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View Full Version : What is the true definition of 'boss'?



eXodus
10-22-2003, 07:21 PM
This is not a simple "they are much bigger and/or stronger than normal enemies" thing. ZC is supposed to treat bosses differently, such as never letting them return, or come back if only some of them in the same room were killed (Must kill all bosses Rule). So why, for instance, do Dodongos come back like enemies, and Moldorms only come back in certain rooms?

ShadowTiger
10-23-2003, 07:42 AM
The first thing that comes to mind when someone says "Boss," is ..... COOL! That was awesome! :eek: :D

Imagine, if you will, that you enter a boss room. But.. it's empty. :shrug: You turn to leave, and a huge rock falls on you, smashing the floor in its wake. You fall and fall and fall, (Done via animations of the walls, not tricks.) And you have to dodge falling rocks on the way down. Then you fall into a Gohma den, and this really big Gohma chases you down the hallway trying to step on you. :p Hell, it's possible now, so get ready for something cool. If not now, .. eventually.

Bosses usually tend to be very exciting and awe-inspiring. If not backed by some amazing special effects, it should have some kick@$$ midis AT LEAST to back it up.

Yoshiman
10-23-2003, 04:13 PM
Bosses usually look alot tougher and are more dramatic than regular enemies. People who use ZQuest nowadays usually always put some kind of dramatic boss music with it. Bosses always look indimidating. Here's an example:

http://www.rpgicons.com/images/icons/sd3/enemies/battum.gif
Enemy

http://www.rpgicons.com/images/icons/sd3/bosses/fmhagger.gif
Boss

See how much more intimidating the boss creature is? A little bat would just be laughed at is he were a boss. So reinstating what BH4 said, bosses are AWESOME!

ShadowTiger
10-23-2003, 04:38 PM
Aye. Well put, Yoshiman. :thumbsup:
However, I suppose that it's also possible for a blank screen to be a boss. You come all the way, unlock the boss door, and come upon a blank room. Wouldn't you expect a boss to be there? Either way, your adrenaline is probably at least slightly pumped by then. I think I'll try that. ;)

Verbatim
10-23-2003, 06:23 PM
The answer to your question, eXodus, is that nobody knows what the people at Nintendo were thinking when they made several boss-like non-boss enemies (e.g. moldorms) and some non-boss-like bosses (e.g. dodongos). Maybe they were smoking something funky?

ShadowTiger
10-23-2003, 06:45 PM
:laughing: Heh. No, I don't think they were smokin anything. Perhaps a "real" boss, just raised the bar for them. The "bosses" they had at the time, would have sufficed. I mean, take Dodongos. They're completely immune to the sword. They're walking tanks! If you put a bomb in their vulnerable spot, they will explode after taking a beating. (If you slice them apart before they die, they return some explosives back :p )

And Gleeoks are Dragons. It's fairly intimidating to see a multi-headed Dragon. Their fireballs cannot be blocked by any shield, and take many damage points before they die. Besides, they didn't have a lot of space or system abilities to make the bosses like now back then. :p Can't make lemonade pie if you don't have lemons. :spin:

eXodus
10-23-2003, 08:19 PM
I say ZQuest needs some kind of distinction between (original)sub-bosses (bosses that are treated as enemies - Dodongo, Moldorm, Lanmola) and real bosses (bosses that are effected by Must Kill All Bosses and never come back otherwise - Aquamentis, Gohma, Patra, Digdogger, Gleeok). Maybe different headings in the enemy selector? And what about Quest rules such as Sub-bosses never return, Bosses count as enemies, or even rules for each one separately?

Kirby of Doom
10-23-2003, 10:19 PM
Sounds to me having seperate bosses and minibosses would go along with an enemy editor, which, although really cool, would take a lot of programming and reprogramming.

eXodus
10-26-2003, 06:20 PM
You're probably right - that would be a welcome addition to the long suggested enemy editor. Flags for boss and sub-boss can really help, but they could probably be put in now as a place holder. What would be less work though is making the other version of each boss. Imagine coming to a room with a Four-headed Gleeok, and these are the results of coming back after dying: kill one head - they're all back; kill two heads - only two of them are there; kill three heads - still two are there; and kill all four and come back later - two of them are back! This could be done with a Two-headed boss Gleeok and a Two-headed sub-boss Gleeok in the same spot. Now how much more versatile is that?

redmage777
10-30-2003, 09:24 AM
I think it should be determined by a Screen Flag. There are many cases where people WANT to see some of these So-called bosses return in thier quests. I've wanted to use Aquamentis as a common foe, but he always dies and never comes back. Once on the 1st Level, I used 6 Vire Tribbles as the boss (They do make for a Boss-Quality Challange if all you have is a Wooden Sword) The Boss Flag would help both ways.

