AtmaWeapon
12-01-2004, 03:01 AM
I think there was another Star Ocean thread a few months ago but I felt like posting another so sue me.
First, I will clear a few things up to try to prove I'm not just hating this game because of my rampant bias against PS2.
I also hate Square as of late, but Enix I have no beef with and I always hope upon release that a SquareEnix game has more Enix and less Square.
I bought this game with the highest of expectations. While looking through a Tales of Symphonia walkthrough, I read a statement that claimed if I liked ToS, then I'd LOVE Star Ocean. So I bit.
My heavy-handed bias against all things not Nintendo is well known at AGN. Heck, I created the script to the "Nintendo Gaming: Put your balls in my mouth, jerk" commercials. That said, I'd like to point out that I enjoyed ToS so much that I wanted to play anything else that was similar. I bought a Playstation 2 for this game. That's how much I expected it to rock.
That's clear now. I expected this game to be good enough to remove my bias and give PS2 a chance. Now for the disappointing review.
The only real way I can review this game in some respects is to compare it to previous RPGs, most notably ToS since they are similar in style.
There's a few small spoilers, but if you're 50% into the game you're probably farther than me so no worries.
Graphics
The graphics of the game aren't necessarily breathtaking, but they are pretty good. Character models are well done, and for the most part facial expressions are good. There's a good deal of clipping issues, but for some reason this is a problem that plagues all modern games so I'll ignore it.
Story
To be quite honest, I haven't played much of the game. I'm probably about 25% through. However, I will say that if you can make it through the first few major events, the story starts to get a lot better. When I stopped, it was getting very interesting. Story is very important to an RPG in my mind, so I have no complaints on the story.
Play Control
To me, playing a good game doesn't feel like playing a game, it feels more like you are reading a book. I shouldn't think to myself "push this button now" but "perform this move now". Star Ocean fails this critical test.
I'll divide the gameplay into the two different portions of play: overworld and battle.
Overworld
For some reason, most PS2 games I play treat the analog stick like a glorified d-pad. You still get only 8 directions, but it's easier to do diagonal. Star Ocean is no exception. I spent the first 45 minutes of the game stumbling everywhere I went, running into walls, attempting to line up with people to properly speak with them, and so on. What's worse, the developers forgot the analog portion of the stick, so here's how the stick works:
0-49% tilt: player faces closest direction on an 8-direction compass
50-100% tilt: player runs full speed in direction indicated (walking is specified by holding a button)
This is ridiculous. I fully expect that with an analog stick I should move slower if I tilt less; the walk button should not be necessary at all.
The camera control is a little awkward at times, but a lot of games are much much worse so I don't really care. The map that is provided is a big help for when the camera is being a pain, so really there's no excuse to hate the camera.
So after a teething period with the controls, there's really no complaints about the overworld.
Battle
The battles alone are enough to make me dislike this game. It's similar to ToS, but I think ToS did it better. You have weak and strong moves, and the particular move you do is influenced by your range from the enemy. Special moves can be performed by holding one of the attack buttons rather than tapping it.
The hold method of executing special moves proves to be rather annoying compared to ToS's direction+button method. The delay is a little too short in my opinion, and I often find myself accidentally wasting TP and getting owned by an enemy because I released the button too late at the end of a combo.
I have found that the battle system is so far very formulaic. I have a combo I use against air enemies and a combo I use against ground enemies. Sometimes I don't use the combo on weaker enemies just for variety, but these combos give the most damage and render the enemy immoble while I am executing them, so they are the best bet. I had a favorite combo in ToS, but at any time there were 6-10 combos at my availability, and there were many situations where the combos I had were no good and I had to find a new strategy. Not in Star Ocean; I just knock the dude up in the air, hit him up in the air again, nail him on the way down, and sometimes hit with a final blow. Wait for him to get up and repeat. It's the same for ground and air enemies, but the starting move is different for both. *yawn*.
