in life and your values. About moral etc. The upper is about your personal relationship with God. And at no point will I exclude or hate anybody just because he does not have the same beliefs as me. I do agree to the principle that after this life you may be judged on how you lived. But I don't believe all the rubbish that calls itself "christian".

I do not think that you belong in hell or anything of the sort. That's another misconception that it's mainly about "follow us or you are eternally damned".

P.S. I am studying mathematics and would also see myself as a "person of science". The Bible doesn't tell you about Algebra and the textbooks don't tell you what values you should have in life. Christianity and Science do not principally exclude each other.

PPS. sorry if I went quite a bit off topic.

PPPS. see this thread (http://www.armageddongames.net/showthread.php?t=88642) for an example of what I call "rubbish".

[Cloral]

P.S. I am studying mathematics and would also see myself as a "person of science". The Bible doesn't tell you about Algebra and the textbooks don't tell you what values you should have in life. Christianity and Science do not principally exclude each other.
It is a bit off-topic, but it is very good to hear that. Science explains the 'how' and religion explains the 'why', though people frequently forget that.
And I want to apologize if I sounded anti-religious back there. The reason I responded the way I did was I saw several people make points about why they thought the principal should've apologized, which was responded to by several people calling them atheist and intolerant. I've seen this several times before, and it annoys me because it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion when people respond like that.

[jman2050]

An apology was neccesary because the students apparantly weren't properly informed of what was going on. Moreso if they didn't have a choice in the matter. I'm not sure if this Thomas character intentionally misled the school about the point of the assembly, nor will I implicate him in anything, but forcing others to listen to what you have to say or coercing them to do so, regardless of their wishes, is contrary to the faith such people claim to represent.

[mikeron]

I think we can't allow the wearing of turbans and yarmulkas at assemblies now.