View Full Version : Isometric Drawing and Dungeon Carving

Dark Nation
08-01-2005, 04:22 PM
Not sure if this warranted its own thread, as it's just a tiny improvement to ZQuest, but here goes anyway...

Isometric Drawing Mode
http://darknation.armageddongames.net/isometric/isometric.htm (100k of pictures, nam)

Dungeon Carving Mode
http://darknation.armageddongames.net/dungeon/dungeon.htm (377k in pictures, nam)

looney linklord
08-01-2005, 04:46 PM
is this something already put in, or you want to be put in?

08-01-2005, 04:51 PM
nam = not a mockup :p so, yeah, its real.

looney linklord
08-01-2005, 04:52 PM
well it's not working!

08-01-2005, 05:05 PM
Dark Nation, you continue to shatter the limits of expectation. Thank you.

08-01-2005, 06:10 PM
well it's not working!It's in a private beta. You'll see it eventually, when it goes public. ;) But of course, as usual, the testers must get all the kinks out before that happens, so count your blessings that you're not getting a version as bugged as the testers must wade through.


[/Exaggeration] ... :p The Developers are all extremely competant of course, and don't let many bugs slip in at all.

08-01-2005, 06:57 PM
Thats gonna be SWEET! You guys continue to amaze me.

08-01-2005, 09:05 PM
I can see how that feature would help.

08-02-2005, 12:59 AM
Not what I was expecting when I heard "Isometric", but very very very very very useful. Seriously.

08-02-2005, 07:48 AM
I agree. This would take lots of time out of creating custom formed dungeons. Can't wait!

08-02-2005, 09:47 AM
Technicly this isn't Isometrics. Isometrics is when its drawn at an angle or a slant. Such as this,

Dark Nation
08-02-2005, 10:38 AM
I know. It's psudeo-isometric. Actually, it's more akin to starcraft's (and maybe warcraft's?) way of making maps, without the isometric rotation. Any ideas what to call it? Relational mode, perhaps?

08-02-2005, 12:47 PM
How about "Continuous Carving" and "Dungeon Carving" or something like that. The only thing is though, you'll have to memorize what order each combo gets placed--i could see someone (ah hem...myself!) using this & the wrong corners are being placed when drawing so it would appear to not be working right, but it simply is that the combos are set up wrong.

08-02-2005, 01:12 PM
What about continuous sculpt? carving is nice, just not so official sounding, lol

08-02-2005, 01:15 PM

08-02-2005, 01:17 PM
Carving, or Excavation sounds fairly nice. I mean, you're clearing away excess dungeon wall material, so, ... sure, why not. :shrug:

I mean, Dungeon Wall "Carving" is basically the opposite of what you're doing in Isometric Mode. With Isometric Mode, you're building the interior or something, and with"Carving" Mode, everything else moulds around the shape you're drawing.


But that was obvious. :sweat:

08-02-2005, 02:07 PM
Seems to me that this creates a sort of maliable terrain, so a term that sounds maliable would be appropriate. Something like 'earth putty' or 'terrain sculpting'.

08-02-2005, 02:52 PM
This will be incredibly useful when making dungeons that aren't just a normal rectangle. I assume this beta is coming out soon correct?

08-02-2005, 03:55 PM
This will be an exceptional help and a huge time-saver. Superb job, DN.

08-02-2005, 03:56 PM
just downloaded zc v2.10w i click on it my screen flickers and an error report comes up on window. currently running winxp w/ pack

08-03-2005, 04:39 PM
Quick question here, will Dungeon Carving between screens?

08-03-2005, 05:30 PM
I'd imagine that you would need to draw floor/water tiles to the side of both screens where a path meets up. That doesn't seem too bad to me, as much of the tedium of making free-form rooms will disappear.

08-03-2005, 05:30 PM
Well, I'm sure you can just press the cursor up against the edge of the screen, then go to the next screen in question, and go to its respecting partner location on the other edge, and it'll work out anyway. :shrug:

08-03-2005, 07:21 PM
Actually that brings up an interesting question. If I use the isometric mode and draw a lake up to the edge of the screen, does the water look like it is going off the screen, or does it draw an edge there?

05-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Can someone show me the order the combos have to be in to get this to work?

05-06-2006, 01:06 PM


05-06-2006, 01:15 PM
Read this:

Yes, the combos have to be in a specific order. All of the combos are water (or path or whatever you are 'carving' with) combos (except for the last one, which is a land combo, and it's type is set to 'none'. The first combo is completely water. The other 46 are water with the following land pieces on them:

Top Right Corner
Top Left Corner
Top Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Left Corner
Bottom Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Left Corner, Top Left Corner
Bottom Left Corner, Top Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Right Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Top Left Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Top Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Bottom Left Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Bottom Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Bottom Left Corner, Top Left Corner
Bottom Right Corner, Bottom Left Corner, Top Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Right Side
Right Side, Top Left Corner
Right Side, Bottom Right Corner
Right Side, Bottom Right Corner, Top Left Corner
Top Side
Top Side, Bottom Left Corner
Top Side, Bottom Right Corner
Top Side, Bottom Left Corner, Bottom Right Corner
Top Side, Right Side
Top Side, Right Side, Bottom Left Corner
Left Side
Left Side, Top Right Corner
Left Side, Bottom Right Corner
Left Side, Top Right Corner, Bottom Right Corner
Left Side, Right Side
Left Side, Top Side
Left Side, Top Side, Bottom Right Corner
Left Side, Top Side, Right Side
Bottom Side
Bottom Side, Top Right Corner
Bottom Side, Top Left Corner
Bottom Side, Top Left Corner, Top Right Corner
Bottom Side, Right Side
Bottom Side, Right Side, Top Left Corner
Bottom Side, Top Side
Bottom Side, Top Side, Right Side
Bottom Side, Left Side
Bottom Side, Left Side, Top Right Cormer
Bottom Side, Left Side, Right Side
Bottom Side, Left Side, Top Side
Bottom Side, Left Side, Top Side, Right Side

