RPG irritations

[DarkDragoonX]

So I've been wondering... what are those traits in RPGs that really bug you? YOu know, little things that just get under your skin when you're playing an RPG?

Mine include:


NPCs that join your party and become far weaker than they were. Likewise, I hate it when you have to fight one of your ex-party members and they mysteriously gain thousands of HP.

Big Number Syndrome (BNS) - This is just sloppiness on the part of the game designers. Your attacks don't need to do 5000 damage... that's just retarded. Games with smaller amounts of HP and damage are almost always much, much more refined and fine-tuned than games that use huge numbers. If I go play Dragon Warrior 3, I find that every level I gain, every stat point I get, every single goddamn point of HP is important, and I cherish it. Whereas in Final Fantasy 264, I think "Another 2k damage, Whoop-dee-doo."

Using text and voiceovers at the same time. I finish reading the text before the voice has even reached the thir word, and so when I play RPGs that use both text and voiceovers in conjunction, it's very irritating. "And then" "But he was" "We have to" "Evil chicken", etc, etc.

But Thou Must! A condition wherin you are presented with a choice you don't really have. For example in Dragon Warrior, after you rescue the princess, she'll ask you if you love her. If you say "No," she will repeat "But thou must!" for eternity, until you finally cave in and choose "Yes." I hate that. If I dont really have a choice, don't give me a false impression of choice to begin with!


So, what bugs YOU?

[Beldaran]

I agree with all of yours, for starters.

Others include:

Saying a game has 80 hours of gameplay, when in reality it has 1.5 hours of story, and 78.5 hours of levelling up so you can fight the next boss.

The old classic: You can hold 99 of every single item in the game, but you can't hold 100 potions and nothing else.

This one bugs me a lot: The king tells me to run an errand for him in some other kingdom, but he won't tell me where it is or how to get there. Instead, I have to talk to every single peon in his castle until some random chef or doorman blurts out the location of the other kingdom. Irritating.

Greedy innkeepers: "Thank you for saving our town from the evil dragon who burned us and raped our women for his own amusement! You are the greatest hero ever! By the way, it costs 50 gold to sleep here. Pay up or get out"

[Ibis, God of Magicks]

I Hate being forced to go to a certain place. Why give me this huge world map if I can't freely explore it.

I hate party members that leave the party after you've spent the past 25 hours leveling them up and fine tuning their skills. Specially if they keep their equipment.

I kinda don't like that there is always a save right before something big happens. You walking through a dungeon, you find a door and a save point. "Oh shit, I better prepare" kinda takes the surprise out of it.

I hate buying "Teh armor of doom" for 12456330 gil, only to find it in a dungeon's random treasure chest 15 minutes later.

[Cloral]

I hate RPGs that aren't difficult enough. This includes the majority of modern RPGs. You should have to think about what you are doing in order to make it through - otherwise, what's the point in playing it at all? If they are worried about it being too hard for the casual gamer, then they should have an easy mode for the pussies to play.

I also hate when RPG characters try to say something profound, since it usually comes out stupid and pointless. I also dislike characters that do things 'for justice' or because it is the right thing to do. We all know that nobody would travel the world, risking life and limb, just for an abstract concept like justice. This concept can work for superhero games and the like since they aren't heavily dependent on story. But in an RPG where story matters greatly, there needs to be a stronger reason for what the characters do.

[DarkDragoonX]

I hate RPGs that aren't difficult enough. This includes the majority of modern RPGs. You should have to think about what you are doing in order to make it through - otherwise, what's the point in playing it at all? If they are worried about it being too hard for the casual gamer, then they should have an easy mode for the pussies to play.

I heartily agree. That's probably the main reason for my growing distaste for the Final Fantasy franchise... the fact that they've become so easy, a dead man could finish them.



Specially if they keep their equipment.

Also known as "Die and burn in hell, Nash!"




I hate buying "Teh armor of doom" for 12456330 gil, only to find it in a dungeon's random treasure chest 15 minutes later.

Although it IS highly annoying, it doesn't bug me TOO much. After all, you generally don't have anything better to spend your cash on, since (this ties into what Cloral said) the game is usually so simple you can finish the whole thing without ever even glancing at the "Item" command.

And another one of my own: last-minute sidequests. Okay, so the giant meteor is hovering above the globe. Time to spend half of your total time playing on random sidequests! I really think sidequests should be spread over the course of the game, instead of the current method, which is to have none for the majority of the game, then a giant orgy or sidequests at the very end, when all you really want to do is finish the damn thing.

