Now this bothers me (ML related)

[plith]

http://members.aol.com/princemsc/ml05.gif

Just what the hell is going on in this? I realize that a bunch of people are probably going to jump down my throat for saying this, but this is as outrageous as Celda. Now before people do jump down my throat, I am well aware of the following:

It is MSC's quest to do what he wants with it.
Lots of people just love Celda.
It is definitely different from most other quests.

But different doesn't mean it's any better, or even as good for that matter. To me it just looks like some plain, cartoonish drawings. Maybe I'm just the only one that has something of a problem with PrinceMSC's seeming need to have something so great and original that he gives up the nice old version of his tiles. (also, might I add, in an attempt to make my own work on Descendant seem pointless with an obviously superior set already released)

In advance, I'm sorry if I've overstepped the bounds of what I'm allowed to say, lest I actually offend someone. I just feel like I have to get my opinion across.

[Cyclone]

To me it just looks like some plain, cartoonish drawings.

And so does everything you do. Your point?


Maybe I'm just the only one that has something of a problem with PrinceMSC's seeming need to have something so great and original that he gives up the nice old version of his tiles.

And you spend so much time perfecting a father and son playing catch, yet knock on someone else for trying to be original. Do I smell something fishy here?

I'm not going to let a flame war of sorts stem here, so please don't spark one. I've spoken to PrinceMSC, who has no comment on this thread. But whatever he chooses to do is his business, not yours. He does good stuff, and you do good stuff, but I'm not going to choose a side in this discussion.

Cyclone

[Foxx]

I think that tile design kicks serious ass! I'd be in great shape if I had the time or skill to create something like that. ... Well, Link does look a little bit like a South Park character from a distance. But it goes with the rest of the tileset, and all in all a very good show.

[zfreak2004]

Plith it seems to me that you always need something to complain about. I LOVE the new tileset and it abviously took a lot of work on Prince's part.

[plith]

I'm terribly sorry; I mistook this for a forum of open discussion where I don't have to fear repression by the first moderator to come along. :eyebrow:

[JayeM]

I sorta like the trees...don't care much for the mountain or castle tiles.

[ZeldaLord]

My Only gripe is the torches are on during the day (looks really odd to me). Can't wait to see what it looks like animated. :drool: Also, Prince said it would be a very detailed and unique quest. This is N°1 on my list of "QUESTS I ABSOLUTLY MUST PLAY NOW OR I'LL GO MAD!!!! :banghead: ".:)

[Mod. Edit: you said the exact same thing twice in your post. See my post below.]

[EWild]

Well I like them, but are these from ML, then when is he realsing them to the public??

[Cyclone]

Originally posted by plith
I'm terribly sorry; I mistook this for a forum of open discussion where I don't have to fear repression by the first moderator to come along. :eyebrow:

I'm not trying to be repressing (is that a word??). I simply replied to your points, and said I don't want a fight developing over this. MSC has put a lot of hard work into his tileset, and here you walk in and bash him in front of everyone.

While commenting is in itself permittable, I hope you don't mind his many fans coming along to knock you down, point by point (again, without fighting).


Originally posted by ZeldaLord
My Only gripe is the torches are on during the day (looks really odd to me). Can't wait to see what it looks like animated. Also, Prince said it would be a very detailed and unique quest. This is N°1 on my list

This exact same text appeared twice in your post. I've taken the liberty of condensing the post such that it only appears once; I suspect it was a simple error on your part.

If any other mods. need to know, that text was followed by a copy of the exact same text, then a few extra words.

Cyclone

[ZeldaLord]

Woops:rolleyes:

Thanks Cyc!:)

[C-Dawg]

Not that anyone really cares if Plith doesnt like the ML tiles- I dont think anyone's gonna avoid them on account of his reccomendation. But take his criticism seriously, because he's basically right. The older ML screenshots I saw seemed (to me) 100 times better than this one. The problem? It's flat. There's too much empty solid space of color, especially on that castle wall. Where there is a value change, it occurs with one shade and only on the edges of things. Too few shades, too little shading.

What would improve it, in my mind, are just a few details- lets start with the wall. Notice how there is a shadow under the bricks on the top of the castle, cast down on the wall? It's very small, but it's there and doesnt make sense. There wouldnt be shadows there. It only serves to make the top rounded (which may be his intention) The torch, bricks sticking out of the side of the wall, and window would all be casting small shadows below them. You might also consider making tiles that look like the tree is casting a shadow on the wall behind it. Finally, the castle looks like it's just sort of occupying the same space as the ground... you need some sort of design along the ground level. You could make it a sort of rectangular design that runs along the castle on the ground level and juts out a few inches from the bottom (you see these in your house at the joint between floor and wall... what are they called? Dammit, I forgot. Anyway, this is what the LttP castle tiles do. R2 castles do it as well.) or maybe just make some wall tiles with grass or flowers poking up a bit. Something to make it look like it's actually SITTING there.