Challenge
There's more than one way a game can be challenging. The game can have puzzles that take a while to figure out, enemies that require quick reflexes to react to their patterns, or enemies that are much more powerful than you. RPGs usually have a combination of all 3, but Star Ocean relies heavily on the last (and cheapest) method of challenge.
The challenge of an RPG is usually under the control of the user. You can spend hours on the level treadmill and tear through bosses without breaking a sweat or you can ignore levelling for a challenge. This is more important to a turn-based RPG since at a given level you can deal X damage per turn and will take Y damage per turn, so increasing your attack and raising your defense has a drastic effect on the challenge. However, Star Ocean is not turn-based, and the challenge of the battle depends more on the enemy than on your level (though the level is still important.)
Case in point: Near Aquios, in Irisa Fields, there's an enemy called L16 Ravitch that can cast a spell called Efreet. The spell has a large range and does significant damage. When I first encountered these enemies I always ran, because invariably they'd cast Efreet as a first attack and kill at least one of my party members. 3 or 4 major events later, I was strong enough to withstand Efreet, but it still took 30 seconds or so of concentrated attacks to bring one of these things down.
Next example is the Shrine of Kadaan. The enemies in here were strong enough that I believe the designers intended you to play the level like Metal Gear Solid and avoid all the enemies as opposed to fighting them. However, if you don't get the Anti-Stone Amulet from an optional battle and equip it, you will not defeat the end boss, 4 Vendeeni Soldiers that can petrify with one shot.
So far, the game relies on cruddy play control and overly powerful enemies for its challenge. This is frustrating and detracts greatly from the game.
AI
Usually AI isn't a big deal in an RPG, but in this style of RPG it is. You can only control one character at a time in battle; the other two act on their own will. In ToS you had a large degree of control over the AI, though a few of the characters seemed to have a faulty AI that never used their better moves. In both games, you can swap control to a different character to force them to perform a specific tactic. ToS accomplished this by making you send an order to the character that they obeyed unless they were attacked or in the process of an attack. Star Ocean accomplishes this by making you fully switch control to the other character. There's not much of a difference; both methods have disadvantages and both methods provide frustration 30% of the time.
However, the AI in Star Ocean is about as bad as the Kirby AI in SSB:M. I had to take Cliff's powerful moves away from him because he would deplete all of his TP and/or HP in a single battle performing the same move over and over again, missing half the time. Nel makes a better healer than fighter as far as I'm concerned, but if I tell her to do anything but fight she spends all her time standing on the other side of the battlefield staring at the sky. In fact, if you tell the computer AI to do anything but attack, it tends to spend a lot of time running and avoiding the enemy as opposed to healing or casting spells as you commanded it to. Some of my most frustrating boss battles have involved watching a character stand still for 45 seconds while enemies approach and then getting slaughtered without moving.
It wouldn't be as bad if guarding were simple. To guard an attack, you have to stand still long enough for your fury gauge to fill up, which takes about 2.25 seconds. In this time frame, most attacks will have already landed. ToS had a guard button that, when used skillfully, could reduce the damage you take. Star Ocean tried to introduce a shield that nullifies all damage, but the implementation is useless.
Sadly, the enemy AI does not suffer from the same level of defects that the player AI has. Enemies are capable of performing long chains of combos, and if the right moves are coordinated your character can easily lose 75% or more of their HP while you are helpless to do anything to stop it. Sometimes I've been stuck in juggle chains so long that I would have had time to pour a coke before I recovered. Almost all of my deaths so far have been the result of either 3 enemies executing a ranged move simultaneously, an enemy with a good juggle combo, or a few enemies coordinating a juggle combo. While I applaud the work that went into planning these attacks, I wish that much work had gone into the player AI. Even when you're strong enough to take the enemies, it's really aggravating to get stuck in a combo that takes 30-45 seconds to complete. The only real option you have is to switch to other characters, but if it's a ranged combo it's likely they're stuck in it as well.