[Dart Zaidyer]

Some of my beefs include:

Bad Transrations. These days it doesn't really happen, but ten years ago it wasn't so uncommon to see the grammar disintegrate right at the crucial plot revelation.
Random battles. So here I am walking through a fairly deserted-looking dungeon, when all of the sudden comes the Giant Skull of DEATH from out of absolutely freakin' nowhere to tear my party a new one right before I can reach the save point. GRRRRR!!!
Bad allusions to Christianity. We get it Japan, you don't understand us at all. Now stop making us fight Evil Cyborg Jesus and his entourage of creepy-looking evil angels in the middle of the local Evil Catholic Church.
Villains whose greatest ambition is to declare themselves gods. Didn't they learn anything from the Evil Church? Being a god automatically makes you evil and destined for defeat. Unless you're the earth itself or some guy's wise ancestor, that is.
Narcissistic pretty-boy villains. Not really ambitious, but they're likely to give you a long lecture about some kind of existentialist crap before each battle.
Endings that drag on forever and ever and before you know it, a half hour has gone by since you beat the game and the credits haven't even started yet.

[*b*]

random battles. I love games like SO3, whwre you can avoid battles if you want (or can) when you don't want to battle, or if you want to battle the same enemy, you just leave the screen then re enter. that's not going to stop me from playing FF anymore, though

party members that HAVE to be in your party. especially if they suck. I like to be able to form my own parties, instead of having three characters present by defauly, and having seven other people to choose for my fourth member

party members that leave permanently, and take their equipment with them. you go through ten dungeons, gain a godly level, equip them with the best items, then they die from an arrow in the back. come ON

this one isn't so much as "OMG FUCK YOU I CAN'T BLIEVE YOU DID THAT TO ME!", but more of a "darnit" thing. not being able to chose the person you run around as. like in ToS, you can chose who you play as, and who is displayed when you're going places. games where the main character is set (like SO3 and GS) kinda bug me

[Kairyu]

Brain-dead heros. Okay, this is the only guy who can save the world. He can kill any monster. Kings honor him with huge parties. He can cast the ultimate forbidden spell, Ownageus 666 X^2. He has a magic sword that makes Excalibur look like a hedge trimmer. So why can't he figure out that the party member who keeps sneaking off to talk to strangers about evil sacrifices and destroying the world probably isn't on their side?

There's always one weapon for each player at one time. One. Yes, there are all those weapons you picked up earlier, but they are useless now. You don't need to think, what weapon should I give my Swordsman? You just give him the most expensive thing you've got. Blam, battle-ready warrior. My Mage? Expensive Staff. Blam, battle-ready warrior. Bard? Expensive musical instruments. Blam, instant character who's only slightly less useless. The only difference between one weapon and another is attack or magic power.
Sometimes you get a weapon that deals elemental damage, or has a 1 in 2 billion chance of randomly killing any enemy weak enough to die in one hit anyway, but those are just side benefits. The weapon is still better than previous items, and weaker than anything you don't yet own. Would a little choice or the occasional curve ball really kill someone?

Cliche characters presented as original works of art. It's even more annoying when people think they're badass or something. See also: almost every character in Tales of Symphonia.

I also hate artificial exploration limits. Okay, so it'd be suicide to explore the final dungeon at level 1. But why can't I just go ahead a little bit? Because there's an old man who won't let me pass without a dozen magic swords of power or his stolen underwear. Even though I could easily walk around him, or maybe throw him out of the way. You can only go to one place and do only one thing to continue the story. Until you get your vehicles. Then you can explore the whole world, and need to find the one person somewhere in it who will let you continue. After you get him the other dozen magic swords of power or a beer keg.

[bigjoe]

I hate when rpgs reuse the same story over and over.

"You're a rebel trying to take on the evil oppresive empire!"

"You must spend the entire game trying to destroy the giant dude clad in blackish blue!"

"You must fight someone who is trying to change the laws of space and time!"

For once, Id like to see an rpg that casts you AS the evil oppressive empire. Or makes you the eight foot tall scary guy. Or gives you the power to go back in time and kill people when they were babies!

[Cloral]

Kinda to combine what I said earlier with what Kairyu said, I hate when you get to a new town and there is some sort of local problem that you just have to go fix in order to progress. This is the stupidest story mechanism used but it cropps up a lot (see the entire game of Lufia 2 for a great example of this). If they want to have local issues that you can solve as a sidequest if you want, fine (in fact, good. As DarkDragoonX said, there aren't enough sidequests during the course of most RPGs). But they shouldn't be required, unless there is a specific reason for it.

