Consideration of Higher Quality

[C-Dawg]

Damn.

I released Dreams of Yesterday about a week ago, and it's spawned four currently active threads in Quest Announcement, and is mentioned frequently in several threads in other ZC forums. What suprises me is that only HALF or so of those references are me shamelessly advertising the quest.

I attribute the large number of people playing it to the fact that truly large, hyped quests come out VERY rarely. We've been waiting for Mystic Land for a year, and it looks like we'll be waiting another year. The MegaMan quest that I thought was nearly done apparently is still being constructed. DC's Metal Gear quest is dormant. TSA's Rpg-style ZC contest quest has also not been heard from in awhile.

I bring this up because I'm faced with a bit of a dillema. If this quest really is gonna be popular, I'm sort of obligated to finish debugging and get a nice clean version out there. I didnt plan on doing this much work, but I feel a bit guilty that people are willing to play and enjoy a quest even though it's rough around the edges. Anyone have some comments on this little insight into ZeldaClassic philosophy?

-C

[The Savior]

If people are enjoying themselves, then why bother with bug fixes, unless they're game-breaking type bugs?

[C-Dawg]

Because it means that any lack in quality will be seen by alot of peeps- and it'll be a reflection on me. Its not just board people. I imagine if enough people like the quest, it'll be linked on QDB or some such engine when it's up, with some good reviews. So the effect snowballs.

Take the Revenge games- well known, much-played, and flawless. (if you overlook the fact that the stairways just warp you aroudn the same floor anyway ;) ) No shame in everyone knowing you made those.

-C

[MottZilla]

Yes, debug it while it's still in play by most and before the rest get to playing it. No point in debuging it later you know?

[Qun Mang]

Well, see, you only have yourself to blame for releasing a quest during a void when few complete or almost-complete quests are being released b/c most authors are completing contest quests :laughing: :D.

I foresee that come December, our attention will be diffused among many great quests, making bugs seem larger since one tends to become less tolerant when one has choices :cyclops:.

Of course, bugs don't make your quest any less enjoyable, C-Dawg. Keep up the great work! :grad:

[The Silent Assassin]

I would like to note my quest is not for any contest, as I no longer endorse "quest creation" competitions, it makes tension.

I'd also like to add I will have a half completed game ready by Nov 2002 for you to enjoy. That demo will be longer than the two longest quests currently available...and rest assured you've noticed my posting has slowed to a near halt at AGN recently...it's due to me working on this quest more than blabbing my mouth.

I also have that first quest remake being done.

On a defensive note, I do all my own beta testing and "analysis". That is why it takes so long. It does't matter how long it takes for a quest to come out, so long as it is worth the wait.

I'd also like to add, Sword of Oricon, the third custom quest to ever be completed, was completely bug free upon release. I ensure the quality of my products before release. That's why I hate demo's...unless you work hard on them and have a good demo (which I am doing).

I personally don't care, either. I'll make my quests. I'm sure you'll like them. Will they be the best quests ever? Probably not because I don't go all out in terms of using ZQuest's "tricks" to make elaborate schemes.

I will promise you a fun quest. That's all I ever promise.

[JayeM]

I agree with TSA about the elaborate tricks, and I don't release demos either. People were expecting great things of DoY so everyone wants to play it.

[StarFox]

My method is somewhat different from JayeM or TSA. I'm using all the home-brewed tricks I can come up with (as long as they make the quest better). And I believe I will release one demo, just to show everyone that my quest won't be the average quest. But only one demo. And like TSA, I do want to make the quest bug free when I release it. Which is why I recruited some of the best beta testers out there to help me. I don't want to release my quest until there's no way I can improve it.

And about people playing and enjoying your quest: it's not every day that a huge quest comes out. Let alone a huge quest with a bunch of ZQ tricks to make it unique. Hopefully that will change, and people will realize that using tricks isn't a bad thing. It's just time consuming, especially if you want it to come out bug-free.

-StarFox-

[C-Dawg]

Bug-free is great if you arnt leaving soon. I'm pressured to do it because of the attention, but in the end, it'll be time that determines that.

On another note, TSA... I dont think your half quest isn't longer than DoY. Not that it matters- quality is more important than length- but you havn't played through that particular quest, and since I've used all but one map... I doubt you've filled up 128 maps. I suppose you might be planning a two-qst file extravaganza or something, but unless you are...

-C

[StarFox]

Well, if time restricts you too much, there's nothing I can say except do what you feel like doing. Maybe you could give someone you trust an unpassworded version to finish your work and clean up any leftover bugs. Of course, I see a few drawbacks from this. First of all, they would have to have free time. Secondly, the person would have to know how to break the limits of ZQuest very well in order to understand why a bug is there in the first place. Another problem: if the workings of these tricks aren't orginized well, it can be hard to see exactly what you're doing, making it even harder to fix bugs. In the end, whatever you decide to do is your call (obviously).

[C-Dawg]

Thats something that I have thought about; unpasswording the quest and letting people run wild. You elucidate the problem pretty well though- anyone on these boards who would understand everything I do in the quest is advanced enough that they're out making their own ground-breaking quest. Plus, things are a bit messy sometimes. I guess DoY will just always have to be a second-rate quest. ;)

-C

[MottZilla]

You should get a list of bugs compiled atleast.

[C-Dawg]

Theres a problem with that, too.

Firstly, what constitutes a bug? Some people say if there is ever a way for link to get stuck (by pushing blocks incorrectly, for example) it's a bug- I dont think so. I call something a bug when something that clearly shouldnt happen happens- like Link getting stuck in the wall.

Secondly, some of these bugs- falling through a pit and landing in exactly the right place to get stuck between two blocks- are rare enough to be very hard to find but clearly fit the bill of bad things. It takes me like five seconds to fix most bugs, so it's really finding them that would be all the work anyway. :P

-C

[StarFox]

True. But then again, all the bugs aren't going to be fixed before people start completing this quest. Just think of this as a huge beta testing squad. Give unpassworded demos to a few people who know the program well, and as the bug reports come in from the public, these people can fix the bugs when they have time. If someone doesn't have time, it's OK, because you've sent it to a few people, and other people can fix the bugs. Pretty soon, you'll have a bug free quest from one of these people. As incentive to finish debugging it quickly, the person who finds the most bugs (or something to that effect) gets their name first and big in some kind of credits under "Bug Exterminators."

Just an idea.

[MottZilla]

C-Dawg, that's why when people play the game and run into a bug they can tell you were it is, what happens, and throw it on the list.

[Cronic]

My MGC quest isn't a quest... it's a tileset.

My actual quest which isn't dormant is just gonna be huge by design and being a beta tester doesn't help either due to all sorts of shifts I have to make in the quest itself...

Now if I weren't using a different combo page for practically every screen and were content with everything more or les blurring together I would have finished it last year, but the sad fact is that I'm perfectionist which means I may never be happy enough with my work to even release it =/

[The Silent Assassin]

My "half" game complete is 2 quest files long. I'd say Since mid June, I've spend at least 6 hours a day on this quest.

My LoZ Remake is nearly done, I'm just tweaking some areas, playing through it a few times to ensure it's bug free before it's October release.

[jman2050]

2 quest files? Darn. How will you link the two together.

On another note, I think the reason DoY gets so much attention si because first of all, it rocks. Second, it is probably the only truly completed quest to be released for a long time (completed in terms of gameplay. IMO if you can beat Ganon and end the quest without running into major bugs, then it is complete). I would REALLY love to see Tsa's quest though. THat will be something to remeber if it truly is good.