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Ich
10-16-2004, 12:18 AM
The blueprints of a better world.

Who knows what is best for you? Bush or Kerry? Can you say with certainty that someone you've likely never met before is capable of making decisions that have a large effect on your life, let alone that he or she is better at making those decisions than you are? If you can't, then you should consider the Libertarian Party. One of the key concepts of the libertarian philosophy is self-ownership, and you are in the position to say what is best for you. The other key belief is that you have a right to protection against coercion and fraud. These are the only necessary regulations in a free market, so that all transactions are completely voluntary and benefit both parties. From these simple core ideas, you can build a working government, stressing personal freedom and responsibility. There you are, the blueprints of a better world.

With simple rules such as these, you can let people live happy lives. The key factor is that they live a life as they choose. You own your body and the work you do. Nobody in the world has more of a right to dictate what you do than yourself. As a personal philosophy, libertarianism is very good. You do not infringe on the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit, and this will work. However, freedom without responsibility is entirely unfeasible. If you do choose to steal, kill, or assault another freedom-loving libertarian, the consequences will be your restitution of their loss, and your punishment. Police forces would be greatly aided by this transition to libertarianism, and we could keep more violent criminals off the streets. What will be the source of this great improvement in service? The police will have roughly twice their current resources when they no longer need to hunt down so called "criminals" whose only "crime" has no victim at all. The police will be able to pursue important things, such as murders and assaults, without their hands tied by the sheer volume of drug cases. On average, drug offenders can expect to spend more time in prison than rapists, even if they harmed nobody in the process. The rapists receive early release, because the prison is so crowded by drug offenders. Is this what America stands for?

By ending federal drug prohibition, we can kill several birds with one stone. Our prisons will no longer be overcrowded, and our streets will be safer because rapists and murderers can stay incarcerated. People will no longer need to steal to support their habits, instead being able to afford their drug of choice with honest work. Basic economics dictates that when the supply is strongly limited with a steadily growing demand, prices will increase to incredible heights. Legalization of drugs will increase the supply so that it can meet market demands, and lower prices will result. With prices removed from the current astronomical heights, drugs will no longer function as an effective source of income for terrorist organizations and gangs.

In the history of the US and the world, whatever the government can do, can be better accomplished by private institutions, often with better results and at lower cost. Throwing 5 trillion dollars at the problem of poverty since Johnson began his "Great Society" reforms has not eradicated poverty, nor raised the standard of living for everyone in the United States, nor ended the problem of homelessness. Privatizing government aid and handouts, not increasing them, is the path to better aid and service. While poverty cannot be eliminated, a dollar for dollar tax credit for those contributing to social-welfare-type charities will better help serve the needy. Rather than confiscation of Social Security to give to the elderly now, allowing people to take it and invest it themselves will allow for people to better afford retirement.
In a market unregulated by the government, things would stabilize and become more competitive; additional regulation drives up costs of everything and puts large corporations at an advantage over smaller businesses. When the government says you don't have a right to charge people what they're willing to pay, that prevents you from making as much money as capitalism dictates you should be able to from your investment. Take for example the current problem with flu shots. The prices of flu shots in Florida skyrocketed up to $900 per vial after the supply was cut in half, and the Attorney General of Kansas, Phil Kline, filed a suit against a company for not charging "fair market value." AG Kline seemed to have forgotten that the market determines "fair market value" by what people are willing to pay. You can bet any money that if the price and profit margin stay that high, other companies are going to begin manufacture, and as quickly as their capitalist selves can manage. Competition increases, price decreases, and the government regulation would have only slowed the progress.

Immigration, a hot issue for many, also can be viewed with the perspective of granting individuals freedom. Not allowing people who want to come to our country to work and support their families borders on insane. More workers, in an unregulated market, make for increased entrepreneurship and more labor to work at the new jobs created through deregulation.