[ShadowTiger]

This one bugs me a lot: The king tells me to run an errand for him in some other kingdom, but he won't tell me where it is or how to get there. Instead, I have to talk to every single peon in his castle until some random chef or doorman blurts out the location of the other kingdom. Irritating.Easily the single most irritating feature of anything I've ever done in a game. "Go get this." "Where is it?" "Go get this." " ... :sweat: "


I hate party members that leave the party after you've spent the past 25 hours leveling them up and fine tuning their skills. Specially if they keep their equipment.Sue, from Grandia. Don't bother with her. >_<


I kinda don't like that there is always a save right before something big happens. You walking through a dungeon, you find a door and a save point. "Oh shit, I better prepare" kinda takes the surprise out of it.Oh, this one, I like. XD Grandia was very nice with this one. I definitely appreciated it. Took a lot of the pressure off.


I hate buying "Teh armor of doom" for 12456330 gil, only to find it in a dungeon's random treasure chest 15 minutes later.Yup, Tales of Symphonia is ripe with this. >_<


Random battles. So here I am walking through a fairly deserted-looking dungeon, when all of the sudden comes the Giant Skull of DEATH from out of absolutely freakin' nowhere to tear my party a new one right before I can reach the save point. GRRRRR!!!That's why I've only played FF6. I stopped in the early part of FF7 too, simply because it took too long.


Yes, I hate it when there's a needless delay between areas. Why does it take so long for the screen to transition between map and battle scenes? :odd: It really doesn't have to. I'm not talking about loading in new graphics either. Sacrifice the "pretty" for the "GO, NOW!"

[mikeron]

Items without a hint of what they might do (I'm talking about like the difference between potion, salve, etc., not special items).

Spells that are useless later on. I prefer it when status effects can be used strategically later in the game.

[Yoshiman]

Status-Inducing Spells: Okay, why is it whenever you get something like Poison, Confuse, or Slow, it only works on minor enemies? Whenever you fight a boss and need it the most, it never works on them. I mean, who the heck slows a minor enemy?

Random Battles: I hate RPGs with toms of random battles. Breath of Fire 3 has alot in some areas. Sometimes, you just want to get on with the area, but everytime you take 3 steps, a monster attacks you. It's even more annoying when it's a really weak one and you can decimate them in one hit.

Boss Battles: It's not all bosses, it's just those ones with those really devastating attacks. Basically, they have ONE attack that can kill you in one hit, or comes close. And they love to use it when you're taking a turn to heal.

Kill the Revived: Maybe it's just me, but whenever I revive a party member and they have low HP, the enemy loves to kill that same person again before I have a chance to heal them, therefore wasting a Phoenix Down/Ammonia/Life Bottle/ect.

[DarkDragoonX]

Status-Inducing Spells: Okay, why is it whenever you get something like Poison, Confuse, or Slow, it only works on minor enemies? Whenever you fight a boss and need it the most, it never works on them. I mean, who the heck slows a minor enemy?


Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. The Dragon Warrior series is actually very nice about having bosses that have status weaknesses (the dragon guarding the princess in the original comes readily to mind. You can beat that dragon at an insanely low level if you put it to sleep).

[ShadowTiger]

Oh, I'd love such a thing. You're right, Yoshiman & DDX. I so very, very rarely actually see status effects or lowered defenses or stats take place on enemies when you put them in place. Casting the spell or using the item is actually a much, much worse idea than simply using your normal attack under normal conditions than taking the time to lower their stats. It's such a small difference. It's absolutely absurd. And so what if it "stacks." Sometimes it doesn't even stack at all, and the effort to reduce it to that stacked level provides the enemy more than enough of a chance to reduce your own hit points to nil.

[Dark Knight]

RPG's becoming too easy: This is a recent iritation. Apparently, we are making RPGs for mentaly challenged children or really stupid adults. Either way, it pisses me off. When the Max level you can reach is 99 and you beat the game at level 34(I did this with FFIX), there's something wrong. It is coming to the point where you don't really even need to think about what you're doing to beat the game. Square is getting real bad about this.

Godly Characters: This was one of the many bad things wrong with FFX. I was able to reach a godly status far too early in the game. Unless required by the storyline, I never had to use any command other then Attack. That was more then sufficient to obliterate any monster.

Status Changing Spells: This one pisses me off. Why is it that when a monster casts a Status Spell such as Doom, Death, Poison, Herpies, whatever, they have perfect effectivness and yet, when I cast the same spells, they never work and even if they do, it doesn't last long or it's on a feble monster that a gust of wind could kill.

