Annoying ZC Dungern

[Teutonic Knight]

Some times when i play ZC, there is a dungern that has something useless to do with that dungern, but you need that item for another dungern, for example...

the is a raft in a dungern...but that dungern that your in doesnt need it, so you just pass it without knowing there is another item in there waiting to be in links hands, so then u go to the next dungern witch would be somewhere else.

once in the next dungern, at the very end is a place where u need to use the RAFT, but u dont have it, so u have to go all the way back to dungern whadeva, but befor u do that u'll be bored becouse with some people, the dungern is the last place to look.:sweat:

[ShadowTiger]

And this is the trademark of a creative quest. People do this as a kind of puzzle. It works sometimes. But sometimes it can get annoying, but when it does work, it really adds something to that quest.

[C-Dawg]

Ok, BH4, what? "This is the trademark of a creative quest"? Look, you're adding alot to the community and generally a positive member of AGN, but I see alot of cases like this where some forethought before your post might help.

This post is just a small example. You're asserting "Having a dungeon item you dont need to complete that dungeon is the hallmark of a creative quest", when Tuectonic Knight is most likely referring to Level 4 of the 1st Quest. Even if he wasn't, I don't think a statement asserting, with an air of authority, that all creative quests do this- having played many that dont do this, its just not true.

You've filled up the rest of the post with informed-sounding information that is utterly void of content. "It works sometimes but sometimes can get annoying. But when it does work, it really adds something to that quest"? You might as well be saying "It works except when it doesn't" It's not spam because you're trying to say something, but it's a post with no content.

I only take issue with this because I've seen this sort of post from ya ALOT recently (authoritative but questionable statement, followed by useless observations). It isn't worth getting your post count up to post things that not only lack substance, but arn't even amusing :-/

-C

[ShadowTiger]

:odd: Well thank you for your observations, C-Dawg. But if you would care to take this up with me in the KTC, I would have nothing to say to you. Edit: I mean that literally.

I was hoping to hear something about freeform dungeons from you, but apparently not. I came here in the hopes of a discussion like that, but I am greeted with talk of how ones' hopes have been dashed. And seeing as I can't really even understand what Teutonic Knight was saying, (no offense.) I was attempting to spurn some sort of further explanation. Either way, I would have gotten one.

So T-Knight, if you care to provide a point worthy of discussion, we can get this discussion underway.

[DarkFlameWolf]

actually, C-dawg, it was level 4 of the 1st quest that had the Raft. Level 4 requires the raft if you wanted to reach it. ;)

[Jigglysaint]

I think I'm going to close this one since its starting to get out of control, but I'll do it maybe in a few hours.

In Zelda 1, there is no such thing as a raft flag, the raft path is fixed in place, hard coded as it would. In Zelda Classic the raft is not hard coded. You can put a raft path in a dungeon in ZC, but not in Zelda 1.

The number 1 rule of any Zelda game is to explore. You need to push all the blocks and use any item to continue. This is the very nature of the game. Now granted, Zelda 1(and soon to be my Zelda 4 hack) are the only games where you don't need certain items to finish the level, but need them to get to another dungeon.

BTW, if you hate backtracking, don't play my quest for 1.90 as it involves massive backtracking, even worse than some real games.

[DarkFlameWolf]

I totally agree with Jigglypu....er...saint. Zelda 1, Zelda 2 and even Zelda 3 are based on exploration and using items to continue forward in a somewhat non-linear fashion. The new games of Zelda are more linear than usual, so I'm not counting them. Hopefully the Wind Maker will bring back the unlinearity of the series. I'm trying to achieve a good balanced of linearity and freeform exploration in my upcoming quest by giving the player a WIDE area to explore and each new item opens up another big area to explore, etc. And to find everything my quest has to offer, you do indeed have to push every block, burn every shrub, move or bomb every wall, test every wall and even dive deep into suspicious waters to find it all.

