Older model PC Monitor/startup problems...

[punkonjunk1024]

I have a problem with a computer I just got from a friend of mine... I can give you any information you need, but I think its a basic problem I should no how to fix, and it shouldn't be system specific. The video input is embedded into the mother board, so I would assume that means that theres something wrong with that. the monitor I have works with my other desktop. But when plugged into this computer, it recieves no signal. the harddrive makes the furious clicking and spinning sounds it always makes at startup, but the monitor gets no signal at all. I tried plugging an extra videocard I had lying around into an extra slot, but the same problem persisted. can anyone tell me what might be wrong? it would be much appreciated. I replaced the shitty 16 mb ram chips with teh 32's I had spare, but it doesn't seem like that could cause any kind of startup problem like this.
Any help would be much appreciated.

[Eckels]

ok, it's possible that the onboard video out was de-activated so that the previous owner could use a video card with it. look for a jumper that says something about the video. see if you can change the jumper to activate the video port.

since the other video card doesnt work either, it's more likely that the video port is bad but hasn't been deactivated. either way, there should be a jumper. that jumper is the key.

Also -(I'm assuming these are 16-bit cards) are there any other cards plugged in? if so, take them out. you may have an irq conflict.

[punkonjunk1024]

Call me stupid, but where would the jumper be? I'll look, and probobly find it, but if I can't, I'd like to come back up. I would assume right by the on board port for the monitor. Anyhow, I'll check it out when I get off. thanks much.
Oh, the jumper will only have 2, whats the right word, options? on, and off, I hope.

[Eckels]

dont assume anything. jumpers can be anywhere on the board. i used to build and repair computers in the days of 386es and 486es. I saw hundreds of different boards, and almost every board was different, with different jumper layouts. Sometimes you get lucky and they print the jumper locations on the actual motherboard. and sometimes you're fucked if you don't have a manual.

you might get lucky if you can find some sort of model number on the board, and you might be able to look up the manual online. but if it was a production pc, by like IBM, or Packard Bell, or Gateway, you'll probably be out of luck.

btw, does the board have any jumpers at all? (if it's got an on-board video, it should) if not, then it's entirely a cmos setting, and you might be screwed. you might have to reset the cmos if you can figure out how.

oh, also- can you take a picture of the board? something with rather good detail?

[punkonjunk1024]

t.
I can try for a pic in just a sec...
As for the computer, its a compaq presario. Spelled correctly, on the computer.
There were two sets of jumpers that actually had the little sheaths, and a few completely lacking. The two with them, relatively close to the on board videocard thing were like this -

. .

. . . . .
I messed around with the ". ." one, trying all of my video cards with it on, with it off, and a little bit with the longer one, but the guess and check there will take forever. I did just discover my sister thought it would be funny to turn the power on and off some number of repeated times, she told me this when she found out the computer wasn't working... Could that possably burn out the videocard, or anything else vitally important?
As for resetting the CMOS... isn't that a simple jumper thing, too?
Anyhow, off to take picture, either with the good camera, if it's working... or the shite camera, if the not suck one isn't working...

EDIT:
Pics! Tell me if these are OK, if not, I'll bring the thing upstairs and turn it so you can actually see inside it. the light wasn't great, I took them kinda fast. dunno if it'll satisfy, or not. And I don't know if I should have removed that pole to expose all of the motherboard, but would there be jumpers burried in there?

Anyhow -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/punkonjunk/Comp003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/punkonjunk/Comp001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/punkonjunk/Comp002.jpg

And I apologize if I'm unclear. I basically know what I'm talking about, I took an A+ computer cert cllass freshman year, and passed the test. unfortunately, it's a bit rusty. I still have the A+ textbook on CD somewhere, though, and that thing rocks.

[Eckels]

it's junk. if you told me from the start that it was a compaq i would have told you to trash it.

and it's not because i have a bias against compaq. but I'm positive they dont have any way to turn the video off via jumper. Compaqs were one of the biggest nightmares to work on because none of their motherboards were built intuitively. they're basically built simply to fit it in the box. If it has any sort of jumper to shut off the video card, i'd be astounded. They were simply built as disposeable machines.

I doubt you'll find any way to fix it, unless the video output just suddenly starts working again. but i wouldnt hold my breath.