"Destroying the World so I Can Rule It" Syndrome: Wtf is up with this? The main antagonist wants to destroy the world, so he could rule it? What's the god damn point? There'd be nothing left. He'd be all alone, no one to rule over. He'd rule nothing but ash and debri. Big fucking w00t!

"For Great Justice!" Syndrome: Ugh. A Hero saving the world because it's the Just thing to do? I get tired of this. Maybe the Hero could have some ambition. It's not like it'll kill the storyline. Perhaps the Hero could have alterior motives for saving the world? maybe he wants to rule it for himself or maybe he wants to simply save the world because HE WANTS to. Not some great justice. The Hero not only endanger his life, but the lives of up to 3 party members justt because it's just? Please, let's try to give our hero a real reason why he wants to defeat the ultimate evil bent on destroying the world, other then it being just.

I have more, but, I'm too lazy to post them at the moment.

[Blonde799]

What bugs me about RPGs? I'll tell you, at the cost of being redundant.

Lack of balance.
RPGs usually tend to be either very difficult or too easy. The former being say, Legaia Duel Saga, and the latter being Final Fantasy VII. Some RPGs also put too much emphasis on numerical pissing. In Legaia Duel Saga, 20,000 damage is a bee sting to the final boss. It wouldn't be so bad, had you not been forced to level up so much, cook like an expert chef and spam your mystic arts every chance you got. In Final Fantasy VII, the limit break system was too flexible, allowing players to get level 3 limits before your party even thinks about leaving Midgar. Not only that, the materia system was broken and the final boss was a punkass. With the right abilities, the weapons were pretty easy as well(there's a video floating around the net of someone beating emerald weapon in less than 2 minutes with two characters).

Recycled plotlines.
I can stand cliches, but damn, there are so many! One of your party members is the key to saving the world, and you go on a quest with them to do so. You save the world just because. There's a love story coming a MILE away. One of your friends will betray you. At this point, I'd rather have a steamy love triangle involving wookies than this stuff.

Hey, I haven't gotten my revenge yet!
I hate having strong characters peg my party, and then by the time I get strong enough to serve them a plate of whoop ass, they either befriend me, or get killed by SOMEONE ELSE!

Development baggage.
Gee, if you're gonna waste time to put a feature in the game, at least make it USEFUL!

Story time.
If you don't allow me to display all the the text in a message( or even worse, make pressing the skipping button close the damn window and/or kill the convo altogether!!!), YOU SHOULD GET HUNG!

I REFUSE to use another weapon!
Every character can only use one type of weapon. No one even tries to use another, even if it's only slightly different from the one they werre using.

Sorry baby, I have to leave you for another woman.
Why is it that attacks earned later overshadow the lesser ones? I'd really like something that makes use of the lesser attacks later in the game.

Status effects 101.
Did enemies get some kind of training to resist status effects? Most of the time, they're only useful on minor enemies that a simple breath from a hamster could kill.

I'm RICH BIATCH!
How can so few people even get to 1/4 of how rich your party is, but your party can get over 90,000 of whatever crazily named currency in a few hours by the end of the game? And where the HELL does 15,000 units of currency come from in a single battle? GOD!?

That's what bothers me.

[Master Ghaleon]

So I've been wondering... what are those traits in RPGs that really bug you? YOu know, little things that just get under your skin when you're playing an RPG?

Mine include:


NPCs that join your party and become far weaker than they were. Likewise, I hate it when you have to fight one of your ex-party members and they mysteriously gain thousands of HP.

Yea, also they only have like 2 spells but when you gotta fight them they have about 10 spells that will kick you in the balls.

[Monica]

I hate...erm...extra stuff. Like for example Inventing in SO3 and building a better ship in Kingdom Hearts, just annoying tasks that the player has to do that aren't even part of the story. Also obscure leveling up things like Talents in SO1. What was even the point of cooking and singing and writing and all those other things? I never could figure them out...

Also, is Collette a cliche'd character? O_O If there is another game with a cute little angel that joins your party and is the star of the game, tell me what the game is, because I've been waiting for that plot FOREVER!

[Carcer]

I personally hate the Heros that never say anything. Ever. Why? It makes me angry. The most you got out of Isaac in Golden Sun was the "yes" or "no" response, which, in most potentially story changing situations, when inputting the "wrong" answer, you got something like - "You don't mean that!" Try again. Or worse, "You don't mean that!" Another character decides.