Basically, it's a binary progression. Starting with the top right corner and progressing counter clockwise, then going through the sides, starting with the right and going counter clockwise. So, there are 8 land pieces to go through. Why, then, aren't there 256 combos? Because a side piece uses up the corners that it touches. For instance, the combo with the left and right sides touching land are touching the top right, top left, bottom left, and bottom right corners, so that one combo is used for 16 different neighboring combo possibilities.

And yes, I was drawing with only one combo, the isometric mode just changed it on the fly as it was being placed on the screen. Also, yes, you could use this for paths, grass, pits, or anything where you have two things that need to smoothly border each other.

As for dungeon walls, if it's a 1-tile high wall, it might work, but the dungeon walls in Zelda are generally 2 tiles high. It may be possible to modify the code to accomodate 2-tier changes like that, but it would exponentially increase the amount of combos you would have to set up (might be worth it, though). In any event, I'll look into it.

Anyway, I've been thinking about this idea for a while now (ever since I first saw isometric maps in StarCraft) and just recently got around to coming up with the algorithm for the combo placement.

05-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Thanks for that but do I do these on the combo pages going across or on the main combo side pannel using each 4 in a row of combo names here for each row?

05-07-2006, 12:03 AM
These three are for Dungeon Carving mode. I'm not sure where my Isometric Mode setup is, but it's surprisingly similar, if not identical to the first part of the Dungeon Carving mode setup. (The "first part" is the lighter areas, ending just before the "X" above the last line of the left column of the dungeon carving areas.)

05-07-2006, 06:22 AM
Thanks Shadowcat. Is that all on one combo page?

Nicholas Steel
05-07-2006, 07:51 AM
who's shadowcat?

05-07-2006, 08:59 AM
I can only assume that since Limzo knows me from PureZC, (BTW, don't forget to come back. :p ) he knows that my name isn't "bh4" as you like to call me, but "ShadowTiger" ... Got it franpa? :p

Limzo, no, those are just examples. Save them to your hard drive for future reference, but don't actually rip them. You can even print them out to make things easier. :)

In the combo page, they don't need to be set up next to each other. I just displayed them like that on the forum itself. They can be anywhere you'd like in the combo page, I guess. Just note that you need to keep each combo group together. Note the floor combo at the end of each section. That marks the last combo of the "group" of combos that works together in Dungeon Carving mode to use the function.

05-07-2006, 10:15 AM
You may check this quest as well, it's unpassworded. (http://darknation.armageddongames.net/sejarah/zc211b5/relational2.qst)

05-07-2006, 12:03 PM
Thanks for all this. I shall release 2 versions of my tileset (in the same ZIP file of course). One not laid out for relational drawing/dungeon carving and one laid out for it. Oh, and I am coming back to pure ST.

05-07-2006, 12:57 PM
I think you may have overcomplicated things a bit, why not program things so that each block can be cut up and placed accordingly, then you'd only need the major parts..

(Kinda got the idea from RPG Maker.. :sweat: )

05-07-2006, 01:23 PM
nioro, you can do that even now with your combo page, or Combo Aliases, or Brush dimensions mode. ;) Unless you're using Combo Aliases for them, you can arrange your Combo page in stamps of 2x2 or 1x2 or 2x1 (etc) pieces.

05-07-2006, 09:25 PM
Well I feel like a moron..

I do hope we were referring to the same thing..

Nicholas Steel
05-07-2006, 09:54 PM
i only call you bh4 Britannianhero4 because its smaller and i've seen other people (maybe years ago) do it aswell... i also wasnt 100% sure that shadowtiger was you at purezc... anywho if ya don't like being called bh4 just let me know and i'll stop it ok?

05-08-2006, 09:10 AM
Just call me ST and it'll be fine in any case. :p It's one letter shorter than "BH4" anyway, and it's not like your fingers are doing any extra work. :sweat: Plus I've got my sig blurb in huge red italicized letters which people frequently ignore for whatever reason, (And I rarely deactivate my sig herelike I do at Pure.)

Did you get the setup working right? I might be able to spare an excerpt from NeoFirst when I get the chance. It's in the DoR set: If you're using that, it should rip right in. Otherwise you may need to do some recoloring. :p

Oh, and as for the Dungeon Carving mode, I'm using the less complicated version. I just don't feel that people need to set up such elaborate walls such as to allow for a star-shaped configuration of dungeon walls. X x. A nice evenly squared off dungeon shaped room will suffice any day of the week.

05-08-2006, 11:43 AM
I am in fact creating (well, riping anyway) the Pokemon Leafgreen tileset and will have a knack at using this with the Pokemon house interiors. I'll post back here when I've tried.
Edit: It does not work with the Pokemon house interiors, there are not enough tiles to do it. I will try when I rip the Power Plant tiles.

Nicholas Steel
05-08-2006, 07:16 PM
ST: i disabled signatures. (because i hate scrolling through big fat arsed ones)

05-15-2006, 05:07 PM
Ah yes, not to be a jerk or anything, but this is something that the rpg maker series has done for years,they call it something like auto tiles or something, I'm just happy to see something like it in Zelda classic finaly.