Fun
I'm going to finish this game one day. I started it in the fashion I've done recently, with no walkthrough or external help. However, the game is huge to a degree that makes me want to love it so badly. I had to purchase a strategy guide, and the blasted thing is over 250 pages to cover everything in a small font. I'm going to start over using this strategy guide in the hopes that I've been doing something wrong. About 5 of my 20 hours or so were spent walking in circles in a few confusing places, so I can at least save myself that frustration if I already have the map. Also, I'll be sure not to miss any items that could help me. But I'm not expecting to get any fun out of the game.
Character Actions
I will say that Fayt, the main character, is following in the footsteps of many a Square hero; that is, questionably heterosexual. True to Square's high standards since FF VII, each female character model was painstakingly crafted to be as easy on the eyes as possible. They are done in a somewhat anime style, but still manage to look pretty good. The conflict comes from the fact that Fayt seems oblivious to this and somewhat disinterested in general. He hangs out with Sophia all the time if I'm to believe the story, yet he totally ignores her. I'll walk through the first few minutes of the game as I remember them and compare my reactions to Fayt's reactions.
First, the situation's a little complicated because Sophia isn't really Fayt's "girlfriend", but it's obvious she wants to be. My examples will involve my reactions to my girlfriend behaving in the same way, so maybe it would be different but I doubt it.
Sophia is pretty pissed when we first see her. It seems Fayt was supposed to chill on the beach with her, but instead chose to play in the fight simulator instead. Hmm... so I'm an 18-year-old dude and I have a choice with going to the beach with a hot bikini-clad girlfriend or playing "hack the monsters into bits". That is not a choice. I don't think there are any drugs that would make that a tough decistion. Girl on beach wins in my book, Fayt begs to differ.
Fayt does manage to calm Sophia down and makes up with her by promising to go for a walk with her, so he's not entirely stupid. But then Sophia finishes changing. I think it's pretty clear that if your female friend takes half an hour to change just to go on a walk, and her choice of outfit is a spaghetti-string shirt and sprayed-on-tight jeans with the button undone it's a clear sign that she wants you to be more than just her friend. I know if my girlfriend came out of the hotel room dressed like that I'd probably stutter my way through trying to convince her we needed to rest in the room for a while before taking the walk. I guess I'm just a lecherous bastard because Fayt doesn't even notice.
The last flag that Fayt misses occurs in a scripted action on the beach. Some chick walks up to him and starts hitting on Fayt, and he seems kind of confused about what's going on. Choose to tell the loose lady that Sophia is your girlfriend, and here's what the dialog's like:
girl: Oh, that's too bad. It's not fair, all the good guys are taken.
Fayt: Yeah, go away you scantily-clad temptress!
Sophia: I... I... Fa.... I... Did you say.... Oh....
Fayt: I'm glad she's gone, listen, I was just joking, Sophia
Sophia: Joking... about what? I... Oh Fayt... Did you--
Fayt: Yeah, imagine me, your boyfriend? That'd be SO weird! Let's go back inside!
Sophia: Oh... :( :( :( yeah.... funny....
FAYT YOU FOOL! He had two strikes against him, enough to make most less devoted girls scorn him for life, but this was the perfect opportunity to scoop up Sophia in a way that would make any woman jealous, and he's too busy thinking of the fight simulator to see that Sophia would still take him. You don't have to be a successful pimp to see she wants him bad. Why has Square hated the idea of romance in their games since FF3?
Misc.
There's a lot of unlockables, and the trophies are a really cool feature. I really want to love this game. If you look at all the features: the crafting, the exploration, the puzzles, the graphics, the plotline, the battle system, the size of the game universe, the sheer volume of information in the game (it has its own encyclopedia, and articles typically span pages of text), it should be awesome. But somehow every feature was botched. Any one of these faults would not be enough to hurt the game by itself, but when you put them all together it makes the game nearly unplayable.
