are videogames art?

[Lilith]

This is inspired from a conversation I had last night with someone.

opinion:
I don't think videogames can be seen as worthwhile as literature, art, music, or movies because of their interactive quality diminishing most of the "meaningful" qualities you see in forms of art. They are also, unlike the forms I mentioned before, made purely for the purpose of escapism. Obviously, you can use the forms I mentioned that way, but the end product, if it is "good" is to develop you and make you think, applying what you learned outside the original medium.

It's hard for me to say what art is, not I usually can point out what I think it isn't.

So...do you consider videogames to cross over into "art"? Why? Do you think videogames can cross over from escapism and make a "real" influence in someone's life that isn't based off the original escapism? (aka, no fanfiction, no cosplay, etc...)

Also...if any videogames are that meaningful, which ones? ;o

[ShadowTiger]

What an excellent idea for a discussion. Thank you Lilith. :)


Before we even start, we would have to give out personal definitions of "Art." Video games can be entertaining on one level, but on the side of the developers, they can have pulled out all the stops and innovations to create something totally unique and beautiful, yet interactive and entertaining at the same time.

In the artistic sense, let's take a look at The Wind Waker. Cel Shading looks damn good, if you ask me. The frames of animation were ... just ... ... beautiful. So many of them. So pleasant to look at. It didn't look REAL, but it looked beautiful nevertheless. That's all you can really ask for in the graphics department.

In the creative sense, absolutely, games can be art. Even if the graphics were totally unpleasant to look at, a game can still be art. The depiction of some painting with Elephant dung breasts was considered art, (tasteless, kinda, but still art.) and people would consider it as being a unique form of art. If art is defined as the expressive nature of one's activities, then, sure, Video games are art. :shrug:

[Lutraphobiac]

I'd hate to go to language because so many people view art in different ways but here is the definition I found:


ard or -art suff

One that habitually or excessively is in a specified condition or performs a specified action: drunkard.


Oh shit wrong one!



art n.
1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.


By that definition, I think video games is art. The creator tries to imitate a world environment. The difference I think with video games is that the creator can explicitly imitate an experience. People can be affected by the game and get different things from Video Games that affect their lives... Isn't that what art is about?

[Grasshopper]

I actually like the definitions of 'art' from the Merriam-Webster dictionary instead of Dictionary.com. ;)

1. skill acquired by experience, study, or observation
4. the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects

aesthetic meaning being beautiful or attractive.

Programming would be an art in the first case as its a skill that one studies to learn. Using this 'art' people, can create beautiful video games, not only with graphics, but with music, with language, or something else entirely.

But then again, if you go strictly by this definition, wouldn't that mean that whether a particular game is art, is subjective to that individual? One may think some game is beautiful, but the other person may disagree. I guess this holds true with any medium.

Also, I think many things can be an art. Architects build structures that are majestic or awesome, that many consider art. Just look at the Guggenheim Muesum in Bilbao designed by Frank O. Gehry, or Frank Lloyd Wright's Falling Water. I consider these art.

Whether these objects influence people is another story. I don't think art has to influence to be art, which is kind of a paradox. :tongue:

Thank you for listening. :)

[Master Ghaleon]

Art Form - An activity or a piece of artistic work that can be regarded as a medium of artistic expression

I see Videogames as an Art Form.

[Axel]

I dunno. To go with an oft overused phrase: I don't know art, just what I like.
Seriously, I don't know what art is. I'm entertained by the Far Side, is it art? I very much enjoy Monty Python, are they artists? Weird Al never fails to amuse me, is he an artist? Hell, I love Risk, is it an artform?

[Darth Marsden]

When I first entered this thread, I wasn't really sure what to say. I didn't really know if video games could be considered art. But then your arguments got me thinking. If a game could be considered an art form, would that makes ALL games art forms? Would we all be willing to accept that Red Faction is a work of art? Quite obviously, the answer is no, because Red Faction sucks. But how about the truly great games? The ones that really immerse us in their world? I would say that games like that are art.

Take Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I consider that to be one of the greatest games ever made, and I'm certain several people here might agree with me on that (it's not THE greatest, but it's definately up there). It's one of the few games that genuinely drew people in, made you care about the characters, made you keep playing on and on until it was over, at which point you may well play it again. It stimulated your mind, it expanded your horizons.

And THAT is what a great work of art does. So yes, I consider games to be art. But only the truly great ones, the ones that we remember all out lives. The ones we keep playing, years after they were released. Games like Ocarina of Time, Half-Life, Mario 64. Games that opened our minds to new worlds and didn't let us go until we were finished.

