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C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 12:15 AM
http://www.zelda-gaming.com/azc/uploads/zelda033.bmp

It's a dungeon Dmap... and yet all the doors function perfectly. Well, not QUITE perfectly- at least one of the doors you emerge from after going through either of the two doors on the northern edge of the room must be a 1-way shutter. Other than that, it works like a charm. Just use stair combos with scroll warps ;)

-C

Qale
03-14-2002, 01:10 AM
"Two Doors, One Wall" -- the new hit sitcom on the new WB! Friday nights this fall aren't going to be the same when you watch the halarious antics of Two Doors and One Wall!

PS: That's a mighty fine looking screen shot you got there.

Qale

DarkFlameWolf
03-14-2002, 03:49 AM
taking advantage of the north wall I see, and on a first date too!

C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 09:05 AM
THOSE are the kind of responces I want to have! :D

K-Teclis
03-14-2002, 10:27 AM
Two doors on upper wall??
That's new to me.... But full freeform dungeons are possible with warps...

DarkFlameWolf
03-14-2002, 10:51 AM
not really new to me, just need about 4 dmaps I should think to pull it off.

Cyclone
03-14-2002, 12:30 PM
Since this does not pertain to a specific quest - and more to a ZQuest trick - this thread now lives in ZC Quest Editor Help.

On-topic note: nice. :) And shutters are needed for the reason that Link would otherwise be appearing in a spot above the tile warp behind the door.

Cyclone
[email protected]

C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 03:15 PM
Not... exactly, Cyclone. You've correctly identified the problem, but there is a solution. For those who dont follow him, the way it works is like this. You'll notice the upper wall is moved down one tile from the top of the screen. Link can walk into the doors this way. Once he's inside, he hits a stair combo set to a scrolling warp, which takes him up and pops him out on the 3rd combo from the bottom of the screen above as normal. This avoids the upper screen limit, so going up is no problem whatsoever. The problem one encounters is going back down. Theres no barrier on the south of the screen, so Link is free to walk down, but when he does this he ends up two tiles below the top of the screen; which lands him smack in the doorway, behind the stair warp, and there's no way for him to get back into the room.

The solution, then, is to use a stair warp on the north screen's south wall ALSO, and use the green/blue placement flags to determine Link's exit point. This means you cant allow him to go down through two different places on the northern screen, because they would both emerge in the same place. So, one of the doors he emerges from must be a 1-way shutter to prevent this.

Darky : Nope, it only uses one Dmap.

-C

DarkFlameWolf
03-14-2002, 04:17 PM
okay, gotcha, but if you WANTED Link to have freedom of movement and have two passages going out the SOUTH wall, you'd have to do multiple dmaps.

C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 04:42 PM
This is true.

As with every "fix" for limitations of ZC, there is some give and some take with each solution. The multiple Dmap solution screws with the minimap.. and thats ok, I do it alot. I prefer not to use more Dmaps when avoidable, because it shifts the annoyance from the player to the designer- and if you design it well, the player will never notice the limitations.

-C

DarkFlameWolf
03-14-2002, 08:11 PM
you mean the big map in the subscreen, not the one in the upper left corner. If you make all the dmaps have the same rooms, the players won't know the difference in the upper left.

C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 08:14 PM
No, I mean the minimap too; though you are correct. You have to make sure the relative coordinates are the same or the player will see the little white dot jumping all over the place.

Frankly, in my quest I've gotten lazy with this and no longer care if the player sees the little white dot in wierd places. Its too tiresome to always make the player appear in the right spot; and since I'm currently pushing 130 Dmaps, I cant afford to use too many more to get those sort of effects.

-C

Nick
03-14-2002, 09:34 PM
I did something similar a few days ago in Days of Eternity. It was after I found out about that scroll warp with tile warping in another thread. Though my wall has 3 northern doors. The only problem I find (with the way I set it up) is if Link decides to walk to the door from the left or right, he will end up in a messed up position in the next room. I avoided that by placing blocks on the sides of the doors. Also, there is a fade to black effect in the warp.

Here's a screenshot:

http://invis.free.anonymizer.com/http://www.angelfire.com/games4/nick41472/eternity/trick.gif

Why is that walking left or right onto the warp a problem? You can not walk on the north wall, so I had to put the warps in front of the doors.

Edit: I know I could move the wall down a tile, but it would ruin the way I have things setup and I'd be doing some complicated stuff for no reason. Anyway, there is no need to come back down as this is a "one chance" pathway. Of course, the actual door to choose is obvious. :)

C-Dawg
03-14-2002, 10:09 PM
Nice.

In answer to your question, the reason that approaching the warp from the sides is a problem is that the Scrolling Warp relies on the direction Link is moving to determine which way the scroll goes and where Link ends up. But you dont need to put blocks there to stop it- just make sure that only the middle door combo is walkable.

-C

DarkFlameWolf
03-14-2002, 10:40 PM
hmmm, laziness many times equates to a bad product. I suggest you stop being lazy and fix all those white dot jumpers! It'll make your game more professional feeling and furthermore, less confuse the more newbie players who come play your quest. :laughing:

Nick
03-14-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by C-Dawg
Nice.

In answer to your question, the reason that approaching the warp from the sides is a problem is that the Scrolling Warp relies on the direction Link is moving to determine which way the scroll goes and where Link ends up. But you dont need to put blocks there to stop it- just make sure that only the middle door combo is walkable.

-C

Me and my sloppy typing. :rolleyes:

I was going to answer my own question in the post, but I forgot to. I already knew why it did it. That, however, is a good suggestion. I think I'll do that.

The way I've done this, no dots jump around, but my "elevator" in this level is a different story...

C-Dawg
03-15-2002, 05:03 PM
"hmmm, laziness many times equates to a bad product. "

The same could be said of rushing...

DarkFlameWolf
03-15-2002, 07:19 PM
yes, but speediness does not always equate to bad quality. However laziness does. :P

Verbatim
03-20-2002, 04:14 AM
I've solved my white dot problems and subscreen map problems for good. How? I set the color of Link's location to black, and selected a blank area in the tileset for the dungeon map scroll ( (Link's location still shows up (in black) on the tan overworld map scroll). I also set both the big map foreground and background to be the same as the subscreen background color.

That means no more confusing signals to the player...the drawback being that if you have some more normal levels for which you have a working map, you have to kiss that working map goodbye.

A fix for this bug has definately made it to the top of my ZC wishlist. It makes working with the wonderful new pit combos much more difficult.