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theplustwo
04-07-2005, 12:04 PM
There is a moment during the parade in the ending of Paper Mario where day turns to night and all the floats in the parade light up. At the same time, the colored circles on the various Toads’ heads start pulsating glowing light. When I was watching that sequence for the first time, it struck me how phenomenally weird the Mario series is. Sure, other games have “crazy” enemy designs or intentionally silly goals, but the Mario series strikes me as the weirdest game that isn’t trying to be weird.

Let’s start at the beginning. The first true game in the series is Super Mario Brothers. Even this game is spectacularly strange, the goals involve eating mushrooms and flowers so that you can grow larger and shoot fireballs at a giant turtle. Being the first game in the series, it provides quite a starting point of weirdness for the other games to build upon.

Super Mario Brothers 2 is also quite weird, but the entire game is a dream sequence, so that is somewhat understandable. However, it’s not as weird as some of the others. Most of the elements make sense. You get a heart, it adds to your life. You get a star, it makes you invincible (which was previously established in an earlier game in the series so it’s no longer nonsensical). But the game is pretty much considered non-canon so it doesn’t really count.

Super Mario Brothers 3 is the height of the series’ bizarre tendencies as far as I am concerned. Things are weird in the other games, but a lot of the elements in Mario 3 pretty much suffer from total logical disconnect. In Super Mario World, for example, you can get a feather as a power up. Feathers are associated with birds, which can fly. The feather gives you a cape, which is associated with flying as well. Guess what the cape does? It allows you to fly.

So there is at any rate a sort of prevailing logic. Not so in Mario 3. You get a leaf, which gives you a raccoon tail and ears, which allows you to fly. I suppose the leaf could be associated with the brief flying it bestows by the fact that leaves are often blown through the air by the wind, however, it was probably used because the designers of the game wanted a different method for the power up to come out of the “?” block. The mushroom rises up and then glides horizontally, the flower just stays on top of the block, and the star bounces. The leaf pops up out of the block, but I assume they wanted a way to make it easier for the player to get than if it just fell back down again, so they used a leaf so it could float slowly downward. However, the connection between raccoons and flying is beyond me. Perhaps the people at Nintendo were thinking of flying squirrels but got a little confused?

Then there’s the tanooki suit. Something strange about the tanooki suit is that while the leaf actually gives Mario ears and a tail, wearing a suit that includes the same elements has the same effect. However, the strangest thing about the tanooki suit is the statue ability. Apparently raccoons can turn into statues while we’re not looking. The weird thing too is that when in statue mode, Mario is no longer wearing the suit and suddenly has a cane of somaria like staff.

Some research shows that the name “tanooki” is actually derived from the Japanese creature tanuki. However, these animals do not have ringed tails, they can’t fly, and as far as I can tell they can’t turn into statues.

Most of the elements in the games that follow Mario 3 make more sense. Long established standards like mushrooms making you bigger and flowers giving you fire power are still present, but the new power ups usually make some sense. A hat with wings lets you fly, turning into metal makes you heavier, turning invisible allows you to walk through walls, and so on.

I think the thing is that if something comes close to making sense, but doesn’t, your brain kind of pukes while trying to “fix” it. If you were to make a game about a lava surfing robot penguin on mars, your brain would just accept it as being silly and that would be that. But when you have a normal looking dude running around you kind of accept it as being possible, so that when strange things start happening the weirdness tends to jump out at you.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be playing Super Mario Advance 4.

Saffith
04-07-2005, 12:26 PM
A lot of it comes from Japanese mythology. Tanukis and other animals were said to use leaves to transform. I don't know what raccoon Mario is called in Japanese, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were something else. Tanukis are also called raccoon dogs, because they look like large raccoons (http://www1.plala.or.jp/oshima/tanuki.gif), which I suspsect is where raccoon Mario comes from.

DarkFlameWolf
04-07-2005, 12:59 PM
Its all about the shrooms man! Mario is on this one big acid trip! lol

Orion
04-07-2005, 01:30 PM
I've been playing through all the old school Mario games (SMB-SMW) and I realize how much I actually miss the whole more-or-less linear design, and using mushrooms to get bigger, capes to fly, flowers for fireballs, and whatnot. I hope that SM128 incorperates a lot of the old-school elements. It would make a lot of fans happy.

SixTen
04-07-2005, 01:35 PM
You think that Mario might have some allusions to drugs? It wouldn't be the first, I mean our parents grew up with a game where you go around eating little pills in a darkened room that gave you magical power to eat ghosts. And sometimes you would eat the fruit because you got hungry.

Yes, the Mario series is pretty weird if you think about it. I mean, how many times does this princess have to be captured before they take some better precautionary measures? She might even have a thing going on with Bowser. I mean she had you running around to every damn castle in the land looking for her. I don't know why Mario is so obsessed with a girl who is obviously sleeping around with every giant Man-Turtle she finds.

To each his own I guess.

