Revising 9/11

[carrot red]

On the first three anniversaries of Sept. 11, 2001, the nation had the grim luxury of uncluttered memory. We looked back on that day's events as the most terrible thing that could happen on American soil. Today, we are cursed with an unwanted expansion of that vision.

It took a day or two after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast to understand that it could affect our feelings about what happened at the World Trade Center, at the Pentagon and in rural Pennsylvania. After all, the people who died on Sept. 11 were murdered by other human beings. Katrina's malevolence was only a metaphor, no matter how damaging its winds. But by the time the hurricane died down and the floodwaters stopped rising, it became clear that this hurricane would force us to revise 9/11, which, until now, had defined the limits of tragedy in America.

Without realizing it, we had internalized what happened four years ago in a rather tidy story arc: Terrorists struck with brutal violence and the country responded. Everyone rose to the occasion - rallying around New York City, comforting the survivors and doing "whatever it takes" to make the country, if not totally safe, at least totally ready for whatever came next. Mistakes were made, but we would learn from them, and wind up stronger and better prepared.

Given the area it affected and its potential death toll, Katrina perfectly simulated a much larger terrorist attack than the one that hit New York. It was nearly nuclear in scale. Everyone did not behave well. Local first responders went missing, or failed to rise to the occasion, or were simply overwhelmed. Leaders did not lead, and on many counts the federal government was less prepared to respond than it had been when the World Trade Center towers still stood.

We felt that 9/11 had changed our lives in an instant, that we had been jerked out of a pleasant dream. The difference in the blow that Katrina struck was not merely that we could see it coming. It was that, as a nation, we thought we were already fully awake.
The above is an editorial from the New York Times. You could read the rest of them here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/opinion/11sun1.html).


Do you still remember where you were and what you were doing on Tuesday 11 September 2001?

[deathbyhokie]

i was at school. heard about what had happened from the ROTC kids. half of the kids went home because they were scared or some such BS

[Darth Marsden]

I, as back then, have no idea where I was on 9/11 (which should really be called 11/9, but you Americans and your date systems :p ), but I remember feeling horrible for a few days. People died, and they shouldn't have done. The whole situation was handled badly, and I place a large amount of the blame on George Dubya. I believe him to be a terrible president, and I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. Woah. Off-topic.

Incidentally, Michael Moore is, apparently, seriously considering doing a film about Katrina and it's aftermath, much the same as he did for 9/11. I'd like to see it, but I don't know how others feel about it. Thoughts?

[Tygore]

In school, heard about it between my first and second period classes. I also remember that no work at all got done that day, and it was all in all a pretty depressing mood.

Marsden, the problem with Michael Moore's films is he has a habit of taking things extremely out of context in order to portray the message he wants to portray. In fact, in one of his films(I believe it was Bowling for Columbine) he was caught actually making stuff up. I can assure you that any movie he makes on Katrina will not do anything as far as help remember the tragedy or comfort the families, but instead take partial facts and mis-placed quotes and paste them together to continue to portray everyone involved taht he doesn't like as incompetant.

[Beldaran]

George W did a great job after 9/11 and experienced the higest approval ratings in the history of an american president. What exactly should he have done differently, DM? Stopped the planes with his mind? Is that what we expect from presidents now?

[Tygore]

No, we just say bad things about the ones we don't like regardless of how things get done.

[Darth Marsden]

No, we just say bad things about the ones we don't like regardless of how things get done.Damn, you've caught me. I don't like George Dubya. Not that I disbelieve you guys, but can you point me in the direction of some proof that he's done a good job regarding 9/11 and Katrina? I find it a little hard to find stuff, what with all the movies and flash games telling me how terrible a president he is.

[Archibaldo]

I remember that I had just come back from recess. We all sat down and my tacher said that there had been an attack on NY. He then explained what had happened.

[Beldaran]

Damn, you've caught me. I don't like George Dubya. Not that I disbelieve you guys, but can you point me in the direction of some proof that he's done a good job regarding 9/11 and Katrina? I find it a little hard to find stuff, what with all the movies and flash games telling me how terrible a president he is.

Well how can I argue with movies and flash games? What better way to build an opinion than to watch movies and play flash games.