It makes me wonder if Square even played through the game once, or if they just dropped testers at specific portions with characters preleveled.
First, I will clear a few things up to try to prove I'm not just hating this game because of my rampant bias against PS2.
I also hate Square as of late, but Enix I have no beef with and I always hope upon release that a SquareEnix game has more Enix and less Square.
I bought this game with the highest of expectations. While looking through a Tales of Symphonia walkthrough, I read a statement that claimed if I liked ToS, then I'd LOVE Star Ocean. So I bit.
My heavy-handed bias against all things not Nintendo is well known at AGN. Heck, I created the script to the "Nintendo Gaming: Put your balls in my mouth, jerk" commercials. That said, I'd like to point out that I enjoyed ToS so much that I wanted to play anything else that was similar. I bought a Playstation 2 for this game. That's how much I expected it to rock.
That's clear now. I expected this game to be good enough to remove my bias and give PS2 a chance. Now for the disappointing review.
The only real way I can review this game in some respects is to compare it to previous RPGs, most notably ToS since they are similar in style.
There's a few small spoilers, but if you're 50% into the game you're probably farther than me so no worries.
Graphics
The graphics of the game aren't necessarily breathtaking, but they are pretty good. Character models are well done, and for the most part facial expressions are good. There's a good deal of clipping issues, but for some reason this is a problem that plagues all modern games so I'll ignore it.
Story
To be quite honest, I haven't played much of the game. I'm probably about 25% through. However, I will say that if you can make it through the first few major events, the story starts to get a lot better. When I stopped, it was getting very interesting. Story is very important to an RPG in my mind, so I have no complaints on the story.
Play Control
To me, playing a good game doesn't feel like playing a game, it feels more like you are reading a book. I shouldn't think to myself "push this button now" but "perform this move now". Star Ocean fails this critical test.
I'll divide the gameplay into the two different portions of play: overworld and battle.
Overworld
For some reason, most PS2 games I play treat the analog stick like a glorified d-pad. You still get only 8 directions, but it's easier to do diagonal. Star Ocean is no exception. I spent the first 45 minutes of the game stumbling everywhere I went, running into walls, attempting to line up with people to properly speak with them, and so on. What's worse, the developers forgot the analog portion of the stick, so here's how the stick works:
0-49% tilt: player faces closest direction on an 8-direction compass
50-100% tilt: player runs full speed in direction indicated (walking is specified by holding a button)
This is ridiculous. I fully expect that with an analog stick I should move slower if I tilt less; the walk button should not be necessary at all.
The camera control is a little awkward at times, but a lot of games are much much worse so I don't really care. The map that is provided is a big help for when the camera is being a pain, so really there's no excuse to hate the camera.
So after a teething period with the controls, there's really no complaints about the overworld.
Battle
The battles alone are enough to make me dislike this game. It's similar to ToS, but I think ToS did it better. You have weak and strong moves, and the particular move you do is influenced by your range from the enemy. Special moves can be performed by holding one of the attack buttons rather than tapping it.
The hold method of executing special moves proves to be rather annoying compared to ToS's direction+button method. The delay is a little too short in my opinion, and I often find myself accidentally wasting TP and getting owned by an enemy because I released the button too late at the end of a combo.
I have found that the battle system is so far very formulaic. I have a combo I use against air enemies and a combo I use against ground enemies. Sometimes I don't use the combo on weaker enemies just for variety, but these combos give the most damage and render the enemy immoble while I am executing them, so they are the best bet. I had a favorite combo in ToS, but at any time there were 6-10 combos at my availability, and there were many situations where the combos I had were no good and I had to find a new strategy. Not in Star Ocean; I just knock the dude up in the air, hit him up in the air again, nail him on the way down, and sometimes hit with a final blow. Wait for him to get up and repeat. It's the same for ground and air enemies, but the starting move is different for both. *yawn*.