[ShadowTiger]

Hopefully the Wind Maker will bring back the unlinearity of the series. Is this your quest, DWF? Or is it a new Zelda game that I've missed. Please excuse my ignorance.

And C-Dawg, my first post here, I merely didn't understand what was being said. It was imperfectly phrased, and therefore so was my post.

[bigjoe]

Wind Waker = Zelda Cube

[ShadowTiger]

:kawaii: Thank you BigJoe! I'm definitely getting that before my coupon runs out. :drool:

Non-Linearity can be fun sometimes. But on the other side of the coin, plot can be equally fun. So I guess it's up to the gamer which to play.

[C-Dawg]

<sigh>

See, there it is again, BH4. A post with nothing but vapid statements. "Non-linearity is fun. And so is not non-linearity". Have you ever seen the movie "Mystery Men"? Your posts generally remind me of the Sphinx. They sound nice except... they're pointless. Take a stand, man.

Anyway, on topic. If the question is : should you require people to go back into previous dungeons, my answer is no. None of the Zelda Games have ever done that. Once you got the item and the triforce, it was done. Forcing the player to go back just seems like an unnecessary annoyance (unless done for some plot reason). However, OPTIONAL backtracking strikes me as a great idea. Hide extra HCP's in early levels that can't be immediatly accessed and what not.

Of course, NONE of this conversation is actually on topic. Tuectonic Knight was not raising a question about linearity at all- he was raising a question about dungeons where you don't need to get the item in order to collect the triforce. There's overlap in the sense that perhaps not getting the item will require backtracking, but the two topics arn't totally the same beause in TK's case, presumably you could get the item the first time through.

-C

[ShadowTiger]

C-Dawg - Please, Stop. There are other members here who would like to enjoy themselves, but arguments not based in KTC serve to negate this mod-given right. So either take it up with me in the Coliseum, or cease your pointless critiquing.. Thank you.

And back on topic for me too... :rolleyes: :)

There were those moments on Ocarina of Time where you had to go back to get something. It wasn't crucial, but there were quests where you had to get something from a long time ago. For example, in Dodongo's cavern, there was (is, for most of us. :sweat: ) a gold Skulltula that can only be destroyed when you have the hookshot, so you have to come back as an adult.

[Jigglysaint]

"To move forward, you must first go back"

[ShadowTiger]

:laughing: All too true. Now who here can honestly say that they did that, though. I would rather not have.

But what about official items? Are some items too hard to find? When you find them, would you think that it's one of those "luxury items" because it's not in a place you would have expected it to be?

[raptorscyther]

For example, in Dodongo's cavern, there was (is, for most of us. ) a gold Skulltula that can only be destroyed when you have the hookshot, so you have to come back as an adult.

There is?? *Turns on 64 and gets it*
I have to agree with backtracking being an important part in the Zelda series. However, too much backtracking gets boring and too much linearity (is that a word?) destroys the games' replayability as youve done it all before.
The only Zelda that i thought was too linear was Majoras Mask.

[Zaggarum]

Originally posted by Teutonic Knight
Some times when i play ZC, there is a dungern that has something useless to do with that dungern, but you need that item for another dungern, for example...

the is a raft in a dungern...but that dungern that your in doesnt need it, so you just pass it without knowing there is another item in there waiting to be in links hands, so then u go to the next dungern witch would be somewhere else.

once in the next dungern, at the very end is a place where u need to use the RAFT, but u dont have it, so u have to go all the way back to dungern whadeva, but befor u do that u'll be bored becouse with some people, the dungern is the last place to look.:sweat:

Sorry to say dude, but most Zelda games are like this even the official ones from Nintendo. Thats what a Zelda game is about.

[DarkFlameWolf]

I agree with C-dawg and I've already implemented that in my new quest. There will be 1-2 treasures in each dungeon that must be backtracked to if you want to get it. Otherwise, people will forget about them and move on.