Gun control and ownership are also a major key to a free society. You, as a person, have a right to own a gun. You do not have a right to assault other people with it. The problem with a society with stringent gun control is that violent criminals will still have illegally purchased guns, while law-abiding citizens will not. Like the saying goes, “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” Guns are the best way to protect yourself against violent crime. Often, something as simple as a "Proud Member of the NRA" sticker in your window will deter a robbery in an unsafe neighborhood. Criminals may be immoral, but they are not stupid: they value their lives above your possessions. In England and Australia, after the passage of stringent gun control, the rate of violent crime increased by a factor of four. You can't argue against results.

As the last important issue I will touch upon, the military and terrorism is the foremost in many people's minds. In a libertarian society, it goes without saying that there would never be a draft. The military would be withdrawn from the 130 nations it currently occupies, and kept at home only to be used defensively, and to secure our borders against foreign enemies. In times of severe national emergency, such as an invasion or coup, the populace would be sufficiently armed to defend itself against any removal of their rights. With our borders secured, and immigrants screened to protect against entry of terrorists, we would put up the best defense against terror. Simply withdrawing our troops from meddling in the affairs of other nations would stop much terrorism at its source. We would return to the government of Jefferson, with "peace, commerce and honest friendship with all people, entangling alliances with none."

Pablo
10-16-2004, 12:32 AM
Essays like this make me sad that our political system is dominated by two parties.

Although I think the isolationism you encourage toward the end would be a lot more difficult to establish than you imply, overall I agree with you (especially the bit about drug control.)

Great work, Ich.

Ganonator
10-16-2004, 12:35 AM
http://www.theadvocates.org/images/sharon-harris.jpg
Just thought i'd scare you.

I'm a big fan of the philosophy, but I can't see it working in a society where 40% of those below the poverty line aren't necessarily trying to make it in the world. (I pulled that % from nowhere. Fucking sue me)

I have 3 of the 4 things now - normal priced drugs I'm willing to take, freedom to bear arms, and freedom from the police. We're still working on getting my decisions to impact the society as a whole.

When the world crashes, we'll pull this together at my place. C'ya then, Ich.

Artex
10-16-2004, 02:06 AM
Well you brought up many controversial points Ich hun, that's no doubt. I've heard a few of those views before (and agree on some), but you expressed and linked them fluently. Good job, you put some thought into that it seems, imo.

Sylvan_Wizard
10-16-2004, 02:08 AM
Good article, though there are a few issues:

Nobody in the world has more of a right to dictate what you do than yourself.This statement has implications I don't agree with, but I agree with the intended sentiment.

In a market unregulated by the government, things would stabilize and become more competitive; additional regulation drives up costs of everything and puts large corporations at an advantage over smaller businesses. When the government says you don't have a right to charge people what they're willing to pay, that prevents you from making as much money as capitalism dictates you should be able to from your investment.The market would not stabilize. If the economy were not carefully controlled, capitalism would cause the economy to collapse within a decade. It happened before, and it would happen again. That's why the Federal Reserve was created, to prevent more economic collapses. The Fed & the banks carefully regulate the economy, and if they didn't, various economic factors would throw the economy out of whack and everything would go down the tube.

More workers, in an unregulated market, makes for increased entrepreneurship, and more labor to work at the new jobs created through deregulation.And more workers means inflation rises. When inflation rises, things cost more and people spend less. They also do less long term planning that involves spending money like building houses and investing. When demand is down, supply gets too high and production needs to decrease. Then unemployment increases. Then recession hits, and if it weren't for the economy being carefully controlled, it would all go to hell.

