Order of Items given in a quest

[boram_c]

On Nightmare's "Tips to making a good quest", we have been discussing about what order to provide items to avoid making a quest too easy at the start.

What order would you provide all the items (swords, boomerangs, letter, etc.)…

…using the normal set of items?
…using the expanded set of items (e.g. hammer, hookshot, goddess' items)?

Please use the original names for each item ("Letter" instead of "Mushroom", "Candle" instead of "Lantern").

[SoStaci]

This is kinda simple for me...

Sword L1
Boomerang L1
Ladder
Candle L1
Shield L1
Sword L2
Boomerang L2
Arrow
Raft
Letter
Ring L1
Bow
Bait
Sword L3
Wand
Hookshot
Candle L2
Ring L2
Hammer
Boomerang L3
Sword L4
Ring L3
everything else

[JayeM]

I like to try a different order of items to give the quest a different flavor.

[Sephiroth]

I like to try a different order of items to give the quest a different flavor.
I'm pretty much random with mine. :)

[DarkFlameWolf]

Try giving the hookshot hella early and learn how to annoy players until late in the game because they can't get to many places with just a hookshot and no ladder! bwhahahaha

[Rakki]

Yeah, except the hookshot can freeze a heck of a lot of things, and even HURT things like Darknuts. That's why I'm holding off on giving it in my quest.

[Cloral]

Some items like the hammer can be really unbalancing if given out early in a quest. On the other hand, things like the hookshot and ladder only really let you reach new areas, so it doesn't matter too much when you give them out.

[boram_c]

I realized that a list of the order of items given in a quest might not be enough. In a quest, certain items can only be accessed by using certain other items. For instance, in the 2nd Quest of the Original Legend of Zelda, the Bow can only be reached if you have the Raft. Perhaps if one designed an "Item Order Tree" (analogous to a Tech Tree in Starcraft, Warcraft, and many other Real-time Strategy Games), one can better determine when to allow access to a particular item in a quest. In an Item Order Tree, the bottom most items are available at the beginning. Go up the "trunk" and you will not only find which items are next, but what item(s) are required to obtain it.

If one could provide such an Item Order Tree instead of an Item Order List, then people can get a better understanding of the mechanics of the quest.

[SoStaci]

I didn't include the bracelet because it's only really useful in quests with lots of pushing rocks (which i plan on doing)

[Cloral]

The tree is a good idea for some quests like the originals in which the player has some freedom to do things out of order. But many quests impose a strict order on the user, in which case the tree devloves to a list (after all, a list is just a tree where each node has only 1 child).

[boram_c]

The tree is a good idea for some quests like the originals in which the player has some freedom to do things out of order. But many quests impose a strict order on the user, in which case the tree devloves to a list (after all, a list is just a tree where each node has only 1 child).
Exactly. By planning a tree before making the quest, one can breathe a little more life and creativity into a quest, making it enjoyable the second or third time played.

[DarkFlameWolf]

which is why Isle of the Winds is so unique, I allowed freedom of movement through the quest between levels 2 thru 7. You can explore them in ANY order and get the items in ANY order. It all depended on your level of skill with what you have.

[Rakki]

Hmm, I need to play that... Er, anyway, my quest isn't going to be THAT open ended, but it will have an item tree rather than a list. There's going to be "side" temples besides the 8 places that house the triforce pieces(or whatever the heck it ends up as cause of storyline), though you're probably going to have to go to them eventually, and they'll have items that will help you get around in the dungeons, but you can pass them by for a while. Like, once you get whatever I put in Level 1, you can go to a side temple to try and get a new item which might help you get into a few rooms you couldn't previously in Level 1, or you can just go directly to Level 2 to get whatever's in there, which might also get you into an extra couple rooms in the side temple I mentioned previously. That would be a reason to pass it up for a little while. Though if you went and got the item in the side temple right away, it might help you get into some rooms in Level 2 you couldn't otherwise get into as well. Sound cool?

[Spudnickator]

Mine isn't either, it'll have lots of side dungeons, and a weird item structure! Like maby not gettin the sword at the beginning of the game. Hmm, i have an idea.

[Love For Fire]

Being creative with how and when you give items is key. Instead of giving the Boomerang in Level 1 or 2, wait a little while. I was once making a quest where the player doesn't have access to a sword until the end of the 3rd (out of 4) dungeon.

[boram_c]

On a quest I have been thinking up so far, Bombs are the first available item and are required to reach the Sword L1 (blast a wall, fight a lone Dodongo). Bombs, Bait, and a Shield L2 are available from the start once the player has enough money to buy them. The Candle L1 is in the 1st Dungeon and is required not only to complete it, but to access the next two dungeon. The Bow L1 and the Arrow L1 are both in the 2nd Dungeon, while the Bracelet L1 is in the 3rd. Either both the Bow and Arrow or the Bracelet is required to access the Sword L2. If the player has 6 heart containers, the Sword L2 can be collected.

[looney linklord]

Mine isn't either, it'll have lots of side dungeons, and a weird item structure! Like maby not gettin the sword at the beginning of the game. Hmm, i have an idea.

i'm making a quest like that! you start with the magic wand, and the wooden sword isn't even in the game! :evil:

[Rakki]

Doesn't necessarily mean NO sword is in the game, does it? Cause if there is no sword, I hope you weren't planning on putting Ganon in your quest. You can't beat him without using the sword. :p

[LinkMaster500]

This topic is an example of how important planning the quest is. Making certain items available too early in the game can make it too easy--especially the Hookshot and Fire Boomerang because of their ability to freeze and attack tough enemies like Darknuts, Wizzrobes, and Pols Voices. Other items that we have to be careful about are the rings, and potions because they enable Link to survive longer in dungeons.

Another issue relating to this topic is where you place heart containers and/or HC pieces. For instance, in one quest, I had about 10-11 heart containers before Level 3. In other quests, you could not get the white sword until you beat the Level 1 boss. We all notice that sword upgrades can really make some fights easier.

A suggestion of mine would probably be to take some of these very useful items and just make them very expensive to buy and/or difficult to find--so that the player will have to work for them (e.g. put something in a minidungeon that the player will have to complete to claim his prize).

If certain "quest difficulty-reducing items" (e.g. potions, rings, and boomerangs) are possible to get early, the designer might want to compensate by making dungeons bigger or more difficult by putting in harder enemies, more traps, and more fire-shooting statues.

[Revfan9]

I once made a modified version of the first quest to make it very hard. Everything is same as the original exept I took out all of the swords. You get the blue candle at the beginning and you don't get the woodn sword until just before you fight the final boss.

Item sequence for the last defiance:
Sword L1
Bombs (If an enemy drops)
Blue candle (50 rupees)
boomerang l1
Letter (40 r)
Magic container (100 rupees)
Red candle
Flippers
raft
whistle
Bracelet l1
Wand
Bracelet l2
short bow
arrows
silver arrows
Blue ring
Magic shield (160 r)
Magic sword
Red ring
Hammer
Gold Ring(500 r)
Golden Arrows(500 r)
Hookshot
Ladder
Super Bombs
Mirror Shield
Dins fire, Naryu's love, farore's wind(600 r each)
Master Sword
Essence of darkness (custom item)