Those RPGs that follow the tried, tested and eroded, cliched and boring, "collect the elemental crystal" escapades that takes to to get the fire crystal from the Desert/Volcano, the Earth one from the cave/mountain, plant/earth one from the forest/jungle, water one from the remote island, Lightning one from the metallic structure, Ice one from the Ice cave - which is on the same latitude as the volcano/desert, the wind one from the mountain peak, and so on. It is boring and repetitive, and at least in ToS, it gives you a reason before it gets boring.
I agree with the having to solve the town's calamity before being able to progress, and some of the villains... ugh. Big, fat and hairy, they'd do a better job as Homer Simpson that "taking over the world", leaving every open space for you to win right open.
World Maps. Yes, it's easier, but I hate the way that you can get across the whole world in an instant, ebing so huge. Yes, it's a representation, but I fell like I'm missing out. That's a good thing about Pokemon, I thought.
And, I suppose that's all my qualms for now, until I wake up at 3am and think of something else in a dream.

[Steezy20]

I dislike skill points in things that don't require skill; like fishing with a stick and string.

[Ibis, God of Magicks]

I'm RICH BIATCH!
How can so few people even get to 1/4 of how rich your party is, but your party can get over 90,000 of whatever crazily named currency in a few hours by the end of the game? And where the HELL does 15,000 units of currency come from in a single battle? GOD!?
That's what bothers me.
Here is something I never really got, where do the random enemies keep their gold?I mean, I know the goblins and monsters are gonna have some cash, but what about the others. Wtf are the Plantmonster "Naughty Tenticles" and "Vine snake" doing with wads of cash? Where do the skeletons keep their money?

[Blonde799]

Where do the skeletons keep their money?
In their gold teeth.:D

[DarkDragoonX]

I personally hate the Heros that never say anything. Ever. Why? It makes me angry.

In many cases, speechless characters are necessary because you are supposed to BE the character. If you are the character, then the suspension of disbelief is hindered if "you" (your character) say something that you don't feel "you" would in that situation. Thus, the only way to solve the problem is to:

A. Give the player multiple dialogue options with different consequences for each (PC RPGs do this frequently. Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.)

B. Not give the character any lines at all (the solution preferred for console RPGs).


I dislike skill points in things that don't require skill; like fishing with a stick and string.

That would be an excellent argument if it weren't for the fact that fishing does require skill. Knowing what type of line and pole to use (in your example, "stick and string"), what type of bait, how to move your line to attract the type of fish you want, and the right time to yank the line and hook the fish, are all skills that good fisherman must develop. Fishing IS partially luck, of that there is no doubt. Nonetheless, a skilled fisherman will always catch more fish than an unskilled fisherman.

[vegeta1215]

I'm currently in a "I hate random battle RPGs" mood right now: I like RPGs where you can see your enemies and choose to engage them or not. Whether you stand a chance against the bosses in games like that is all up to how you react to those enemies.

It's a shame I'm in such a mood though, cause I heard Skies of Arcadia is great, but that it is plagued by many many random battles.

[Kairyu]

My party enters a dungeon.
They meet a Zombie, a Demon Ghost, and an Evil Pebble From Hell.
Battle starts.

Zombie goes first, since obviously he's the fastest thing out there.
Enemy Zombie swings at Fighter.
Critical hit! 2 damage to Fighter, because he's a Fighter.

My Mage casts Instant Death.
It naturally hits nothing, does nothing, and costs my Mage all his remaining MP.

Fighter's turn. Fighter swings his sword at the Zombie.
Miss! Because we all know Zombies gots those 1337 dodgin' skills out tha' yin-yang.

Priest's turn. Priest casts Merciful Annihilation From God.
Zombie is instantly killed, because spells never miss! Except that the Demon Ghost and the Evil Pebble From Hell aren't affected. I guess my God isn't at as high a level as the Demon Ghost and the Evil Pebble From Hell. Darn. Remind me to change Religions.

Evil Pebble From Hell casts Earthquake Lv. 900. This is normal, since the pebble is earth-type and therefore obviously knows all earth spells.
My Fighter takes 2 damage again. My Mage takes 1,012 damage and dies instantly, because he's a Mage and can only wear bedsheets to protect himself. My Priest takes no damage. Because he's flying. Because he's wearing a magical pair of winged shoes. Which my Theif stole from a Killer Monkey. Which we found in an evil church. And my Thief, who is never in my party because he's useless, sits in an airship on the other side of the world sipping Strawberry Daquiris and still getting credit for helping save the world.

My Priest uses a Magic Revival Feather on Mage. Mage is revived. The Priest could have used his years of Clerical training to beg God's mercy upon my Mage, but this was a lot quicker and easier.

Demon Ghost calls for help.
That other Demon Ghost that was just sitting with my Thief drinking Strawberry Daquiris with him hears the first Demon Ghost's cry for help. But he decides he doesn't get paid enough and ignores him.