Happyman
10-31-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Yoshiman
A little bat would just be laughed at is he were a boss. Black Rabite. :evil:

ShadowTiger
10-31-2003, 07:40 AM
Correction. A little bat that you had to kill without any weaponry of any sort would be a deadly adversary. Add a single fireball to that to keep you moving, and you would have the most dastardly boss EVER CONCIEVED! :eek: .... You think I'm lying. :sb: We shall see.

Yoshiman
10-31-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Happyman
Black Rabite. :evil:

But then there's bosses like that. It gives the player an element of surprise. The enemy appears to be a little wimpy rabbit, but it could easily kill you (Or so I've heard). Most bosses are usually big and intimidating. But then there are bosses like that. :shrug:

Links Returning
11-02-2003, 09:02 AM
It was kinda always like that, even back on nintendo. Bosses have always been like that for that engine adn if we were to change it, it wouldn't take zc away from what it stands for....
It has already drifted enough...

eXodus
11-02-2003, 06:59 PM
Guess what, BH4? I killed that bat only seconds after you mentioned it! How? I hardly think the Mirror Shield would be classed as


weaponry of any sort

Speaking of black, player sized bosses... DEATHKNIGHTS! I HATE THEM SO MUCH!!! The only time I've seen water in the same room as one and there's at least one blue Wizzrobe! What ways other than the Red Potion or the Stepladder trick works as well on Deathknights as on fast Darknuts?

Then again, I'd probably say that's what makes them harder than Ganon - they're harder to run around and stab then him, and both their shots and collisions are more damaging.

I've got it - enemy variation idea! Make a Deathknight move at Link's speed, but give him more HP and the ability to move and turn on half tiles. Who do you have? Shadow!!!


Link: "First Ocarina of Time, then Smash Bros. Melee, now this... I told you - I'll play Link's Adventure again when they make a ZeldaClassic port of it!"

*b*
11-02-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by eXodus
Who do you have? Shadow!!!


Link: "First Ocarina of Time, then Smash Bros. Melee, now this... I told you - I'll play Link's Adventure again when they make a ZeldaClassic port of it!"

um, what is that about? I seem to get confused really easily these days... lack of sleep, I guess :shrug:

aslo, you can use " or ' instead of the quote tag to quote people

eXodus
11-02-2003, 09:45 PM
Damn it, I knew I'd have to explain this to somone. And it's sort of of topic too. *b*, you're not confused - it's the voice in your head that explains things to you that's confused (sorry, I don't mean that, it just sounded too funny not to say).

To make a long story short, it was my fault - I shouldn't be messing around with vbCode just to see how to use it. But you must admit, it is hard to tell the difference between a real quote:


*b*: "I seem to get confused really easily these days..."

... and a fictional quote (stuff someone didn't actually say or stuff that you think might be said by a game character):


Britannianhero4: "For the last time, Zolas and Zoras are not the same!"

I know people normally leave out the name, but if it's not in the thread (or doesn't exist, like in my last post) then few know who said it.

And now the long story for those who didn't understand the content of the aforementioned post.

Shadow is another name for Dark Link, the final boss in Zelda 2: Link's Adventure. He made boss cameos in Ocarina of Time (Water Temple Sub-boss) and Super Smash Brothers Melee (one of the event battles with Link VS Dark Link, 2 lives each). Now I'm suggesting we have him in ZC. The (fictional) quote is just telling you what Link is saying to Dark Link.

I think that cleared things up. I also think the long story was shorter than the first one, but I don't care. I just hope BH4 doesn't get up me for not knowing he's over the Zora / Zola thing...