Gun control and gun ownership are also a major key to a free society. You, as a person, have a right to own a gun. You do not have a right to assault other people with it. The difference between a society with gun control, and one without, is that violent criminals will still have weapons, purchased illegally, while law-abiding citizens will not. Without guns, you will be unable to protect yourself from those who get them in spite of laws controlling their ownershop. Often, something as simple as a "Proud Member of the NRA" sticker in your window will deter a robbery in an unsafe neighborhood. Criminals may be immoral, but are not stupid: they value their lives above your possessions. In England and Australia, after the passage of stringent gun control, the rate of violent crime increased by a factor of four. You can't argue against results.Lets have a look at the results then shall we?
Murders with firearms in North America:
1. United States 8,259 (1999)
2. Mexico 3,589 (2000)
3. Canada 165 (1999)

It's not legal in Canada to carry weapons, and it has a far lower rate. This seems to contradict your claim.
Source (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir/NAM).
It does seem sensible, but how do you argue the facts?

With our borders secured, and immigrants screened to protect against entry of terrorists, we would put up the best defense against terror.What about terror from the inside?

mikeron
10-16-2004, 02:27 AM
Sylvan_Wizard, your comment about the economy not stabilizing is dubious at best.

As for your numbers about gun crimes, you don't take any of the other characteristics of the United States and Canada into account. There are nearly 10 times as many people living in the United States, and they are living under different conditions. How about a percentage of murders occuring in specific demographics? I seem to remember Los Angeles recently being named the murder capital of the United States.

Rainman
10-16-2004, 02:55 AM
Lets have a look at the results then shall we?
Murders with firearms in North America:
1. United States 8,259 (1999)
2. Mexico 3,589 (2000)
3. Canada 165 (1999)


That isn't the "rate of murders". It's the straight numbers. You have to take into account the population.
USA 290,342,554 - 0.0028%

Canada 32,207,113 - 0.00051%

Mexico 104,907,991 - 0.0034%

So mexico has a higher murders per population.

Also there is a matter of curcumstances to incorporate into this. Canada is bigger than the US yet 1/3 of the US's population. With higher population density there's bound to be a higher murder rate. Also, note that Canada sends a good amount of their work force to the US. People could be getting killed down here and that not count towards the murders in Canada. Granted Canada does manage about 1/5 of the murders we do per population so something's gotta be working up there. I wouldn't necessarily link it to gun control though.

They do have a lot of pot up there....


I agree a lot with the Libertarian party granted, but I'm still voting for Kerry. The reason being that I really care about him winning. I disagree so much with Bush on social issues that I fear what he might do in a presidential term where he doesn't have to worry about re-election. With that kind of freedom he might try to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage or abortion. He might work to further blur the lines between church and state and I seriously would hate for that to happen. As an atheist, I already feel pretty much at odds with the government who's congress yells out "under God" in some attempt to affirm their beliefs as the foundation of this country. If it weren't for these social issues I'd be a lot more undecided and perhaps would vote libertarian.

I should note, however, that a multiparty government is notoriously awkward. Parties can get their way with only minority of the citizen's agreeing with them. Such is the way in Canada with 4 primary parties. Two parties has an upside in at least it holds to the theme of democracy where majority wins. The only problem is when the majority is wrong...

Ich
10-16-2004, 08:39 AM
(On Guns)
It does seem sensible, but how do you argue the facts?
Quoth Michael Badnarik: I have no doubt that members of the anti-gun crowd would be happy to offer statistical data which appears to contradict the numbers I have just mentioned. Even if they could, their alternate statistics are not enough authority to strip me of my inalienable right to keep and bear arms. My rights are non-negotiable. I don't care if someone else doesn't like it. I don't care if they toss and turn at night, anxiously worried about what I might do with my firearm. My rights are not predicated on whether or not you LIKE what I'm doing. You only have a complaint when I present a "clear and present danger", which is not the case if I have my firearm in a holster.

What about terror from the inside?
Our police forces would have twice their current resources, from not dealing with drug crimes, plus because the rate of violent crime does decrease when you don't have to hold up stores to pay for your addiction, you can afford your drugs with honest work.

Another issue Rainman brought up is voting.