I'm not saying GW is a great president, but he did a really good job right after 9/11 and for one brief moment the legislative and executive branch worked together to make things right. Of course, it was all lies and posturing. Now we're back to ruinous and irrational bureaucracy and red tape, not to mention corruption and politcal maneuvering on behalf of both the administration AND congress.

Blah. Politics = ass.

[Some Kinda Hate]

I was asleep in history class while everyone else was watching the news. I was sad of course, don't get me wrong but shit happens and I deal with it my own way. Sleep was called for.

[phattonez]

Damn, you've caught me. I don't like George Dubya. Not that I disbelieve you guys, but can you point me in the direction of some proof that he's done a good job regarding 9/11 and Katrina? I find it a little hard to find stuff, what with all the movies and flash games telling me how terrible a president he is.
I found this story online.

Who's to Blame in New Orleans:


If critics of the Hurricane Katrina disaster are going to play the blame game, they should at least play according to Hoyle.
In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsibility for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:
1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President



What did each do?
1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). Then he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees)
3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them
5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.

Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt government going all the way back to Huey Long.

Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the politicians and their friends.

Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for every little thing.

Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang violence to flourish.

The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and died needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them. For those who missed item 5 (where the President's level of accountability is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune article dated August 28:
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis mine)
The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin's court to carry out the evacuation order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his administration made a very bad call.
Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed lethal, mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.
As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police chief should resign as well. That city's government is incompetent from one end to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this crowd of clowns is capable of giving them.

If you're keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans–in one trip–get ruined in the floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been if they'd bothered to follow it.

As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from prominent blacks on the left, don't expect Ray Nagin to be called out on the carpet for falling short. You want to know why? Here's why:
It's more convenient to blame a white president for what went wrong than to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency preparedness plan.
To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of 'Racism!". It's sad, it's wrong, but it's standard operating procedure for the media and left-wing black leadership.
Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, or Kanye West being directed toward Raymond Nagin. Why? Because he is a mere black politician instead of an effective elected official who happens to be black. In the mindset of more-blacker-than-thou blacks, black politicians who are on their side can do no wrong.
I hope that shows you that Bush was not responsible for the damage that Katrina caused.

[carrot red]

Damn, you've caught me. I don't like George Dubya. Not that I disbelieve you guys, but can you point me in the direction of some proof that he's done a good job regarding 9/11 and Katrina? I find it a little hard to find stuff, what with all the movies and flash games telling me how terrible a president he is.
And I don't like Jacques Chirac, but that doesn't make me an expert on French affairs.

Here's a link to *all you want to know about 9/11 (http://www.travelinlibrarian.info/911/).* I don't think Mister Moore is listed though. AND it's a tad longer than movies and flash games. : p

[Saffith]

It's silly to say that only the federal government handled Katrina badly, or that only the city and state governments screwed up. They all screwed up.


Then he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.A commonly made point, but people always seem to forget that buses alone aren't enough. They need drivers, too, as well as clear streets to drive on. And gas. Did they have those things? I don't know. No one ever mentions that part.


Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.The Louisiana Corp of Engineers, mostly. They were the ones in charge of the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project. They'd been at it for about ten years. But from 2003 on, the federal government started cutting more and more of the corps's funding for the sake of things like the war in Iraq and homeland security. They only had a fraction of the money they needed for hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of vital projects. They didn't even have enough money left to research what they would need to do to protect the city from something like Katrina.

Gah. I'm not going on. Politics make me sick.

(edit: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/katrina.asp - good stuff there)

Oh, on-topic stuff. Right.
Um, I was at school. The teacher never showed up for my first class. The second was as usual. After that I went home, looked at stuff online for a bit, then played Fallout 2 for the rest of the day.
I'm good at ignoring things.

[Master Ghaleon]

I was watching MSNBC and it came up that 1 plane hit the WTC, I was like wtf and laughed and yelled to mom that some tard ran into the building. Then when the 2nd one hit then I knew it couldnt of been just an accident.

[Beldaran]

I was watching MSNBC and it came up that 1 plane hit the WTC, I was like wtf and laughed and yelled to mom that some tard ran into the building. Then when the 2nd one hit then I knew it couldnt of been just an accident.

That was exactly my response. Before I knew what had really happened, I just thought some dunce in a plane accidentally ran into a building. I thought it was funny until I heard that it was a passenger jet and then more planes were crashing. It wasn't funny once I realized we were under attack.

