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View Full Version : Canada to outlaw hate speech, christian fundamentalists in an uproar



AlexMax
04-18-2004, 08:59 PM
Hate bill feared as threat to free speech
Inclusion of sexual orientation opposed by church groups

The Canadian Press

April 18, 2004

Fearing it will muzzle free speech and possibly outlaw the Bible, more than a thousand protesters took to Parliament Hill on Saturday to speak out against Bill C-250.

The bill would include sexual orientation in Canada's existing hate propaganda laws and is now before the Senate.

Protesters, many of whom had travelled from Toronto, want to make sure it dies there.

Rev. Dominic Tse, of a Chinese community church in Toronto, said he fears if the bill passes it will have a chilling effect on legitimate public debate.

"The Chinese culture has a long history of certain morals that we hold dearly, regardless of our religious affiliation," he said. "We believe some acts of sexual behaviour are immoral and we want to make sure we have the right to have public debate on these issues."

Tse said as members of a visible minority, they are firmly against any incitement of violence against any individual.

"We have that experience ourselves, so we know what it means," he said.

"We also know what it means to live under a society where you cannot speak your mind."

Wilma Henkelman of Ottawa is convinced the bill is treading on her Pentecostal faith.

"We can't announce what's in a Bible anymore," she said. "It's called a criminal act."

However, Laurie Arron, director of advocacy for Egale Canada, said the protest was not about freedom of religion.

"I think that's a misplaced fear that they have and a misunderstanding of the legislation," he said. "I think the people who have organized this rally have really misled the people in attendance. They tell them things like you're not going to be able to voice your opposition to equal marriage because of C-250."

He said the notion the proposed bill would stifle debate about same-sex marriage is almost "laughable."

"The threshold that the Criminal Code places on hate speech is so high that anybody expressing a religious opinion is not going to be caught by this law," Arron said, adding it requires a person to wilfully promote and spread the worst forms of hatred.

As Arron and other members of Egale stood arm in arm at the protest to show support for the bill, he said they wanted people to know it is about placing further limits on hate speech, not free speech.

"Gays and lesbians deserve the same protection as other victims of hate crimes," Arron said.

© The Edmonton Journal 2004

Honestly, what the hell is wrong with fundamentalists?

Rainman
04-18-2004, 09:03 PM
It be nice if they'd outlaw the bible. I'd end a lot of problems, IMO ;) j/k

or am I...

Starkist
04-18-2004, 09:03 PM
What's wrong with you people who worship the first amendment when it suits you, yet consider disagreeable speech to be a crime?

Rainman
04-18-2004, 09:05 PM
"The threshold that the Criminal Code places on hate speech is so high that anybody expressing a religious opinion is not going to be caught by this law," Arron said, adding it requires a person to wilfully promote and spread the worst forms of hatred."

I can't imagine you'd disagree with that.

AlexMax
04-18-2004, 09:05 PM
What's wrong with you people who worship the first amendment when it suits you, yet consider disagreeable speech to be a crime?

There is a difference between disagreeable speech and hate speech. Where did you get 'disagreeable speech' from? I did a quick Ctrl+F and the first person to say "disagree" was you.

Please note, I am not against christians at all. But when anyone takes anything to an extreme, it's not healthy at all. In my eyes, fundamentalists are no better than people who play Everquest 18 hours a day or PETA extremests.

deathbyhokie
04-18-2004, 09:12 PM
There is a difference between disagreeable speech and hate speech. Where did you get 'disagreeable speech' from? I did a quick Ctrl+F and the first person to say "disagree" was you.

Please note, I am not against christians at all. But when anyone takes anything to an extreme, it's not healthy at all. In my eyes, fundamentalists are no better than people who play Everquest 18 hours a day or PETA extremests.

but you would freely say it was hate speech if i said "homosexuality is a sin, and immoral". Christian are accuse of hating homosexuals and being a homophobe every day over that simple bit. who's to say it won't get blown out of proportion resulting in Christian being thrown in jail for thir beliefs?

Starkist
04-18-2004, 09:12 PM
The disagreement lies in the distinction of what is hate speech. Does it mean advocating violence against a person? Sure, I would agree with that. However, there are groups who want to call hate speech any form of speech that calls something like homosexuality wrong or immoral. Would you consider that hate speech too?

Rainman
04-18-2004, 09:15 PM
but you would freely say it was hate speech if i said "homosexuality is a sin, and immoral". Christian are accuse of hating homosexuals and being a homophobe every day over that simple bit. who's to say it won't get blown out of proportion resulting in Christian being thrown in jail for thir beliefs?

Saying homosexuality is a sin isn't hate speech. Saying that they should die for it is.

And thrust me, christians aren't going to be discriminated against anytime soon. Especially in this country...

AlexMax
04-18-2004, 09:23 PM
The disagreement lies in the distinction of what is hate speech. Does it mean advocating violence against a person? Sure, I would agree with that. However, there are groups who want to call hate speech any form of speech that calls something like homosexuality wrong or immoral. Would you consider that hate speech too?

It's not a matter of what you or I consider hate speech, it's what the canadian government considers hate speech.

Don't know what that is? Google is your best friend.

lBill C-250 (PDF format) (http://www.parl.gc.ca/PDF/37/2/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/private/c-250_3.pdf)

Subection 318 of the Canadian Criminal Code "Hate Propaganda" (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/41491.html)

RCP

EDIT: Also, the remaining 'grey area', if there is any, is why courts were invented, so a third party can decide if something really does fall under this code.

Rainman
04-18-2004, 09:30 PM
Seems reasonable to me. No different then turning in terrorist organizations for similar threats against our country. It clearly states that it's for propaganda that advocates genocide.