Rather than stick with highly limiting electoral college, a ballot system designed to pick the candidate the most people would like as president. I give you: Approval Voting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting) When you can cast an unlimited number of votes but only one per candidate is basically saying "Who could you tolerate as president?" You check "yes" next to all of their names, and the person with the plurality is the victor. You wouldn't have you cast your vote for someone you didn't much agree with in order to prevent some you entirely disagree with from being elected. I realize a large number of these reforms would take some time to implement, but they would benefit society.

Further reading: http://badnarik.org/plans.php

Sylvan_Wizard
10-16-2004, 12:49 PM
Sylvan_Wizard, your comment about the economy not stabilizing is dubious at best.Which part do you find dubious? The conclusion follows from the statements before it, so if you have a problem with the conclusion you must have a problem with at least one of those statements.

As for your numbers about gun crimes, you don't take any of the other characteristics of the United States and Canada into account. There are nearly 10 times as many people living in the United States, and they are living under different conditions.Ten times 100 is still only 1,000. Yes there are different conditions, guns aren't allowed.

Also there is a matter of curcumstances to incorporate into this. Canada is bigger than the US yet 1/3 of the US's population. With higher population density there's bound to be a higher murder rate.Good point.

Also, note that Canada sends a good amount of their work force to the US. People could be getting killed down here and that not count towards the murders in Canada.And they shouldn't.

Granted Canada does manage about 1/5 of the murders we do per population so something's gotta be working up there. I wouldn't necessarily link it to gun control though.It does appear to be a factor. The numbers cited are for gun murders only.

They do have a lot of pot up there....Yeah, it's colder in Canada too. Maybe that's it. </Sarcasm>

I agree a lot with the Libertarian party granted, but I'm still voting for Kerry. The reason being that I really care about him winning. I disagree so much with Bush on social issues that I fear what he might do in a presidential term where he doesn't have to worry about re-election. With that kind of freedom he might try to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage or abortion. He might work to further blur the lines between church and state and I seriously would hate for that to happen. As an atheist, I already feel pretty much at odds with the government who's congress yells out "under God" in some attempt to affirm their beliefs as the foundation of this country. If it weren't for these social issues I'd be a lot more undecided and perhaps would vote libertarian.I agree too. I wouldn't vote libertarian if Bush was the candidate, regardless of how libertarian I am.

Quoth Michael Badnarik: I have no doubt that members of the anti-gun crowd would be happy to offer statistical data which appears to contradict the numbers I have just mentioned. Even if they could, their alternate statistics are not enough authority to strip me of my inalienable right to keep and bear arms. My rights are non-negotiable. I don't care if someone else doesn't like it. I don't care if they toss and turn at night, anxiously worried about what I might do with my firearm. My rights are not predicated on whether or not you LIKE what I'm doing. You only have a complaint when I present a "clear and present danger", which is not the case if I have my firearm in a holster.I do not disagree with that, however it does not support the argument you seem to be attempting to make.

Rather than stick with highly limiting electoral college, a ballot system designed to pick the candidate the most people would like as president. I give you: Approval Voting. When you can cast an unlimited number of votes but only one per candidate is basically saying "Who could you tolerate as president?" You check "yes" next to all of their names, and the person with the plurality is the victor.Approval voting sounds decent, but I'd prefer direct democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy).

Darkgrammer
10-16-2004, 01:58 PM
Lets have a look at the results then shall we?
Murders with firearms in North America:
1. United States 8,259 (1999)
2. Mexico 3,589 (2000)
3. Canada 165 (1999)

It's not legal in Canada to carry weapons, and it has a far lower rate. This seems to contradict your claim.
Source.
It does seem sensible, but how do you argue the facts?