Most games are just entertainment. Few are art. Treasure the ones that are.

[Aegix Drakan]

VideoGames, Art...Kinda catchy!

I think it depends on

A: the game in question
B: how you play the game
C: how good you are at it

I guess I can consider myself an artist now! lol

[Lutraphobiac]

Well there is good art and bad art. We went to art class in elementary to make sculptures out of paper towel rolls. Not exactly the pinnacle of art, but it is still defined to be such. The mear attempt at expression through video games production makes it art no matter how crappy it turns out to be.

Oh and the artist in the Video games sense would be the creator... Not the gamer.

[KingArthur]

I consider video games to be art, yes. Some Games, such as Rez or Lumines, are, at the very basic level, intended to be artistic. In other cases a game is art in many forms, take a Final Fantasy game for instance, you have the beautiful visuals, the music, and the Direction of the game, is it not fair to say that a collection of art that is brought together in a seamless way is, in itself, art?

[DarkDragoonX]

Indeed, video games are art. After all, art is nothing more than creative expression, and it seems to me that the act of creating characters, a world for said characters, etc., sure seems like it qualifies. The notion that something must have some kind of "meaningful quality," or "help you develop" to be real art is nothing but neo-postmodern bullshit.

And hell, if you insist, i can give you a "meaningful quality:" games can cause an emotional response. Maybe the ending to some game made you feel sad, or maybe it's a wild surge of exultation when you destroy your foe in an online game. It's still an emotional response.

Also, saying something can't be art because it's an "escape" is silly. Fiction novels (in particular fantasy, horror, and soft sci-fi) are escapism. Movies are escapism. Music can be a form of escapism. One could probably make a case for paintings and sculptures being escapism as well (at least, for the artist creating it). If we go by your definition of art as not including anything that lets people "escape," then we suddenly discover that art doesn't seem to exist any more. Indeed, I maintain that escapism is an essential part of art.

[Axel]

Perhaps we should stop and wonder. If videogames are art, are other games? Is Scrabble art, is Monopoly art, is Risk art? Is football art? Is poker art?

[DarkDragoonX]

That's where things get hazy. On one hand, playing a game really isn't art. That goes for video games, ass well. However, the creation of the game certainly is. Come to think of it, it is possible to consider playing the game a form of art, albeit a limited form. The ability to come up with a good word out of 7 tiles could be considered an art. The ability to negoiate well with other players for property could be considered an art. You could even consider the ability to rocket jump, then switch to a sniper rifle and get a headshot an art. And lets not forget that karate, kung-fu, and whatnot are called martial arts.

So, you could probably seperate art into physical and mental art. The task of creating something (such as painting a picture, composing a song, etc.) is a mental art, whereas the ability to elegantly perform a task well is physical art. Even then, that's a bit of an oversimplification.

[Darth Marsden]

And hell, if you insist, i can give you a "meaningful quality:" games can cause an emotional response. Maybe the ending to some game made you feel sad, or maybe it's a wild surge of exultation when you destroy your foe in an online game. It's still an emotional response.I can give you two examples of emotional responses in games. First, the oft-used death of Aeries from Final Fantasy VII. Secondly, the sacrifice of Bruno, from Broken Sword 3 (if you haven't played this yet, please do). Both involve the deaths of characters, and both will move you.

[Yoshiman]

I'd have to say that a lot of videogames are art. When you think about it, someone had to design the characters and enemies. Someone was hired to give Link a more detailed look for Twilight Princess. Someone thought of the symbolism for the monsters in Silent Hill. Several games, you can see the work that the creators put into the environments. They didn't just slap a grey triangle on the horizon and called it a mountain. Someone had to draw it.

Then you think of the music that was composed for the game. If the particular song has lyrics, someone with talent had to sing them. Also, you have some games that have really good voice actors. Tales of Symphonia is probably the best I've heard so far.

People also wrote the story for the games. While a lot of games are the basic "save the girl," others like RPGs and survival horrors have a much deeper story. You'd have to think about the people who sat around and thought these up.

Playing the game isn't as artistic as actually creating it. As with a painting, just looking at it isn't the same as actually sitting in front of a canvas and creating.


