So much for small government

[Axel]

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/05/real_id.html
Now isn't that worrying?

[Gerudo]

lovely...

when it comes out, it'll be another card to stick in my wallet.

[ShadowTiger]

...


O_o


Gee, I've always wanted to go to hell in a handbasket ... Just great. So where's the logic and consideration behind this ... "Making us LESS safe?" :odd:

Of course, that's only looking at the detrimental points.

[JayeM]

Bush has a plan, a "hidden agenda"...watch the pieces fall into place. It's scary.

[AtmaWeapon]

I want mine placed subdermally in either my right hand or my forehead.

Seriously, I want to say "Hey guys there is no way this will pass" or "This is a blog with an obvious bias that isn't necessarily telling an un-spun version of the story" but instead I am adopting the "Proceed with caution" mentality.

I personally don't know how public support would be found for such a program. Additionally, this is a severe violation of states' rights and I'd love to see the states rally for their rights again. Nothing beats the hot brother-on-brother action of a civil war :)

[Ich]

I just am going to throw this in here. I'm a Libertarian; internal passports suck.

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." (Rev. 13:16-18)

[AtmaWeapon]

*edit* I wondered how long until the Mark of the Beast was brought up. Too bad the Bible explicitly states this will be a mark on the right hand or the forehead and that it will be a globally recognized thing rather than nationally recognized. *end edit*

Oh look, Atma read the bill and once again found evidence that bloggers can post anything sensational and people will believe it, just like big media! Even I was fooled by the majesty of Bruce Schnier's receding hairline and sexy greying beard. The resemblance to Bert from Sesame Street tells me this man is a friend who can say no wrong! Thanks for making me look like a sheep and here is my revenge.

Go here and search for H.R. 1268. (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c109query.html) I'd directly link but it seems search results expire after a while. Look for the one labeled something like "Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)[H.R.1268.EH]" This, as I understand it, is the bill (only one other even has this section inside of it). Look around for "TITLE II-IMPROVED SECURITY FOR DRIVERS' LICENSES AND PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS". For those too lazy to do the minimal research to decide on this bill, here are but a few of the horrors the government is about to require on your driver's license:

Full legal name Date of birth Gender Driver's License number Photograph Address Signature Some form of counterfeit protection Some form of machine-readable data field; most likely a magnetic stripe though we could use a sexy QR code

Not only that, but look at the red tape that has been added to the application process:

You must have some form of ID document with your photo or any ID document that contains your full legal name and date of birth (read: birth certificate) Some documentation showing your date of birth Proof of your SSN or some valid reason why you are not eligible for one Some documentation showing your name and the address you claim to be your residence.

In addition to all of this BRAND NEW RED TAPE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, the state must verify that you (probably one of the following, the bill isn't clear and will probably be amended to work this out)
Are a citizen of the USA Are a legal alien with legal permanent or temporary residence status Have conditional permanent resident status Have an approved application for asylum in the USA or you are in refugee status Have a valid nonimmigrant visa Have a pending application for asylum in the US Have a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the US Have approved deferred action status Long sentence that basically means you have a pending application to become a legal alien

IN ADDITION, those poor souls who can only meet 5-9 from the above list (read: not an American citizen but allowed to stay), you can only get a temporary license or ID card! What isolation!

The states must also engage in the following spooky activities:

Retain digital images of the documents presented as proof of identity. Retain paper copies or images of identity documents for 7 years. Subject each person to mandatory facial image capture (Kind of redundant given the requirement for a photo on the license) "Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information" (legal speak for "loophole in case a Senator's buddy screws up and lets some terrorist re-apply for a dead man's license") Confirm with the SSA that the SSN you deliver is in fact valid and not registered to another person. Don't give a license to people from other states unless they terminate the license from the other state. Don't outsource the printing and storage of documents to non-secured partners. Require security clearance for employees that distribute licenses. Train employees to recognize fraudulent documents. No license can be valid for more than 8 years.

In addition, the state must create a database that links driver's licenses to their personal data and the drivers' histories of the current driver.

Good Lord it's 1984, this is double-plus ungood! Oh wait, this is simply a law that formalizes the process that most states already have in place for the distribution of drivers' licenses. I know for a fact that Mississippi already meets most of these requirements. They added the magnetic strip a couple of years back; I haven't received one yet but I will in 2006 when I renew. I'm not certain about the document retention, but given that Sec. 205 gives the Secretary the power to make grants to States to assist in the compliance I'm sure we'll manage to come up with a document management system.