It is legal to have weapons in Canada, It's Illegal to have them in Mexico.
But sometimes Crime rates are sway by poverty since Mexico is in poverty I see why rainman says the murder rates are higher there. That's no excuse for the US they still have one of the highests.

mikeron
10-16-2004, 07:15 PM
Which part do you find dubious? The conclusion follows from the statements before it, so if you have a problem with the conclusion you must have a problem with at least one of those statements.The entire paragraph uses poor logic:
The market would not stabilize. If the economy were not carefully controlled, capitalism would cause the economy to collapse within a decade.Why would it collapse? Within a decade? Where'd you find this number?

It happened before, and it would happen again.I assume you're talking about the depression of the 30's? That was caused by an economy based on credit, which was all called in at once.
That's why the Federal Reserve was created, to prevent more economic collapses.The Federal Reserve (The Fed) was created in 1914.
The Fed & the banks carefully regulate the economy, and if they didn't, various economic factors would throw the economy out of whack and everything would go down the tube. The main duty of the Fed (as far as I'm concerned) is to set the interest rates on loans between banks and the government, and to buy and sell treasury bonds. You see, banks are capitalist organizations. The money you put in the bank is invested in order to turn a profit.

FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) was created in 1933 (mid-depression) to protect bank patrons. Money deposited in the banks is insured ("FDIC insured").

I don't see how capitalism would undo any of this.

Yes there are different conditions, guns aren't allowed.I was referring to the economic and environmental circumstances of the murders. You seem to like to examine one hint of evidence and take it as your banner, charging full steam to inevitably weak conclusions, batting away any ominous chagrin and other, better leads.

Also, read the post above mine. ;)

Ich
10-16-2004, 11:45 PM
Approval voting sounds decent, but I'd prefer direct democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy).
I wasn't talking about a total overhaul of the political system, I was talking about improving our indirect democracy. The problem with voting so often is increased voter apathy; it requires much more constant vigilance. It would also mean overthrowing our current government. Any change to that would have to be approved by a majority of congressmen. I don't care how principled you are, you're never going to vote to eliminate your job.

Sylvan_Wizard
10-17-2004, 11:15 AM
It is legal to have weapons in Canada, It's Illegal to have them in Mexico.Seems you're right, but only if they're licensed and registered, and you're limited in what kind of guns are allowed, and they must be holstered. And you can't have a liscence if someone doesn't think you should have one:
"A person is not eligible to hold a licence if it is desirable, in the interests of the safety of that or any other person, that the person not possess a firearm, a cross-bow, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition or prohibited ammunition."

You also have to successfully complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course.

Why would it collapse? Within a decade? Where'd you find this number?Because it happened before, which is why the Fed (Federal Reserve) was created. I got it from http://money.howstuffworks.com/fed.htm

The main duty of the Fed (as far as I'm concerned) is to set the interest rates on loans between banks and the government, and to buy and sell treasury bonds. You see, banks are capitalist organizations. The money you put in the bank is invested in order to turn a profit.The reason they do that is to control the economy (see link above).


I don't see how capitalism would undo any of this.Capitalism would throw the economy out of whack if it weren't controlled. That's why the Fed does what it does.

I wasn't talking about a total overhaul of the political system, I was talking about improving our indirect democracy.Certainly, I was just stating my opinion on the subject: that it should be overhauled.

I don't care how principled you are, you're never going to vote to eliminate your job.I guess you don't know too many principled people. There are people who would do so.

mikeron
10-17-2004, 07:54 PM
Sylvan_Wizard, you seem to be confusing capitalism with currency regulation. When we talk about capitalism, we mean things like charging as much or as little as you want, and not having to pay outrageous taxes, the Fed handles interactions between the banks and the government. Get your facts straight. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve)

Sylvan_Wizard
10-18-2004, 10:24 PM
Sylvan_Wizard, you seem to be confusing capitalism with currency regulation.That's not all there is to capitalism. Capitalism refers to private ownership of capital (eg. land), and/or the operation of capitalist markets or economies. See capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism).

[...]the Fed handles interactions between the banks and the government. Get your facts straight. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve)What in that article contradicts what I've said, or what's in the article on HowStuffWorks?