Challenge
There's more than one way a game can be challenging. The game can have puzzles that take a while to figure out, enemies that require quick reflexes to react to their patterns, or enemies that are much more powerful than you. RPGs usually have a combination of all 3, but Star Ocean relies heavily on the last (and cheapest) method of challenge.
The challenge of an RPG is usually under the control of the user. You can spend hours on the level treadmill and tear through bosses without breaking a sweat or you can ignore levelling for a challenge. This is more important to a turn-based RPG since at a given level you can deal X damage per turn and will take Y damage per turn, so increasing your attack and raising your defense has a drastic effect on the challenge. However, Star Ocean is not turn-based, and the challenge of the battle depends more on the enemy than on your level (though the level is still important.)
Case in point: Near Aquios, in Irisa Fields, there's an enemy called L16 Ravitch that can cast a spell called Efreet. The spell has a large range and does significant damage. When I first encountered these enemies I always ran, because invariably they'd cast Efreet as a first attack and kill at least one of my party members. 3 or 4 major events later, I was strong enough to withstand Efreet, but it still took 30 seconds or so of concentrated attacks to bring one of these things down.
Next example is the Shrine of Kadaan. The enemies in here were strong enough that I believe the designers intended you to play the level like Metal Gear Solid and avoid all the enemies as opposed to fighting them. However, if you don't get the Anti-Stone Amulet from an optional battle and equip it, you will not defeat the end boss, 4 Vendeeni Soldiers that can petrify with one shot.
So far, the game relies on cruddy play control and overly powerful enemies for its challenge. This is frustrating and detracts greatly from the game.
AI
Usually AI isn't a big deal in an RPG, but in this style of RPG it is. You can only control one character at a time in battle; the other two act on their own will. In ToS you had a large degree of control over the AI, though a few of the characters seemed to have a faulty AI that never used their better moves. In both games, you can swap control to a different character to force them to perform a specific tactic. ToS accomplished this by making you send an order to the character that they obeyed unless they were attacked or in the process of an attack. Star Ocean accomplishes this by making you fully switch control to the other character. There's not much of a difference; both methods have disadvantages and both methods provide frustration 30% of the time.
However, the AI in Star Ocean is about as bad as the Kirby AI in SSB:M. I had to take Cliff's powerful moves away from him because he would deplete all of his TP and/or HP in a single battle performing the same move over and over again, missing half the time. Nel makes a better healer than fighter as far as I'm concerned, but if I tell her to do anything but fight she spends all her time standing on the other side of the battlefield staring at the sky. In fact, if you tell the computer AI to do anything but attack, it tends to spend a lot of time running and avoiding the enemy as opposed to healing or casting spells as you commanded it to. Some of my most frustrating boss battles have involved watching a character stand still for 45 seconds while enemies approach and then getting slaughtered without moving.
It wouldn't be as bad if guarding were simple. To guard an attack, you have to stand still long enough for your fury gauge to fill up, which takes about 2.25 seconds. In this time frame, most attacks will have already landed. ToS had a guard button that, when used skillfully, could reduce the damage you take. Star Ocean tried to introduce a shield that nullifies all damage, but the implementation is useless.
Sadly, the enemy AI does not suffer from the same level of defects that the player AI has. Enemies are capable of performing long chains of combos, and if the right moves are coordinated your character can easily lose 75% or more of their HP while you are helpless to do anything to stop it. Sometimes I've been stuck in juggle chains so long that I would have had time to pour a coke before I recovered. Almost all of my deaths so far have been the result of either 3 enemies executing a ranged move simultaneously, an enemy with a good juggle combo, or a few enemies coordinating a juggle combo. While I applaud the work that went into planning these attacks, I wish that much work had gone into the player AI. Even when you're strong enough to take the enemies, it's really aggravating to get stuck in a combo that takes 30-45 seconds to complete. The only real option you have is to switch to other characters, but if it's a ranged combo it's likely they're stuck in it as well.