Second, the other stuff- it's also flat. In general the designs are good, but maybe one could look into changing the light source from immediatly above and in front of everything to off to the side. This, and another tone of green, would let you redo that flat-looking tree design with a series of nested oval shapes of decreasing brightness.. that will make the tufts look "poofy". The mountains seem flat too. All the mountain tiles that look substantial, from R2 to LttP, used a series of shaded horizontal slates to give the illusion of depth. If you're not using them, you can accomplish the same effect by making at least three layers of mountain tiles for near the ground- unify the bottom one with the ground in some way, by making a broader base or some pokey grass as disucessed above, and make this tile in the darkest shade of brown. Then make other tiles with increasingly light shades of brown, till the top which should curve over with the lightest. You might also wanna have three sets of mountain tiles with slightly different designs. And (This is just my opinon) consider making the sides of the mountain two tiles wide instead of one so it can "bend" instead of harshly turning north.

Again, set looks fine the way it is, but this is, I believe, the technical basis for Plith's complaint. And most of these are why he's correct when he says that most of Descendant DOES look better than those few screens. Its just not as original. ;)

-C

[DarkSFK]

I personnaly liked the old ML tiles much better, they mixed some of the games together, then had some custom tiles. I liked it that the mtns were GBC ish, and the water was LttP ish, and so on.

[ZeldaLord]

Originally posted by C-Dawg
Not that anyone really cares if Plith doesnt like the ML tiles- I dont think anyone's gonna avoid them on account of his reccomendation. But take his criticism seriously, because he's basically right. The older ML screenshots I saw seemed (to me) 100 times better than this one. The problem? It's flat. There's too much empty solid space of color, especially on that castle wall. Where there is a value change, it occurs with one shade and only on the edges of things. Too few shades, too little shading.

What would improve it, in my mind, are just a few details- lets start with the wall. Notice how there is a shadow under the bricks on the top of the castle, cast down on the wall? It's very small, but it's there and doesnt make sense. There wouldnt be shadows there. It only serves to make the top rounded (which may be his intention) The torch, bricks sticking out of the side of the wall, and window would all be casting small shadows below them. You might also consider making tiles that look like the tree is casting a shadow on the wall behind it. Finally, the castle looks like it's just sort of occupying the same space as the ground... you need some sort of design along the ground level. You could make it a sort of rectangular design that runs along the castle on the ground level and juts out a few inches from the bottom (you see these in your house at the joint between floor and wall... what are they called? Dammit, I forgot. Anyway, this is what the LttP castle tiles do. R2 castles do it as well.) or maybe just make some wall tiles with grass or flowers poking up a bit. Something to make it look like it's actually SITTING there.

Second, the other stuff- it's also flat. In general the designs are good, but maybe one could look into changing the light source from immediatly above and in front of everything to off to the side. This, and another tone of green, would let you redo that flat-looking tree design with a series of nested oval shapes of decreasing brightness.. that will make the tufts look "poofy". The mountains seem flat too. All the mountain tiles that look substantial, from R2 to LttP, used a series of shaded horizontal slates to give the illusion of depth. If you're not using them, you can accomplish the same effect by making at least three layers of mountain tiles for near the ground- unify the bottom one with the ground in some way, by making a broader base or some pokey grass as disucessed above, and make this tile in the darkest shade of brown. Then make other tiles with increasingly light shades of brown, till the top which should curve over with the lightest. You might also wanna have three sets of mountain tiles with slightly different designs. And (This is just my opinon) consider making the sides of the mountain two tiles wide instead of one so it can "bend" instead of harshly turning north.

Again, set looks fine the way it is, but this is, I believe, the technical basis for Plith's complaint. And most of these are why he's correct when he says that most of Descendant DOES look better than those few screens. Its just not as original. ;)

-C

Hey, don't judge them too harshly(sp?), C-Dawg!
Remember that PrinceMSC has only just created these tiles so they won't be finished yet. I also assume he's keeping some suprises for us ;) (he hinted so in PureZC).

[*b*]

I like the castle tiles, and the trees

[plith]

Welp, sorry to PrinceMSC, but for something else. This was supposed to be the prelude to some nice good fun at the expense of anyone who chose to take sides. Because MSC and I were supposed to start bickering and name-calling and keeping it just short of ban-worthy flaming. But he hasn't responded yet to this part and I'm just not in the mood to carry out my part of it anyways. So oh well. Take the criticism whichever way you want it, and as a nice subject of debating (though C-Dawg's done pretty much one whole side of the debating). I still say I liked the old ones better, but that's me.