[Tygore]

Great link Saffith. It lead me to this: http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693
A really great read. I found points 2 and 3 hilarious, and point 10 was really insightful.

[slothman]

I was sleeping when it happened.


...
I'm not saying GW is a great president, but he did a really good job right after 9/11 and for one brief moment the legislative and executive branch worked together to make things right. ...
Yes the two branches worked together to pass the so-called patriot act.

In any case he did nothing pertaining to the acts directly.
Anything that could have been was done by the mayor. And he didn't do anything. Just the firefighters and so forth. All the leaders did was pass laws and create security methods that delayed people and wouldn't have stopped in the first place.
Or at least I learned that from my god Moore. :D

[Beldaran]

And he didn't do anything.

I wish I could visit your fantasy world.

[Machiavelli]

I was at school. My class found out when our history techer told us. We didn't think it was that serious. Kids were getting picked up like crazy. Names were being called over the loudspeaker one after the other. We went to lunch. More names of kids getting picked up were called. They called me and my cousin too. We got picked up by our neighbor. My mom was at work in Manhatten. I didn't know why she couldnt get back at the time. My neighbor told us the same thing the history teacher did. Didn't know how serious it was. We went home and turned on the tv. OMG. It sunk in slowly. It felt like a movie. Like it wasn't supposed to be real. But it was.

[moocow]

I was in one of related classes when I first heard about it, then we spent the next period in our government class watching it on the news. I think they even had TVs in the cafeteria, but I can't quite remember as it was four years ago which is a really long time. I *do* remember going home to a very sad little sister, because it was her 10th birthday and she was way bummed about it.

[Drunken Tiger]

I dont know the complete details on the hurricane situation, but whats shown in the media here is a frustrated New Orleans government and a whole lotta people blaming Bush.. Im not going to attempt to place blame, but there seems to be more bitching then helping.. At least thats whats portrayed over here..

The only things i hear on the news is of the looting and the shooting of looters..
Oh, and also a bunch for African-American All Stars are going to play a bball game to raise money..

But

Back to the topic, I found out in teh mornign when i turned on teh tv.. At first i thought that it was just a preview for some movie.. I remember reading Nelson DeMilles "Lion's Game" which had a eerily resemblance to Sept 11.. But yeah, felt like shit when it happened.. It was a bit suprising and i didnt know where it would all lead.. I still dont have a very clear picture of where we are heading.. But it has brought terrorism back into the spotllight..

[SixTen]

I heard about it in my first period class, but the only thing I knew was 'a plane crashed into the world trade cneter'. I thought is was a cessna or something and I remember thinking how boring a cessna crash was an why it was so important. Later that day, before the end of that first class actually, I was in the nurses office trying to bullshit my way into getting out of school when the announcement came that two airliners hit the towers. We didn't even get out of school, I was not happy.

[DsS Game]

honestly I still don't want to remember that. My mother was still at work. MY High School was on strike so we left early. The Tekken Community lost its chance of expanding with the Tekken comics. We lost a great gal in Linda Baker.

Ugh....

[MacWeirdo42]

I was in first period when it happened. We didn't get out of class or anything, but we certainly didn't get anything done that day. Spent all day glued to the TV. God, we tuned in just in time to see the towers collapse. That was the worst.

To jump on the semi-political bandwagon here, I'd just like to say that as much as I can't stand Bush, I can't really fault him for his actions in dealing with 9/11. That said, it pisses me off to no end how much 9/11 has been exploited in the name of politics. Granted, the ability to deal with such a disaster is very important when it comes to leadership, but for the love of God, the way it's paraded is just disgraceful. Over 3,000 die and all the bastards (Republicans and Democrats alike) can think about it how to best exploit it to get more votes. Oh, and for the record, Bush's approval rating had nothing to do with how well he handled it. Would've happened no matter who was in office. An outside threat can be a very unifying force, so approval ratings in times of crisis don't necessarily correlate to how well the crisis is being handled. Not trying to judge his abilities or anything, just saying there really isn't any fair and unbiased way to judge such things.

[Daarkseid]

I was in bed, sleeping peacefully. The god damn terrorist attacks rudely awakened me, as my parents came in and turned on the TV to show me what had happened. Some of the best sleep I've ever had was ruined.

Thankfully, hurricane katrina, despite being several times more destructive, didn't have any of that subtextual BS, so nobody felt it was necessary to wake me up to show me that people were looting in New Orleans.