Nothing to see here, kids. Every now and then a little simple journalism goes a long way.

Oh you thought I was done? I decided to tear apart Schneier's weaksauce rants since it appears he did not read or even bother to interpret the bill as it stands.

First, this is not a national ID card. This is a standard set of requirements that all State ID cards must implement. Your state can still put a picture of a Mazda with spinnaz in the background if they feel so inclined, and they can proudly claim they are the only state to do so. However, if they decide that birthdates are for squares and omit them from the licenses, the State's citizens will be upset when their requests for federal services are rejected. Then, the officials responsible for the omission of the birthdates will be replaced with men who drive real cars, like Subarus.

The idea that the businesses that require and milk information from this "machine readable technology" is pretty neat and I'm glad Schneier thought of it before the bars did so they can get ready to exploit this. Due to the prolific consumption of alcohol by my peers in high school I can imagine that all of them had their IDs scrupulously checked and had to fill out an application before they could get their beer. Or it could just be that the establisments they visited paid a cursory glance at maximum to your ID (probably more of a 'does he have a license so I can claim I was fooled' check than anything else). Still, this is the only valid point in the entire blog post, so I may as well let Schneier have his one point.

The tinfoil-hat producing RFID point Schneier raises is not mentioned anywhere in Title II of the bill, and unfortunately he fails to quote or cite any sources for the link to specifications for embedding the chips in passports. The sentence that begins with "I expect" can be dismissed as an appeal to authority as Schneier's sensationalist points fail to establish his authority in this field.

Schneier next mentions how the bill does not allow judges, police, or even undercover police to place anything but their real addresses on the ID card. I'm unaware as to why judges and police have this right, but the undercover police point is ridiculous. Am I to believe that all undercover or incognito police agents obtain their identification by going to the DMV and saying "Hello I am a 30 year old man who for some reason has never applied for a driver's license"? It seems kind of far-fetched to me, but our legal system handles speedbumps like this by providing the ability to amend bills to correct mistakes.

Real ID does not prohibit states from issuing driver's licenses to immigrants. Sec. 202 (c) (C) (i) clearly states that a State can issue a temporary driver's license to persons who are not permanent residents of the country. This is already quite common and is in fact a hot issue in my locale since a good 1/4 or more of our plant are Japanese associates on temporary visas and are unable to receive full drivers' licenses. In fact, the temporary licenses that are provided by the State of Tennessee are not valid as photo IDs for some reason. This means the businessmen have to carry their passports as their legal ID, which is quite dangerous since a stolen passport is a serious thing. The Real ID bill would remove this nuisance and real threat to security by validating the temporary license issued by the state.

Real ID is not an unfunded mandate. Anyone who reads Sec. 205 can see that the Secretary of Transportation is in the business of handing out grants to those states who cannot afford to implement the requirement.

Next is my favorite paragraph for its usage of the word "wackiest". In my opinion, this establishes Schneier's position as a knee-jerk reaction in response to a quick skim of the bill. "Oh, this law is redundant because a previous law already defines it!" It seems Mr. Schneier missed Sec 207:
Section 7212 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-458) is repealed.I apologize but the best link to this bill I can find is a PDF. (http://www.usembassycanada.gov/content/can_usa/borderissues_irtpa2004.pdf) Look around page 190 for Section 7212. It does seem that the Real ID act is redundant in light of this law, but if you read it through it seems that the new law aims for a clearer definition of specific requirements and as an added bonus the new bill removes responsibility from the Department of Homeland Security and places the regulation upon the Department of Transportation. Most opponents of our terrorism measures would agree that the DoT is the rightful jurisdiction here and the DHS should only provide an advisory role at most here, so there's another win for the bill.

I think it stands that Real ID is not, in fact, an attempt to overthrow states' rights but an attempt to provide a standard for personal identification. The term "uniform ID" is never really mentioned in the bill and from my interpretation each state can design their license in any way so long as the minimum requirements of the bill are met. There is no doubt in my mind that licenses from each state will still be distinct from each other. The bill is concerned with removing fraud from the application process as much as it is concerned with the data the cards should contain.

At this point Schneier appeals to symbolism and common fears to establish the idea of government officials at every corner demanding you to "show your papers". I have never understood why peopel are so upset that they must show their ID to board a plane. This is a topic for another discussion but I do question the link between the establishment of standards of information on drivers' licenses and an increase the number of requests to present said license.

At this point Schneier's only remaining point is that citizens and organizations are wholly against a national ID, which the Real ID is not. This point is irrelevant to the discussion and I dare say seems close enough to a straw man to make me want to skip and sing about visiting a wizard.