[punkonjunk1024]

That fucking sucks. Thanks for all the help, anyhow... The shit computer has onboard USB devices, is there any way at all I can attach those to my mother board on my other PC? I wanted to use that sheerly for the USB. Thats basically why I was trying to get it working. and its not a card.... maybe soldier it onto the other one... Or something. I don't think thats possable.
I'm really irritated.

On topic, can I just do something to use a videocard? could I just scrape the thing off, maybe that would dissable it?

Either way, thanks for everything.

[ZTC]

sonofa--

If I'm correct, I have 3 of those at home... :odd:

gimme some time to dig one of those up, I had a hell of a time to get 2 of them working;
try swapping out the HDD for another one....
gimme some time and I'll be able to look into this further...

[Eckels]

if all you want is the usb ports, then buy a usb card, they're very cheap.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-124-008&depa=0

much easier than messing with that old pos.

[g.iaroos]

plus you're never gonna be able to soulder them on the other motherboard ... I don't know where you got this idea but all you'll end up doing is scrap two motherboards (well one, considering Compaq touched the other one)

[AtmaWeapon]

First off, I agree with Eckels 100%. I have never seen a Presario that was user-serviceable, other than installing Compaq-blessed parts bought for a high premium from Compaq themselves. Your best option is to purchase a cheap USB PCI card.

However, there is an important lesson here. A lot of people ask me how I'm so good at troubleshooting. There's really only one secret to it and it's not that big. I made fun of the scientific method in school and thought it was a really big joke, but there is no other way to troubleshoot a PC. First, you undo any changes you made and get the PC into the state it was in when it last worked (if this fixed it, good show!). Next, you identify a part you think is malfunctioning, isolate it, replace it with a known good spare, and if that doesn't fix it move to another target until the PC works.

I only bring it up because while the video is an obvious failure point you have failed to acknowledge and test three items of note. I took the jerkoff "A+ cert" course in school, too, and if you even halfway paid attention you would have recognized you are not following the proper troubleshooting methods.

First, you received this computer from a friend. It seems silly to ask, but did the PC work when the friend gave you this "gift"? Did you test it as it came to you before making changes? If you can answer "yes" at this point, then it is obvious that some of your tinkering has caused the failure. If it was not working, there you go. Punch your friend in return for the donation.

Second, you replaced the RAM. Once again, one of the few things I picked up from the A+ course was that RAM is a very frequent culprit. Experience in IT has taught me even more that bad or incompatible RAM can cause some very odd problems that are hard to track. Since the hard drive grinds, I'd assume the PC is booting normally, which could lull you into tossing out RAM as the culprit. However, on a system with integrated video, a portion of the RAM is reserved for the video. Incompatible or bad RAM could have the unwanted side effect of rendering the video system inoperable without other signs of failure. Just because RAM fits in the slot doesn't mean it's compatible. You could have replaced PC100 with PC133, or swapped in some ECC. Perhaps your 32MB sticks are too high a density for the motherboard to handle? There's no way for me to tell, but in the interests of proper troubleshooting I say replace the original RAM.

Finally, there is the issue of your monitor. This is more of an issue with older monitors, but it is of note. If the video was in a resolution or refresh rate that your monitor does not support, odd things can happen. Some (good) monitors report "Unsupported mode", others display garbage, and others display nothing at all. Try another monitor, preferably the one your friend used with that PC.

Reset these three variables and see if that doesn't fix anything. It is probably bad integrated video, but I hate to see someone come to a conclusion without properly testing everything. For all this trouble, though, note that you can pick up a 2-port USB 2 card for about $20 if you just need USB. You'll probably spend $20 worth of effort trying to get that Presario working, then $50 worth of cursing about how sucky it is, so I say it's a better deal.

[punkonjunk1024]

lol, thanks atma.
It did work when I got it, however, I was testing on this monitor, a much, much nicer one. I should probobly do that. Yes, I did try putting the original ram back in. Ram can be a crazy bitch quite often. Eckles links to USB is teh sweet, and I'll be buying that. However, how do I get the drivers for it, being that that PC is not on the internet?
And TC, I'd still appreciate input, if I can get it working, that'd be cool. I'd rather not have to toss ANOTHER computer and just take shit outta it. Becuase of that, I have some odd stack of maybe 100 spare computer parts, including 12 harddrives that may or may not work. I've had trouble with them, but setting up a beast of a computer with 12 harddrives is not yet my goal, I'm happy with 2 right now. ;)
But thanks for all the help. we'll see what happens.