I can understand connections with elements of the game to Japanese mythology. But I don't see where they got the idea of a flower shooting fireballs. (Is it the actual flower that shoots the fireballs, or does it just give Mario the ability to shoot them from his hands Street Fighter style?)

theplustwo
04-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Is it the actual flower that shoots the fireballs, or does it just give Mario the ability to shoot them from his hands Street Fighter style?Well I think it origionally was supposed to be that Mario was shooting the fireballs, but in Paper Mario the fire flower shoots the fire out.

Carcer
04-07-2005, 02:41 PM
Well I think it origionally was supposed to be that Mario was shooting the fireballs, but in Paper Mario the fire flower shoots the fire out.
That was something that annoyed me a lot when I played it. I filled up my whole inventory except for two Mushrooms in the hopes that Mario's dungarees would go white and his attack's would change. (I don't read the instruction booklets.)
So I was severly disapointed when it was the flower. Even if it had only made mario shoot a few for a turn, it would have been fine. The flower has never shot it, so why?

I like the way that the series has made itself it's own twisted logic. You know, one Mushroom and you're big, then flowers come out, etc. Stars for invincibility, leaf for flying and racoon-ness, and so on. So why did Mario have a cape in one game?

vegeta1215
04-07-2005, 02:41 PM
Well I think it origionally was supposed to be that Mario was shooting the fireballs, but in Paper Mario the fire flower shoots the fire out.

That's what happened in the Super Mario Bros cartoons too. Holding the Fire Flower would turn Mario into Fiery Mario, and when he held out the Fire Flower, he would shoot fire balls out of it.

In response to the thread as a whole, yeah, the Mario series is pretty weird.

SixTen
04-07-2005, 02:49 PM
I think he had a cape to give him more of a flying superhero type look. Made more sense than a raccoon anyway.

theplustwo
04-07-2005, 03:30 PM
I think he had a cape to give him more of a flying superhero type look. Made more sense than a raccoon anyway.Yeah, that's what I meant when I said capes are associated with flying.

Orion
04-07-2005, 05:36 PM
I think it's the whole Super thing. It was the Super Nintendo, and Super Mario World, thus, the cape made him like Superman.

Archibaldo
04-07-2005, 09:30 PM
The only thing I didn't understand was why were the enemies turtles?

AtmaWeapon
04-07-2005, 09:52 PM
Additionally, there are few common themes between the games in the series. Mushrooms and Fire Flowers were consistent, but look at the tertiary powerups. No Mario game has had the same powerups other than Mushrooms, Fire Flowers, and Starmen. Whatever happened to the Hammer Bros. suit? The Frog suit? And what about the enemies, who display drastic changes in their behavior from game to game? Goombas learned how to fly between SMB and SMB3. In SMW goombas weren't a one-stomp kill anymore, and in fact were a little more like bob-ombs than anything else. What was up with the Chucks (football-clad guys)? The more I look at these games, the less sense they start to make.

Recent games have made it even harder to figure out what is going on. Now some Koopas and Goombas are good and want to help Mario. Sometimes Bowser is on Mario's side.

I think maybe what has made the series so popular is that it just doesn't make much sense.

Archibaldo
04-07-2005, 10:20 PM
Of course it doesn't make sense. It's about a plumber who can travel through pipes.

Cloral
04-08-2005, 03:17 AM
I think its great because it realizes that it doesn't have to make a lot of sense. If something makes the game more fun, then go ahead and do it.

MottZilla
04-08-2005, 03:27 AM
Super Mario Bros. 3 was the peak of all that is good in gaming. No one cares if it makes sense, the game kicked total ass. And to this very day it's still one of the best games ever.

Carcer
04-08-2005, 04:24 AM
Exactly, and, just think about it. If games are there to get away from reality, which is why I so hate Animal Corssing, then surely they have to be weird? It makes it more exiting and strange, so you carry on playing. When have most games been normal? Mario, Sonic the Hedgehog, Rayman, Lara Croft, (No matter how much silicone you put in, your tits will never be triangular.)
The list goes on. Long live the weird insanity... just think what would happen if Tim Burton made a video game.

theplustwo
04-08-2005, 11:23 PM
Super Mario Bros. 3 was the peak of all that is good in gaming. No one cares if it makes sense, the game kicked total ass. And to this very day it's still one of the best games ever.Don't get me wrong, I like it's weirdness. And I like that it doesn't make sense in a way that seems so breezy and effortless that you don't even realize when you are playing it how strange it actually is.

punkonjunk1024
04-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Super mario allstars, and super mario RPG are all any gamer needs to experience the best of the best.
Super mario RPG was excellent, because it took all this strangeness, and tried to make it look completely casual. This struck me the first time I played mario games, and I love it. If it made sense, would it still be fun?

MottZilla
04-10-2005, 01:47 AM
Ofcourse not. Non-sense makes everything better. =) Only in fantasy can you touch a mushroom and double in size, or a flower and then shoot fireballs that bounce off the ground. Only then can you step on some weird 2 legged no arms creature and have it smoosh under you. Some games are just better making no sense at all, but acting like it makes perfect sense.