The rest of the article is more of an emo crybaby session over the death of America than an attempt to make a point, so my discussion will end at this point.

In my opinion, Schneier was looking for a sensational article and through cherry-picking and a reliance on the laziness of the general public he wrote his sensational article. Several of his points seem to misinterpret the bill, and several more are either totally unrelated or completely opposite to what the bill states.

Be careful what you believe. They make these for people like you and me who like to believe that what we see is true.

[AlexMax]

After reading Atma's post above, reading the comments for this story on slashdot greaduates to the next level of funny (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/09/1624216&tid=172&tid=103&tid=219)

[Trevelyan_06]

Illinois meets all the requirments except for the machine readable part. I'm not even sure on that. We have something on the back that resembles some sort of barcode but I've never seen it used for anything.

I still love the people that seem to think they should be able to do whatever they want without having to provide any ID at all. Why should anyone take your word that you are in fact who you say you are? Don't like showing ID to get on a plane? Don't fly. Don't like showing an ID to get smokes or beer? Don't do those things. This country really does not have any sort of harsh ID requirments. The "show me your papers" comment would have gained him a better reaction if it was "Ihre papier Bitte" which is half-remembered German for "Your paper's please" I gathered that the author was attempting to say that America was becoming a fascist state where ID was required for everything. Last time I checked, many people can go weeks or even months without showing thier ID's or even carrying them with them. In a true fascist state, not having ID at all times means almost certain imprisonment and possible death. I don't think we're quite at that level yet.

[Cloral]

I believe California licenses already meet all the requirements. We have a nice magnetic strip on the back of ours. Nobody ever uses it though, they just look at the front. So even for states where that would be added, I doubt it would make any real difference.

[mikeron]

I believe California licenses already meet all the requirements. We have a nice magnetic strip on the back of ours. Nobody ever uses it though, they just look at the front. So even for states where that would be added, I doubt it would make any real difference.I've had my magnetic strip used once. I bought a plush seal at SeaWorld with a check, and they swiped my ID. It was a bit disconcerting, as I didn't know WTF they were doing.

[Paradox]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050510/ap_on_go_co/immigration_driver_s_licenses_4

It looks like some guys noticed...

[AtmaWeapon]

It's nice to know that even our Congressmen have better things to do than read the laws they are passing :)

[Pablo]

Eh. Yeah, some people want me to see this as a baby step toward fascism, but I don't mind it. If/When things get bad, I've got a one-way ticket to Argentina waiting to be used - that is, if I remember to bring my ID to the airport :)

Point is, it seems pretty minor and not as scary as some of you are trying to make it look to me. I don't think the government cares enough about me to spend much time invading my privacy, so why worry?

[Kairyu]

Point is, it seems pretty minor and not as scary as some of you are trying to make it look to me. I don't think the government cares enough about me to spend much time invading my privacy, so why worry?
Yeah, it's just ID's now, but just wait- it's all part of the MASTAR PLAN!!!!
Bush is building a giant space lazer powered by pollution and dead kittens! He plans to use it to declare himself the new Pope/Nazi/God/Emperor-for-Life! So keep your tinfoil hats on and don't listen to any news channels: stick to the information you find on websites!!

I'm just kidding, but I do get tired of conspiracy theories. Many of the ones I see here are actually realistic, but I've heard some seriously crazy stuff in real life.

[Blonde799]

Point is, it seems pretty minor and not as scary as some of you are trying to make it look to me. I don't think the government cares enough about me to spend much time invading my privacy, so why worry?
True. But the thing is, is that this is a stupid idea, on top of other stupid ideas, and that there's something bigger not being looked at that people should be worrying about. In my case this would seem minor, but it can evolve into a big problem that shouldn't have surfaced in the first place.

[AtmaWeapon]

I have undisputable proof that I am now being monitored by the government for my knowledge. Ever since I stumbled upon that document that detailed how the FREEMASONS are flying around on FREE ENERGY while Americans pay $$$$ at the pump I have been feeling their rays. I usually keep my tinfoil armor on but this weekend I tried a new invention: tinfoil wallpaper. I don't think it really worked because I forgot how to make FREE ENERGY and as proof that I was targeted by some kind of radiation mind-control beam the RFID in my badge for work STOPPED WORKING THIS WEEKEND. It was not erased from the computer, the chip died.

Now I wear a carefully crafted double-layer of aluminum and tin foil with precise spacing between them so as to avoid any feedback effects.