Also, saying something can't be art because it's an "escape" is silly. Fiction novels (in particular fantasy, horror, and soft sci-fi) are escapism. Movies are escapism. Music can be a form of escapism. One could probably make a case for paintings and sculptures being escapism as well (at least, for the artist creating it). If we go by your definition of art as not including anything that lets people "escape," then we suddenly discover that art doesn't seem to exist any more. Indeed, I maintain that escapism is an essential part of art.
I'd have to agree here as well. When you're drawing, writing a song, or sculpting, the artist tends to pour out their feelings. It really is a good way to get something out of your mind. You can even do it in a really subtle way. Really, only the artist knows the true meaning behind their work.

[Axel]

How about this: First time defeating the Tunderbird, I dropped the controler, jumped up, and shouted "Take that you fucking bastard!" Thirty seconds later I discovered Shadow Link and nearly cried.

Or this one: First time he got to Venom II my brother encountered Star Wolf 2. Much cursing later he was flying around in circles with one wing hitting the blaster button as fast as possible, not really caring. Suddenly we hear Wolf being shot down. At the same time Wolf and Justin shout, "No way! I don't believe it!"

[Daarkseid]

Indeed, video games are art. After all, art is nothing more than creative expression, and it seems to me that the act of creating characters, a world for said characters, etc., sure seems like it qualifies. The notion that something must have some kind of "meaningful quality," or "help you develop" to be real art is nothing but neo-postmodern bullshit.


This is actually the definition of art that I go by, which is why I don't particularly put so much esteem in the concept. Anyone who's ever decided to smear their own feces on something in non-random pattern on the toilet stall of a public restroom is an artist.

Videogames are themselves an artform, but how significant of an art form, is up to people's interpretation.

[Grasshopper]

Anyone who's ever decided to smear their own feces on something in non-random pattern on the toilet stall of a public restroom is an artist.

Ugh. :odd:

But, wouldn't you think art has to be created by someone who has a skill. This applies to the definition of an artist. A person who makes video games has learned the skill of programming and applied that skill to creating something for us. Most of us seem to agree that games are an art, and the creators are the artists

If you smear feces all over a bathroom stall, I don't see how that can be art. There was no skill behind it, nobody will appreciate it, and most likely, the person is being a nuisance. Besides, that art isn't just bad, it stinks. :laughing:

[DarkDragoonX]

Anyone who's ever decided to smear their own feces on something in non-random pattern on the toilet stall of a public restroom is an artist.

Videogames are themselves an artform, but how significant of an art form, is up to people's interpretation.

Pretty much, yeah. People have this wierd mental image that all art has to be like the Sistine Chapel, or the Mona Lisa, or something, but techically, making a picture out of shit is art.

Of course, just because something is art, that doesn't make it GOOD art.

[Grasshopper]

Hehe. Its funny seeing where this is headed.

To me, art doesn't have to be like the Sistine Chapel, but I'll be darned if I'm going to think "poop pictures" are art. :laughing:

[vegeta1215]

I appreciate art in games, but gameplay should not suffer at the expense of art. Legend of Mana, which I'm currently playing, is one such game. The game is gorgeous, but unfortunately it isn't that great :(

[Daarkseid]

I appreciate art in games, but gameplay should not suffer at the expense of art. Legend of Mana, which I'm currently playing, is one such game. The game is gorgeous, but unfortunately it isn't that great :sad:

Yeah, that game has such a gorgeous presentation that I really wish the graphics, characters and music could be salvaged and made into a game thats actually worth playing.

[Lilith]

The concept of art as a form of expression is relatively new, which is why I don't go by it. A lot of what people consider to be the best art was art in the Renissance which was commission by rich people or religious organizations. A certain degree of expression was used, but the artist often had to paint or edit things exactly to the patron's favor.

[Axel]

That means "art" simply refers to any skillful work, doesn't it? So yes, video games are art, provided the people who worked on them produced something good. As long as the game's good then it's art.

[g4conman]

In my vision :rolleyes: ... video games are art ... and i am an artist! (game design ;) )

[Daarkseid]

In my vision :rolleyes: ... video games are art ... and i am an artist! (game design ;) )

Ugh, GOD I want to hit you!!!

[Darth Marsden]

In my vision :rolleyes: ... video games are art ... and i am an artist! (game design ;) )If that's true, then I'm more of an artist then you, because I designed, planned and created my own game. Nya! But then you don't see me bragging about it, do you? Just imploring people to Beta Test the thing...

[Aegix Drakan]

Yo, I actually programmed an entire game from scratch last year (Secondary 5, or grade 11, i think) using only Visual Basics.

it was an FPS sequel to Earthbound (SNES). I had shops, I had original Earthbound monsters, and I had a game of mastermind.

Once I finished, I had much more respect for all programmers out there, because the ever-present glitches seriously pissed me off.