Americans are all fucking drama queens, I swear.

[slothman]

I want to visit your fantasy world where he is great and the fourth best president.


I wish I could visit your fantasy world.

What did he do? I know of nothing sigificant.

[Gerudo]

where was i? working at a hotel. some guest came up and told us (because yanno, we werent allowed to go watch it, but i did anyways) so i called my bro and told him to turn on the tv.

then, what followed is the best definition of price gauging ever. instead of offering discounted rooms to people affected by the cancelled flights, the manager told us to quote full price only ($129/rm). yup, glad i was driving and not clerking.

[carrot red]

What did he do? I know of nothing sigificant.
If you only rely on your god Moore, you wouldn't. Were you in Great Britain with DM by any chance when all of this happened?

[Lutraphobiac]

I was in English class where I heard that a helicoptor ran into the WTC and the pentagon collapsed. Funny how rumors can be utter bullshit. The rest of the day I remember being glued to the TV. Our history teacher actually had us watching the news everyday because he figured we should WATCH history in the making.

On the subject of George Bush:

To get this out the way, I don't like him. But I am of no party affiliation.

BUT I do think he did some good things after 9/11. He should some strong support for the people suffering on the sight. It may have been largely symbolic or staged but it still is great for Moral. He then ordered military action on a country that was harboring the group that was DIRECTLY involved with 9/11.

This is where I think he started to get off track. He did not finish the job in afganistan. Basically the only things we did was demolish a tyrannical regime and nullify most major terrorist activity. We failed to kill Osama and then use afghanistan as a way to spread influence in the Middle East. He then seemed to pursue his own interests. Mislead us into going into Iraq. He argues that Iraq will be the beginning off a "Democratic Domino Effect" and somehow be a focal point of a war on terror. Somehow those don't seen to mix. Another thing that I don't enjoy is how he is uding 9/11 as political clout to attack opponents.

That is enough of that..

[slothman]

If you only rely on your god Moore, you wouldn't. Were you in Great Britain with DM by any chance when all of this happened?
You didn't answer. You only ad hominimed. Did he send troops? Did he send money that could be spent wisely? Did he pass useful laws?

[Yoshiman]

I was sitting in class (7th grade) writing down the daily journal thing (I think the subject was how technology advanced), when the phone rang and the teach picked it up. Then she said things like "Your kidding... Oh no..." Some people wondered, but we didn't see it as anything really important. Then about half of the school was getting called to be picked up. By then, we were all confused. None of the teachers would tell us anything.

When I got on my bus, the driver had the radio turned off. None of the other kids knew what was going on either, and when we asked the bus driver, she said she "wasn't allowed to have the radio on now." So by now, we're all wondering if WWIII started or something.

When I got home, my mum had the news (which wasn't hard to find) on. She asked me if I knew what was going on, and she finally explained what happened.

[ShadowTiger]

I was a sophomore in High School. I had keyboarding class at the time, third period. At around 9:14, or somewhen like that, the Dean walked in and told the teacher that a plane had just crashed into one of the trade buildings. Several of the students made jokes; some laughed, some were worried, ... ... Then fifteen to thirty minutes later, the same guy came into tell us a second place crashed into the trade centers. Nobody could concentrate for the rest of the day. You couldn't go anywhere without hearing one of three words: "Trade" "Center" or "plane."

[phattonez]

I guess I missed the point of this thread before. Anyway:

I was sleeping, and my dad was downstairs (I was in 7th grade). I heard my dad yelling to my mom what happened, and I was telling them to shutup because I was sleeping. I then went downstairs and saw what happened. Obviously, being only in 7th grade, I did not grasp the full emotion of what happened. I got to school and everyone was acting crazy. There were a ton of rumors going around, a lot of questions, and no work got done that day. My dad had the day off (he works for the state), so he picked me up early. The things they had planned for after school were cancelled, and I got to hear about it non-stop on the news. At that age I did not care about those people, and was just waiting for my cartoons to come back on the air. (What a selfish bitch I was)

[slothman]

Obviously it isn't good, well except for the people who caused it, but I don't like it on 3 dozen channels at once.

[Great Warrior]

i was sick in bed and i had fever. my mother came to tell me and it took me time to grasp what she was saying and what i was seeing. i thought the fever made me delirious.