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Thread: Half-Tile Trick Accessable by main menu for pre-2.10 quests

  1. #1
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Half-Tile Trick Accessable by main menu for pre-2.10 quests

    @Gleeok @DarkDragon @ZoriaRPG

    I know we've been working on backwards compatibility a bit, but one of the things that really bothers me is the removal of the half-tile trick from pre-2.10 quests. If we are going all the way with fixing backwards compatibility to the point that we are even making item tables for the 1st and 2nd Quest, then the half-tile trick should definitely be in everything. It is also a well-known part of speedruns now, and it's been highly recognized by everybody who plays LoZ on NES.

    It's been brought to attention that because of lack of knowledge at the time, pre 2.10 quests do not have this option for them. Personally, I do not want this option forced, and do not want to update every single quest version I ever made to 2.53 just to have this change implemented into something that essentially enhances and helps quests be more possible and less cheap. It adds to skill and strategy and think it should not be totally removed.

    Comment away.

    -James

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  2. #2
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    Gleeok's Avatar
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    Nightmare, I have a few things to say about this:

    Firstly, the"half tile trick" is a pretty lame way to play quests. Let's be honest here -- it's practically cheating. So you can beat all older quests much easier using this bug since eweapons can never hurt Link if he's on a half-tile? Great. Do you feel proud of yourself? You shouldn't.

    Secondly, all ZC versions from 1.00 up to 2.5 beta 18 rev. (200-ish?) didn't have this behavior until _L_ put in an NES consistency fix for it -- but forgot the quest rule -- meaning that every single older quest had the capacity to break (e.g. requiring the player to reflect magic to hit a switch from a half-tile to trigger secrets, or Armageddon Quest as another example of breaking a quest). The only reason it's gone on this long is because somehow it got changed in the code to do the opposite! for older quests! All my personal ZC builds since 2.50 rc3 fix this bug yet some of the released versions were somehow different. This is the only reason it's been unnoticed recently (my 2.50 build works fine!). It's now fixed in all branches.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    something that essentially enhances and helps quests be more possible and less cheap
    I rest my case. Justify it all you like, but most people don't want an exploit in their quests that makes it super easy to beat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    but one of the things that really bothers me is the removal of the half-tile trick from pre-2.10 quests. If we are going all the way with fixing backwards compatibility to the point that we are even making item tables for the 1st and 2nd Quest, then the half-tile trick should definitely be in everything
    You have it backwards. To maintain compatibility we must have it for older quests. It never existed in older quests which is the point. The NES quests have it enabled, but nothing else should. You can change it to whatever you like in your own quests though.
    This post contains the official Gleeok™ seal of approval. Look for these and other posts in an area near you.

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    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    The point is @Gleeok , it's a part of the game. It's a part of the NES game for God's sakes. If you change it now, it's like for example taking invincible Shoryukens out of Street Fighter (which they had balls to do in SFV). It's a good way to piss off that play the game, and makes it feel less like Zelda 1.

    For the LttP quests and maybe the LA quests, point taken. But I make a lot of Zelda 1 variants. I really prefer to have it in there, it's a part of the style and the play. Imagine if the Slash was forced on you in a game, you couldn't get rid of it, etc. etc. (knowing you). Would you play it very seriously outside of casual?

    Taking this out without a rule/option takes out an entire playstyle and a very important part of the game. It's not a good call.

    -James

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  4. #4
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    It's a quest rule. It's been a quest rule for 10 years now. >_>



    Firstly, the"half tile trick" is a pretty lame way to play quests. Let's be honest here -- it's practically cheating. So you can beat all older quests much easier using this bug since eweapons can never hurt Link if he's on a half-tile? Great. Do you feel proud of yourself? You shouldn't.
    Sorry, this sounded jerk-ish. I didn't mean you specifically, but anyone who is purposely guilty of this while playing quests that weren't designed with a half-tile exploit in mind. (You know who you are) This doesn't apply to most casual quests though to be fair.
    Last edited by Gleeok; 09-03-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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