Fun
I'm going to finish this game one day. I started it in the fashion I've done recently, with no walkthrough or external help. However, the game is huge to a degree that makes me want to love it so badly. I had to purchase a strategy guide, and the blasted thing is over 250 pages to cover everything in a small font. I'm going to start over using this strategy guide in the hopes that I've been doing something wrong. About 5 of my 20 hours or so were spent walking in circles in a few confusing places, so I can at least save myself that frustration if I already have the map. Also, I'll be sure not to miss any items that could help me. But I'm not expecting to get any fun out of the game.
Character Actions
I will say that Fayt, the main character, is following in the footsteps of many a Square hero; that is, questionably heterosexual. True to Square's high standards since FF VII, each female character model was painstakingly crafted to be as easy on the eyes as possible. They are done in a somewhat anime style, but still manage to look pretty good. The conflict comes from the fact that Fayt seems oblivious to this and somewhat disinterested in general. He hangs out with Sophia all the time if I'm to believe the story, yet he totally ignores her. I'll walk through the first few minutes of the game as I remember them and compare my reactions to Fayt's reactions.
First, the situation's a little complicated because Sophia isn't really Fayt's "girlfriend", but it's obvious she wants to be. My examples will involve my reactions to my girlfriend behaving in the same way, so maybe it would be different but I doubt it.
Sophia is pretty pissed when we first see her. It seems Fayt was supposed to chill on the beach with her, but instead chose to play in the fight simulator instead. Hmm... so I'm an 18-year-old dude and I have a choice with going to the beach with a hot bikini-clad girlfriend or playing "hack the monsters into bits". That is not a choice. I don't think there are any drugs that would make that a tough decistion. Girl on beach wins in my book, Fayt begs to differ.
Fayt does manage to calm Sophia down and makes up with her by promising to go for a walk with her, so he's not entirely stupid. But then Sophia finishes changing. I think it's pretty clear that if your female friend takes half an hour to change just to go on a walk, and her choice of outfit is a spaghetti-string shirt and sprayed-on-tight jeans with the button undone it's a clear sign that she wants you to be more than just her friend. I know if my girlfriend came out of the hotel room dressed like that I'd probably stutter my way through trying to convince her we needed to rest in the room for a while before taking the walk. I guess I'm just a lecherous bastard because Fayt doesn't even notice.
The last flag that Fayt misses occurs in a scripted action on the beach. Some chick walks up to him and starts hitting on Fayt, and he seems kind of confused about what's going on. Choose to tell the loose lady that Sophia is your girlfriend, and here's what the dialog's like:
girl: Oh, that's too bad. It's not fair, all the good guys are taken.
Fayt: Yeah, go away you scantily-clad temptress!
Sophia: I... I... Fa.... I... Did you say.... Oh....
Fayt: I'm glad she's gone, listen, I was just joking, Sophia
Sophia: Joking... about what? I... Oh Fayt... Did you--
Fayt: Yeah, imagine me, your boyfriend? That'd be SO weird! Let's go back inside!
Sophia: Oh... :( :( :( yeah.... funny....
FAYT YOU FOOL! He had two strikes against him, enough to make most less devoted girls scorn him for life, but this was the perfect opportunity to scoop up Sophia in a way that would make any woman jealous, and he's too busy thinking of the fight simulator to see that Sophia would still take him. You don't have to be a successful pimp to see she wants him bad. Why has Square hated the idea of romance in their games since FF3?
Misc.
There's a lot of unlockables, and the trophies are a really cool feature. I really want to love this game. If you look at all the features: the crafting, the exploration, the puzzles, the graphics, the plotline, the battle system, the size of the game universe, the sheer volume of information in the game (it has its own encyclopedia, and articles typically span pages of text), it should be awesome. But somehow every feature was botched. Any one of these faults would not be enough to hurt the game by itself, but when you put them all together it makes the game nearly unplayable.
It makes me wonder if Square even played through the game once, or if they just dropped testers at specific portions with characters preleveled.