My Mage casts Flare on the Demon Ghost.
500 damage to the Demon Ghost. The Demon Ghost dies. I guess my Mage is stronger than my Priest's God. Maybe he should pray to the Mage instead.

My Priest sits there and does nothing. Since everyone's at full life, he can't actually do anything anyway.

The Evil Pebble From Hell casts Death.
Naturally, my entire party dies, I lose 1/2 my gold, get sent back to the airship on the other side of the planet, and lose the last hour and a half I spent leveling up.

[DarkDragoonX]

Yeah, I really hate random encounters, too. They were great back in the day, but they are clearly inferior to the encounter methods used in games like Star Ocean 3. Hell, even Wild Arms 3 (Wild Arms has always had a rather old-school playing style) let's you fill up a meter to avoid random encounters... I agree with you fully.

EDIT: Kairyu, that was the funniest thing I've read all week. You deserve a cookie.

[Cloral]

Funny you mention that, I just got WA3 and have been playing it recently. That migrant gauge is really nice since you can skip battles while solving a puzzle or you just don't feel like fighting. Story sucks, but at least that feature is nice.

I hate when characters do things that goes against their personality. We all know the badass who wouldn't want to go crusading with the other characters, but does anyway (i.e. Amarant in FF9 or Jet in WA3). This generally feels like a cop-out on the designers' part, since they obviously wanted to have that character join you but couldn't figure out a good excuse why.

I also don't like when the levels are mostly of the same type. Not every level should be a temple, or cave, or whatever may be the case. It also feels stupid when there are set 'levels' dotting the world. It makes it feel really fake. Good RPGs have challenges everywhere, including the towns when the storyline calls for it.

[vegeta1215]

I hate when characters do things that goes against their personality. We all know the badass who wouldn't want to go crusading with the other characters, but does anyway (i.e. Amarant in FF9 or Jet in WA3)

That is why Shadow (FFVI) is so cool. You have to pay him to be on your team! :D

[teirh]

Story time.
If you don't allow me to display all the the text in a message( or even worse, make pressing the skipping button close the damn window and/or kill the convo altogether!!!), YOU SHOULD GET HUNG!

A few minutes of snail-slow scrolling text is enough to bring on an insanity attack. I CAN READ! Nobody talks that slowly, especially when the are saying things like "we have precious little time before Daemon-Foo-Chaos Evil Cloak Man blows up the moon."

[DarkDragoonX]

It also feels stupid when there are set 'levels' dotting the world. It makes it feel really fake.

That's one of the problems I thought they addressed well in Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. There weren't ever any "levels," since the entire game was a dungeon... even when you reached a "town," you never really thought of it as a town, just as a short rest stop on your marathon climb upwards.

The story may not have been super-complicated, but they way the gameplay mechanics and the story blurred together into one cohesive experience made it one of the most believable RPGs I've played.

Anyway, yes, it bugs me when every town you come to just happens to have a highly dangerous cave/temple/forest just a short walk away.

[Carcer]

Anyway, yes, it bugs me when every town you come to just happens to have a highly dangerous cave/temple/forest just a short walk away.

...Not forgetting that something from that highly dangerous cave/temple/forest is causing a dreadful calamity in the settlement that only you can sort out, despite the town having at least five very muscly men who could do the job just as well as you.
Another thing: Tiny little barriers, like fences. I fail to see why a character cannot traverse a fence, or walk between two trees, pick their way through a bush or walk around a man in your way. If it is a role playing game, why make it so narrow that you can't walk over small barriers. Yes, it would make the map larger, but in the case of a town, surely walls would do the trick? In the case of a forest, at least some annoying bear could pop out once you reached the limit of the map to prevent you from going further.

About the characters never speaking thing - I agree that, being an RPG, you can't have the character saying things for you, but something more than nothing at all, like Bauldur's Gate and the Forgotten Realms games, as you said, by giving you large choices. I find it odd how Pokemon patronises itself when, in the Ship in Red/Blue, a sailor even asks you a question, and upon no response, he says "Ah, ze strong, silent type!" - For some reason that's always been in my memory of the game.

[Archibaldo]

For me, It's all about the story. Either,
A) It's predictable, Some incredibly powerful being is trying to bring back an ancient evil god or something and you are the only one who can stop it.
B) When the game is over that's it. There's nothing more to do, that story won't change.

[Dart Zaidyer]

Here's another one: Palette-swapped enemies. You just know that Slime or Bat is going to have a bigger brother somewhere in the world named Better Slime or Elder Bat or something. This gets even more ludicrous in games with time travel, because the monsters in the past are usually these recolored upgrades. What, did they get wimpier as time went on?

[Dechipher]

Carcer, the bear idea wouldn't work, mainly due to the fact that if you can destroy the Evil Zombie of Infinite Power, then you could probably handle North America's biggest black bear. No, rather, I think that a variety of devices could be used, such as really large pitfalls, steep hills, and thick foliage. Maybe burnable.
Then again, I think we all understand that a tree is a symbol for thick foliage. Just like a town is smaller on a larger map. It's all symbolistic.

[DarkDragoonX]

The original Baldur's Gate did an EXCELLENT job of allowing you to raom the world with as few constraints as possible. Every explorable area in the game had exits along every edge of the map, and when there WERE obstacles, they were always realistic... huge boulders, dense forest groves, deep rivers, etc. In Baldur's Gate (and for those of you who don't know, I'm talking about the PC game, not the crappy console hack-n'-slash), you never felt irrationally boxed-in.

In fact, every Infinity Engine game did a good job with that, and the Fallout games were excellent about it, too. Computer RPGs seem to be much more realistic about that kind of thing than console RPGs, really. I wonder why?

[Darth Marsden]

I'm currently in a "I hate random battle RPGs" mood right now: I like RPGs where you can see your enemies and choose to engage them or not. Whether you stand a chance against the bosses in games like that is all up to how you react to those enemies.

It's a shame I'm in such a mood though, cause I heard Skies of Arcadia is great, but that it is plagued by many many random battles.

Get the Gamecube Skies of Arcadia Legends, it pretty much slices the random encounter rate by half, or three-quarters. Or something. It's a lot less tedious, anyway.

My pet hates in RPGs?

Boss 'kill-all' attacks
Enemies that give you a fortune when defeated and yet clearly had nowhere to store it all
Games that insist upon using the Final Fantasy II style of levelling-up (IE: You have to attack your own team in an attempt to get their HP up)
Random battles
Those bloody 'YAY! WE WON!' poses that look gay
Towns consisting of around 8 houses
Bad dialogue
Cliched baddies

...and, finally...

THE COMPLETE LACK OF NEW GAME +. I LOVE New Game +! More games with New Game +!

[ShadowTiger]

Oh, indeed. I love "New Game +"'s ... Though they're a bit cheap. Obviously.


Towns consisting of around 8 housesY'know, I'll never quite understand that. o.o In ToS, Hima, consisted of ONE HOUSE. JUST.. ONE... HOUSE! :eek: And many, many, many more than one person to occupy that house. :sweat: Ugh... It always seems like there are more people than the town could support.


I also really hate those Boss-One-Hit-KO moves. They're so cheap. Kefka from FF6 had an attack (If you could call it that) which roughly reduced all your characters to 1 HP automatically. ... That ****.

[vegeta1215]

Get the Gamecube Skies of Arcadia Legends, it pretty much slices the random encounter rate by half, or three-quarters. Or something. It's a lot less tedious, anyway.

I meant to say Skies of Arcadia Legends for Gamecube, because I don't have a Dreamcast to play the original.

But have you played SOA Legends yourself? I read that the random encounter rate isn't much better than what it was for the original.

[DarkDragoonX]

I meant to say Skies of Arcadia Legends for Gamecube, because I dont' have a Dreamcast to play the original.

But have you played SOA Legends yourself? I read that the random encounter rate isn't any better than what it was for the original.

I've had both versions of the game, and it does seem to me that the random encounter rate has been cut down a bit for the Gamecube version, although it's possible I'm just hallucinating. Unfortunately, my gripe with Skies of Arcadia comes from the battles themselves... they go too damn slowly. When it takes your character 10 seconds to perform a normal attack, it drives me nuts.

[Monica]

I'm gonna have to quickly agree with the person who said the Japanese makeChristian-type stuff evil. ToS is an example but it's a great game, I don't hate it at all, but I'm thinking about Xenogears. If I understand, Fei is on his way to becoming the slayer of the Christian God, yes? Well the man in black told him to and he seemed evil, but does that mean that guy is evil or God is evil? And can someone tell me yes or no, is Fei gonna fight and kill God in this game? :(:(:(

We need to make an RPG that kills buhda if that's the case...;_;

[Blonde799]

I don't think the RPGs mentioned make God or christianity out to be evil, but the leaders of those in faith are out for their own selfish gain or those mentioned worship a false/evil god unknowingly(which they usually are), which conveys the message that the line between good and evil isn't always straight, and that even religion isn't safe from those distinctions.

[Darth Marsden]

I've had both versions of the game, and it does seem to me that the random encounter rate has been cut down a bit for the Gamecube version, although it's possible I'm just hallucinating. Unfortunately, my gripe with Skies of Arcadia comes from the battles themselves... they go too damn slowly. When it takes your character 10 seconds to perform a normal attack, it drives me nuts.

Yeah, the battles take entirely too long. When I was playing Final Fantasy I, I could literally just hold down the attack button and do nothing else. Wizzed through the battles and made them much more bareable.

Oh! Another major gripe of mine - Crappy endings. This goes double for Skies of Arcadia, which was the most cheese-infested thing I've ever been forced to sit through, and I've watched every single Arnold 'I was in Terminator, you know' Schwartzenegor movie.

If I've just spent god-knows-how-much of my life playing through a game, I want an ending that makes it all worthwhile. I want to be amazed. I don't want to see the Happy Little Tree elves suddenly appear and make everything better, nor do I wish to see the lead character suddenly realise "Hey - you know what? That babe who's been after me all through the game is actually kinda hot". I want to be reassured that my wasted month was, in fact well spent, and I want to be satisfied that my 30-40ish pounds were well spent. Failure is not acceptable.

[DarkFlameWolf]

so what exactly do you look in a ending darth, you never did specify in your post.

[Darth Marsden]

so what exactly do you look for in a ending Darth, you never did specify in your post.
Didn't I? Huh. I guess I just stated what I didn't look for.

What I look for in an ending is, smply put, something that makes you think "That was totally worth it". A well-written script, good voice-acting (if applicable), believable character reactions and a safisfying end to the story are what I, and really ANY, videogame player expect from a really great ending. We've invested time and money in these games and at the end we want to be reassured that it was all worthwhile. This applies twice as much to RPGs, as the story is, literally, the most important part of the game and it needs to end well.

[DarkFlameWolf]

Okay, in the rpg I am making in rm2k3, the ending depends on what you do over the course of the game. Do no sidequests and you'll get the middle of the road ending, not entirely satisfying, but it works. Do a bunch of good-based sidequests and you'll get the best ending and the most happy one. Do a bunch of evil-based sidequests and you'll get the evil ending and the most sad one. If you decided to do ALL sidequests, both good and evil, it'll come out with the good ending being the one you'll see since there are more good sidequests than evil. So it all depends on what extra stuff you want to do in the game and what aspect each sidequest you do is. For example, save a town from a dragon and you get some good points added to your ending score. Make an assassination attempt and it'll be an evil sidequest.

[Cloral]

I think the most important aspect in an ending is closure. The ending should resolve the story to a point where the player can walk away from it feeling satisfied. FF4 did a good job of this - it showed what happened to all the characters as a result of the events of the story. It wasn't flashy and didn't have any special effects, but it did what it needed to. And this puts it above many later endings in my book.

[Darth Marsden]

Okay, in the rpg I am making in rm2k3, the ending depends on what you do over the course of the game. Do no sidequests and you'll get the middle of the road ending, not entirely satisfying, but it works. Do a bunch of good-based sidequests and you'll get the best ending and the most happy one. Do a bunch of evil-based sidequests and you'll get the evil ending and the most sad one. If you decided to do ALL sidequests, both good and evil, it'll come out with the good ending being the one you'll see since there are more good sidequests than evil. So it all depends on what extra stuff you want to do in the game and what aspect each sidequest you do is. For example, save a town from a dragon and you get some good points added to your ending score. Make an assassination attempt and it'll be an evil sidequest.
Oo, evil sidequests. I guess we all know what I'll be doing. :evil grin:

I like the ideas you're throwing up, Wolf. It's certainly an interesting take, and I'm REALLY looking forward to it. The only thing I'm concerned about is that I'm going to want to see all 3 endings and I won't really want to play through the whole game three times in order to do so. Minor niggle. Sounds great otherwise.

With regards to closure Cloral, you don't tend to get that much in this sequel-mad empire we live in, which is why I never really mentioned it. It's a valid point and I wish more developers really would close off every loophole, but this then means that they have to create an all-new title, which the big-wigs are loath to do.

One way of having closure AND a sequel is to do it the Final Fantasy way. Another is to set your sequel in the far future, or just make a prequel. Although I'd rather companies take the plunge and make original titles, if they have to make sequels I wish they'd follow those ideas rather then use the old 'Oh dear, <Generic Evil Bad-Guy> has risen from the dead - let's get the old gang together and go kill him again' approach they seem to do. But I'm going off the point. Closure = Good.